Should increased civilian education be compensated at the senior NCO levels since it is becoming a requirement for promotion?

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 14:32:23 -0500

Looking at the command structures many officers have senior
NCO's working hand in hand with Company or even field grade officers. The
understanding used to be that the Officers have degrees and sometimes advanced degrees
which are one of the reasons they were chosen to be an officer. However now
that more and more NCO's are not only getting degrees but advanced degrees
shouldn't there be increased compensation for them at the senior NCO levels?

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Jan 24 at 2014 2:47 PM

CW2 Joseph Evans — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 14:47:46 -0500

No, the promotion requires the education (more or less) and the NCO is afforded the opportunity to achieve it with sponsorship to reduce the cost via tuition assistance and through transferable credits through junior colleges and associated programs.

As for the compensation, the reason for the the assumed responsibility. Even by today's standard, the Commander is going to get hit harder for a Command team SNAFU than the 1SG will. That is what the Officer is getting compensated for, the risk he assumes.

That being said, we do a damn poor job of holding people's feet to the fire, both SNCO and Officers very rarely see appropriate punishment for dereliction of duty, Soldier abuse and other issues.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2014 3:03 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 15:03:20 -0500

I agree with Chief. As a NCO getting a degree is more of a stepping stone, while not required is it recommended. Our tuition assistance has been shaky over the last year because of the the budget cut, so getting a degree out of pocket looks excellent to the board. It shows that you are willing to take the extra time and spend the money to get ahead.
How many senior leadership positions in the civilian world are there that don't require a degree? Do any of them get compensated?

Response by CMC Robert Young made Jan 24 at 2014 3:39 PM

CMC Robert Young — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 15:39:01 -0500

If it's a requirement for the position, then there shouldn't be any extra compensation. The compensation comes by getting promoted to the job. It's just part of a service member's professional development as are any number of other requirements we all meet in order to be considered for promotion.

The more appropriate question might be "If it's a requirement, then how does the service support the individual in the pursuit of the requirement?" In almost all cases, if the member is required to obtain a skill or attend a career development course, then there is a protocol or vehicle by which the military facilitates that education. The Navy & Coast Guard call them C Schools. Why not also a program to assist the member with the requirement for a degree if it is tied to qualifying for promotion?

Response by CSM Mike Maynard made Jan 29 at 2014 7:28 AM

CSM Mike Maynard — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 07:28:07 -0500

No Sir.

Civilian Education is not a requirement for promotion.

It could be a tie-breaker if two NCOs records are the same, but it'll never be the reason we select someone for promotion.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2014 11:24 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 11:24:45 -0500

Thank you all for your replies. I had this discussion with a senior NCO the other day and his opinion was... well lets just say it was not in line with the four of you. I could see a point for expanding pay at some of the hirer levels but from what I remember from my time in the NCO Corps its more about the experience and knowledge each NCO gets on the job than it is about what they can get in school.

Thanks again.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Feb 17 at 2014 6:13 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Mon, 17 Feb 2014 18:13:26 -0500

I think a better move would be to get all NCOES Accredited through ACE. With all the mandatory training, distance learning, SSD's, and countless certifications we earn, there's no reason why military education itself shouldn't be worth at least an associates...

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2014 7:28 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Feb 2014 19:28:17 -0500

My Branch (Ordnance Corps) DA PAM 600-25 says I should have completed an AA/AS as SSG and a BA/BS as MSG as promotion indicator. By the standard rank progression tables, I would have 8 years to make 60 hours into a degree and another 8 or more to make it into a 120 hour degree. By the new rules, I can draw TA from one year after AIT-to-Army report date, so that makes it six years to make a degree in some MOS.

Everyone had plenty of compensation available each fiscal year and it has gotten progressively easier. If you don't have a four year degree by the time the MSG board rolls around, maybe it's time for some soul searching.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2014 6:44 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Aug 2014 18:44:42 -0400

If education is a requirement for promotion, then that is your reward.