Should I contact the Installation Commander? Security Forces Dormitory Airmen have been without hot water to shower for over two years.

2016-03-11T13:19:38-05:00

I have been stationed at Ramstein AB for over 3 years now and there is a continuing concerning problem. Airmen are without hot water to take showers. They have have been told they can move to another dorm if they want hot water, or they need to use the gym. However there is limited availability in the other buildings and the vacancies in the substandard building just get refilled by newcomers. Security Forces leadership all the way to the top know about the problem but have failed to correct it for over two years. I know if I tell my leadership that I want to talk to the installation CC it will go very poorly but if I don't tell them then even worse things will happen. What can be done for these Airmen?

Response by CSM David Heidke made Mar 11 at 2016 1:34 PM

2016-03-11T13:34:24-05:00

The Installation Sergeant Major Air Force equivalent. And your congressleach.

Response by SPC James Dollins made Mar 11 at 2016 1:34 PM

2016-03-11T13:34:47-05:00

IG? If the IG doesn't work, the command should have an open door policy. I would use that & keep going until someone listens. You shouldn't be afraid of retaliation. I do understand how you feel about this though.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2016 1:35 PM

2016-03-11T13:35:10-05:00

I with SMSgt, Thomas, plus everyone should have copies of truble calls to PW. I would contact PW and tyr to talk to a US Prime Beef guy and see if he can track it dwon. The problem is there my not be Active Military Prime Beef Civil Engineering oversight at the trouble desk. I am a Seebee and we operate PW the same way you need to find or your Chain Of

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2016 1:38 PM

2016-03-11T13:38:02-05:00

1. Is there a history of work orders being submitted to DPW requesting for them to come out and assess/fix the issue? If not, have you tried calling them yourself?
2. Have you spoken with your leadership about it? If they ignore you or tell you to "go scratch", I suggest submitting an ICE complaint or going to IG about the issue. Both of those avenues will end up involving the Garrison CDR, thereby bringing this issue to his/her attention. ICE complaints can be submitted anonymously if you're worried about retribution...

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2016 1:46 PM

2016-03-11T13:46:07-05:00

Wow. Go to your First Sgt and your SFS manager. Tell them your next stop is the Command Chief and Commander's Support Staff.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 11 at 2016 1:47 PM

2016-03-11T13:47:40-05:00

1) Command Chief Master Sergeant Open Door Policy if one exists. Yours then Installation. Nothing works better than "Chief, got a second? I've got a problem that I don't know how to deal with."

2) If #1 doesn't work, Hotline.

3) If #2 & #1 doesn't work, IG

4) If #3, #2, & #1 doesn't work, Congressional.

Response by SPC David S. made Mar 11 at 2016 1:48 PM

2016-03-11T13:48:00-05:00

E4 Mafia solution - blow up the barracks. They'll be forced fix the problem plus no paper work. Just saying gas leaks happen.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Mar 11 at 2016 2:15 PM

2016-03-11T14:15:39-05:00

Yes. That is disgraceful. Keep it anonymous.

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Mar 11 at 2016 2:19 PM

2016-03-11T14:19:00-05:00

Sounds like an issue for the IG.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Mar 11 at 2016 2:19 PM

2016-03-11T14:19:01-05:00

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member If the chain of command is aware of it and has done nothing, they should be relieved. I suspect they have reported the problem but have not taken the necessary action to get it taken care of. Any commander worth his/her salt would be raising hell with the installation commander to get it corrected.

If you have, in fact, taken it up with your chain of command and nothing has been done about it, I would certainly see the Senior Enlisted person at the installation or the Installation Commander, the IG, or write my Congressman... or all of the above.

Response by Lt Col Timothy Parker, DBA made Mar 11 at 2016 2:23 PM

2016-03-11T14:23:55-05:00

I'd suggest asking your First Shirt to talk with the CE squadron's First Shirt to see what the underlying issue is (or go to your First Shirt to your commander to the CE squadron commander). There has to be some unusual issue going on for it to last so long without resolution. If there appears to be foot dragging, then you have a real reason to contact the IG - but I'd give the First Shirts a chance to resolve it first. Just my humble opinion (noting that I was a CE Squadron Commander at one time).

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Mar 11 at 2016 2:37 PM

2016-03-11T14:37:30-05:00

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member if the problem is known all the way to the top, but remains un addressed, then the IG should know. That at least would light a fire under somebody's ass.

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Mar 11 at 2016 3:06 PM

2016-03-11T15:06:30-05:00

What is this "Hot Shower" that you speak of? Seriuosly though it sounds like you are having a problem with a particular building. Im not an Engineer but it shouldnt take much to figure out a fix.

Response by Maj John Bell made Mar 11 at 2016 3:19 PM

2016-03-11T15:19:16-05:00

If your ducks are really lined up in a row, contact you senator and representative.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Mar 11 at 2016 3:36 PM

2016-03-11T15:36:03-05:00

You have the right to go to your installation IG without reprisal. If you have worked it through your chain of command then that would be my next step. It will launch an inquiry and may get it fixed. If that doesn't workthen contact your congressman...try the IG first but don't give up.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2016 3:44 PM

2016-03-11T15:44:18-05:00

My first thought was that the CE work order desk clerk was given a ticket. Sorry.

Really, this is unacceptable, and if there is in fact a problem that can not be dealt with all in the loop should have been informed.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Mar 11 at 2016 3:51 PM

2016-03-11T15:51:45-05:00

A lot of good suggestions herein. Pls get back with RP mbrs when the situation is either resolved or action being taken. Hard to believe in this day and age such a situation would be allowed to exist for so long..Who is sitting on this and why. Best bet is to remain anonymous else you suffer for your troubles.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Mar 11 at 2016 4:00 PM

2016-03-11T16:00:54-05:00

One night at Ft Hood I performed my Staff Duty Officer duties. Many arms room and motor pool checks. I had a SOP checklist and I wrote that dinner was not very good. I walked by the battalion barracks and noticed many soldiers outside at 10 PM. I asked if they were having a party, to which they replied, the AC was broken, and this was in August. I went into the building and it was 90 degrees plus in there. I wrote the deficiency down, and met with the battalion commander, to which he replied what the eff can I do about it. I was a little aghast at his message. Next day I see him leading the CG through the barracks and realized I had a leader who cared. We are still friends today.

Response by SSgt Obom Bowen made Mar 11 at 2016 5:06 PM

2016-03-11T17:06:24-05:00

it's Completely UNSAT. Isn't there a BEQ equivalent manager? TSgt Private RallyPoint Member

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Mar 11 at 2016 6:11 PM

2016-03-11T18:11:04-05:00

Go see the Wing IG. You have the right to talk with the IG without retribution.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Mar 11 at 2016 8:00 PM

2016-03-11T20:00:39-05:00

Cold shower, dam we had those and salt peter in the 70's, guess what it did not work.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2016 9:41 PM

2016-03-11T21:41:36-05:00

If your worried about possible blow back from your command, you can call the Action Line and remain anonymous. If your not worried, then you can go to the Command Chief.

Response by SFC Everett Oliver made Mar 11 at 2016 9:46 PM

2016-03-11T21:46:42-05:00

I'm sorry, has the military slipped this far that a senior NCO can't make things happen to take care of their troops? Never would you have heard of any situation like this while i was on active duty.... If Sergeants couldn't make it happen then it simply couldn't be done, but health and welfare of the troops was always number one and always taken care of....

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2016 4:14 AM

2016-03-12T04:14:40-05:00

IG IG IG

Response by SSgt Chris Shultz made Mar 12 at 2016 11:33 AM

2016-03-12T11:33:34-05:00

Take care of the troops, thats what that 4th stripe is for. Its not about the extra pay. If your leadership doesnt have any negatives then you havent been a vocal enough advocate for your direct subordinates and their wingmen

Response by Capt Tj Feeley made Mar 12 at 2016 3:24 PM

2016-03-12T15:24:57-05:00

Contact the force support operations officer or chief.

Response by COL John Hudson made Mar 13 at 2016 6:05 AM

2016-03-13T06:05:32-04:00

From the IG Desk: Report this issue to your local Inspector General. Thoroughly document the problem, ensuring your report is complete with appropriate detail, chronologically stated, and dispassionate. If you feel any sort of retaliation may occur, you may make such a report anonymously via letter or phone. Be aware the results of any investigation will not be returned to you. If the issue is substantiated, corrective action will be seen by observing that the problem has been corrected.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2016 8:39 AM

2016-03-13T08:39:15-04:00

I would call CE Customer Service to check on the status of the work order and to ensure a work order does exist for the issue. Many times with issues like this someone assumes that it has already been addressed with CE when in fact no one called it in. I would also talk to the Dorm Leader to ensure they are tracking the issue and have called in the work orders. If that fails address it either with the CE 1st shirt or CE commander. As mentioned before the commander's action line is also a great resource.

Response by MSgt Wayne Morris made Mar 13 at 2016 9:34 AM

2016-03-13T09:34:18-04:00

First I would find it almost impossible to believe a dorm has gone without hot water for 3 years or can I assume that this has been a problem that has reoccurred many times over the 3 year period? That said, start with the 1st Sgt and if you are not happy with his response request an appointment with the CC. Still don't feel that issue is being taken care of in a serious matter then the next stop is the IG's office. Document your concerns in a professional matter and offer to leave a copy such after speaking with those people. If they say they will get back to you, insist on a firm date as to when and follow up as required. Nothing happens, then you have other routes to take and if you feel there might be retaliation still press forward because that is what you are paid to do and anyone in the leadership position would be committing career suicide by doing such.

Response by TSgt Ray Rock made Mar 13 at 2016 11:46 AM

2016-03-13T11:46:08-04:00

I agree with the suggestions Senior Enlisted, IG, and then congress.

It sounds like they’re probably aware of the issue since it’s been several years and the repair is expensive, so it never gets done.

One time I worked in a building that was repurposed several times over the years and they put up walls to close off half the building. One half had great AC, in the other half the AC didn’t work very well. They said the only way to fix it was to replace the entire unit and it was an expensive repair, so we were stuck with the bad AC.

During the next unit reorganization they moved a few civilian GS types into the building. They opened a work order and got the same response, then they filed a grievance with their union and the AC unit was replaced 2 weeks later.

Response by CPO Bill Penrod made Mar 13 at 2016 12:29 PM

2016-03-13T12:29:24-04:00

Get you orders Stamp Inadequate Quarters. Then live out in town on the Navy's dime.

Response by CPO Bill Penrod made Mar 13 at 2016 12:34 PM

2016-03-13T12:34:12-04:00

Get your orders stamped "Inadequate Quarters" then live out in town on the Air Force's dime. You're been there three years and just now deciding to do something about it. I do wish you luck.......

Response by LTC Donell Kelly made Mar 13 at 2016 3:07 PM

2016-03-13T15:07:40-04:00

This is a public health problem. Lack of hot water for washing leads to an increase in disease & illness. Prevention by providing hot water is just common sense. Rammstein certainly has a public health person/section, probably headed by a doc or a nurse. Try that avenue, and usually that brings you into the medical side of the command structure. Also, do any of those Airmen serve at LRMC? If so, it also can be connected to the public health person at LRMC, who was a LTC when I was there. You might gather some sick call data on those troops before hand, as well.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2016 5:40 PM

2016-03-13T17:40:17-04:00

Yes

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2016 5:54 PM

2016-03-13T17:54:11-04:00

Two things. First we do what our careers can handle. Second and more importantly we are NCO's (regardless of branch of service) and we are obligated to take care of our troops.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2016 9:48 PM

2016-03-13T21:48:07-04:00

You know, the first thing that jumps out at me is this statement you make: "I know if I tell my leadership that I want to talk to the installation CC it will go very poorly" You are an NCO, you have airmen that need to be taken care of. TAKE CARE OF THEM. Nothing else matters. TAKE CARE OF YOUR AIRMEN, SSGT! You accepted that stripe, now you are expected to use the authority that comes with it. If you have to take a hit, so be it. Go down fighting for your Airmen and they will walk to the very gates of h3ll for you. The first thing I would suggest is to re-read the NCO Creed and then ruck up and go see the Command Chief.

Response by SFC Clark Adams made Mar 14 at 2016 12:25 AM

2016-03-14T00:25:50-04:00

Why has it taken this long for you to speak up? It seems to be the Base Commander and the Senior NCO's haven't done their duties.....

Response by MSgt James Mullis made Mar 14 at 2016 11:01 AM

2016-03-14T11:01:40-04:00

I'm going to disagree with most of the comments I've read here. I absolutely would not recommend going to either the IG or the Wing Commander's office over this. That is unless you are ready to end your career in the Security Forces and/or the Air Force.

Second, I highly doubt that all of the NCO's and officers in your chain of command for the last three years are so uncaring that they have completely ignored a basic comfort issue for their Airmen. There is certainly much more to the story than you know and/or have relayed in your post.

If you haven't already, I would start by talking to the dorm manager. I'm sure he or she would be more than happy to relay in detail their hot water problems. My guess is you'll get a long list of CE work order numbers with completion dates and follow-up dates. I would also guess that this is an old building and CE is constantly repairing the boiler using band aid type fixes while hoping for funding for either a new dorm or a new boiler. Welcome to the Air Force, that's basically how the system works. A boiler that periodically breaks down a lot is not the same thing as not having hot water for three years. It may also be that the building actually does have hot water most of the time, but it runs out during peak shower times (just before or after shifts). This is a "nuisance" but again it is not the same thing as the building having "no hot water at all".

If you do think that the dorm manager is somehow failing in his duties. I would then go talk to his supervisor, the 1st Sergeant, and ask him what's up. Be positive and ask if there is anything that "you" and/or the rest of the squadron NCOs can do to help.

Response by Col Randy Hagan made Mar 14 at 2016 11:25 AM

2016-03-14T11:25:52-04:00

This quality of life issue is a chain of command issue. Other replies (and I support them) suggest First Sgt, Commander, Senior Enlisted Adviser/Command Chief MSgt, USAFE Command Chief. This situation is disgraceful, regardless of reason.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2016 11:27 AM

2016-03-14T11:27:23-04:00

Hell, just PM commands number and I'll report it. Screw them.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2016 2:44 PM

2016-03-14T14:44:13-04:00

After a lot of thought about this. I have to refer to the Enlisted Force Structure, AFI36-2618

"2.1.2. NCO Tier: This tier consists of Staff Sergeant and Technical Sergeant. The primary focus in
this tier is mission accomplishment. NCOs continue occupational growth and become expert
technicians. At the same time, NCOs develop as leaders, supervisors, managers, and mentors.
Additionally, NCOs must ensure they keep themselves and subordinate personnel trained, qualified,
and ready to deploy and operate in an expeditionary environment while maintaining home station
readiness. In this tier, NCOs also continue to develop institutional competencies in preparation for
increased responsibilities while continuing to broaden technical skills and pursuing professional
development through on- and off-duty education.

2.1.3. SNCO Tier: This tier consists of Master Sergeant, Senior Master Sergeant, and Chief Master Sergeant. The primary focus in this tier is mission accomplishment. SNCOs serve as leaders,
supervisors, managers, and mentors to further develop junior enlisted Airmen and NCOs under their
charge to maximize their leadership abilities. In this tier, SNCOs continue building institutional
competencies. Additionally, SNCOs must ensure they keep themselves and subordinate personnel
trained, qualified, and ready to deploy and operate in an expeditionary environment while
maintaining home station readiness. SNCOs have a great deal of experience and leadership ability
that can be used to leverage resources and personnel against a variety of mission requirements.
SNCOs participate in decision making processes on a variety of technical, operational, and
organizational issues.

General NCO Responsibilities: 4.1.1. Accept and execute all duties, instructions, responsibilities, and lawful orders in a timely and efficient manner.

5.2. Specific SNCO Responsibilities.
5.2.1. Master Sergeant (MSgt). MSgts are transitioning from being technical experts and first line
supervisors to leaders of operational competence skilled at merging subordinates’ talents, skills, and
resources with other teams' functions to most effectively accomplish the mission. They continue to
develop their leadership and management skills. This rank carries significantly increased
responsibilities and requires a broad technical and managerial perspective. MSgt-selects should
immediately enroll in and complete the AFSNCOA by distance learning in preparation for their new
roles. The SNCO Joint PME is also recommended for those preparing for joint assignments. MSgts
should complete the CCAF degree in their current Air Force Specialty Code (AFSC), if not already
earned. As senior enlisted leaders, they must reflect the highest qualities of a leader and
professional. MSgts normally operate at the operational competence level of leadership. The
official term of address is Master Sergeant or Sergeant.

5.2.2. Senior Master Sergeant (SMSgt). SMSgts are key, experienced, operational leaders skilled at
merging their subordinates’ talents, skills, and resources with other teams' functions to most
effectively accomplish the mission. SMSgts continue to develop their leadership and management
skills in preparation for expanded responsibilities and higher leadership positions. SMSgts should
complete the AFSNCOA if not already completed. SNCO Joint PME is also recommended for those
preparing for joint assignments. SMSgts should complete the CCAF degree in their current AFSC,
if not already earned. As senior enlisted leaders, SMSgts must reflect the highest qualities of a
leader and professional. SMSgts normally operate at the operational competence or strategic vision
level of leadership. The official term of address is Senior Master Sergeant or Sergeant. NOTE:
“Senior” is not an appropriate term of address for SMSgts.

5.2.3. Chief Master Sergeant (CMSgt). CMSgt is the highest enlisted rank. Within this grade, the
Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force (CMSAF) is the most senior ranking. Since its inception, the
grade of CMSgt has evolved to hold a very distinctive role in the force. CMSgts serve as key leaders
at all levels in the Air Force from flight-level to Air Staff. They serve as commandants,
superintendents, program managers, command chief master sergeants, functional managers, and
career field managers. CMSgts must epitomize the finest qualities of a military leader. CMSgts
bring substantial operational and occupational experience as well as strong institutional skills to their
organizations and all assigned tasks. CMSgts must strive to further develop their leadership and
management skills to better prepare them for future roles. As key mentors, they must deliberately
develop subordinates into enlisted leaders of the future. CMSgts are assigned a chief enlisted
manager code upon selection to CMSgt and may be selected to fill leadership or managerial
positions in a variety of duties not prohibited by law or directive. All newly selected, active duty
CMSgts will be selected to attend the CMSgt Leadership Course. AFRC and ANG CMSgts apply
for attendance through their commands. CMSgts normally operate at the operational competence
and strategic vision levels of leadership, depending on assignment. The official term of address is
Chief Master Sergeant or Chief.

6.1.7. First Sergeant. First sergeants provide a dedicated focal point for all readiness, health,
morale, welfare, and quality of life issues within their organizations. At home station and in
expeditionary environments, their primary responsibility is to build and maintain a mission-ready
force to execute home station and expeditionary mission requirements. First sergeants derive their
authority from the unit commander and advise commanders, command chiefs, and other enlisted
Airmen on morale, discipline, mentoring, well-being, recognition, and the professional development
of enlisted Airmen. They ensure the enlisted force understands the commanders’ policies, goals, and
objectives. They ensure support agencies are responsive to Airmen’s needs. They conduct quality
force reviews on all enlisted performance reports, decoration recommendations, and other personnel
actions. Working with their fellow SNCOs and supervisors, first sergeants ensure equitable and
effective discipline, and the highest level of esprit de corps. First sergeants work closely with the
command chief master sergeant to prepare the organization’s enlisted force to best execute all
assigned tasks. They participate in the first sergeants council and other activities that support the
total needs of the military community."

In short, this is a failure in performance of duties. Find out if the Airmen go to other Barracks, will they be able to stay in the same area? IF they are choosing to stay in the current barracks they are subject to having to deal with the issues of that building.

Response by SSG Curtis Crawford made Mar 14 at 2016 2:52 PM

2016-03-14T14:52:42-04:00

File a congressional.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2016 3:19 PM

2016-03-14T15:19:22-04:00

SSgt Puuri,
Having served in Germany for three years with the 173rd and spent time at Ramstein, I would encourage you to utilize the ICE system to lodge the issue. Perhaps the maintenance of the hot water heaters is a local national contracted position, perhaps it is due to unknown issues such as damaged components. Either way, every time I have filed an ICE complaint in Germany I have been contacted by either the installation commander or command sergeant major directly. Additionally, it is not uncommon to be contacted by the head of the department that should have been fixing the problem in the first place.

The only other thing I will say is to ask the stupid question up front - has a work order been submitted, and if so, when. That way when you submit your ICE complaint you can reference it.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2016 3:33 PM

2016-03-14T15:33:18-04:00

my question is why hasn't anyone raised hell about this in over two years? even rapist and murderers in Leavenworth get hot showers.

Response by SrA Jonathan Carbonaro made Mar 14 at 2016 4:10 PM

2016-03-14T16:10:54-04:00

Security Forces, Making Airmen wish they had joined the Army. If the Security Forces leadership knows about it, and are doing nothing. Why not try the Group Commander? If he won't do anything to fix it, Base Commander and Senator.
Have you talked to CE, to see if their is a back door way of getting it fixed? It sounds bad to say it, but sometimes the only way to fix it is through unofficial channels.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2016 5:04 PM

2016-03-14T17:04:02-04:00

What is CES saying about it? If the problem has been on going for 3+ years, then either no one has notified CE or there is a bigger issue with the base.

Response by Sgt Alexander Burton made Mar 14 at 2016 5:06 PM

2016-03-14T17:06:48-04:00

That's when you need to talk to the Airmen that work for the CC. When I was A/D if something was wrong I had no problem going straight to the ABW/CC. Also the IG is there for help as well, use the tools that are given to you.

Response by PO3 Chris Scheide made Mar 14 at 2016 10:21 PM

2016-03-14T22:21:24-04:00

Whatever you do follow the "Chain of Command". We had a really good XO on my ship. He would hear you out at his request and complaint mast. sometimes things could get a little heated but it ended in his office. He never held it against you after that.

Response by CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2016 10:56 PM

2016-03-14T22:56:07-04:00

Interesting.

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Mar 14 at 2016 11:00 PM

2016-03-14T23:00:15-04:00

After that long I would have started a "Congressional". At a minimum you address it with the CCMSgt and also the base IG. A call to the Base Hospital CC would get a health inspection going.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2016 12:28 AM

2016-03-15T00:28:19-04:00

Wing IG

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2016 12:41 AM

2016-03-15T00:41:19-04:00

IG, Congressmen, hell a Chaplin would love to help too they love to help when ever they can and they have a direct line to all leadership

Response by SSgt James Bowman made Mar 15 at 2016 1:29 AM

2016-03-15T01:29:48-04:00

If it's been 2 years, it ain't going to get fixed without some wrath from above the base commander's pay grade. Contact your Congress critter and suggest airmen start complaining on Social Media to their loved ones etc.. We had similar problems in my day during an overseas tour but fortunately had a first shirt and squadron commander that gave a $h!t and took care of the troops.

Response by SGT Damon Walton made Mar 15 at 2016 7:30 AM

2016-03-15T07:30:38-04:00

K-town was a great duty station. Whoever over their should been fired if a problem can't be solved in two years. Follow the chain of command if that doesn't work contact your congressman.

Response by SSG Scott Burk made Mar 15 at 2016 11:28 AM

2016-03-15T11:28:29-04:00

Sounds like some Senior "Leaders" need to be fired!

Response by TSgt Scott Zane made Mar 15 at 2016 12:10 PM

2016-03-15T12:10:29-04:00

Start by following the steps mentioned in Sgt Aaron Kennedy's answer. It's likely your unit leadership knows about the problem but views it as less important as it needs to be. Your SFG Command Chief and/or the Wing Command Chief definitely need to be made aware of this issue. If your entire unit leadership already knows about it, there should be no repercussions for taking it up with Command Chiefs, or even speaking directly with the SFG/CC and/or Wing/CC. If you still don't get results, take it to the MAJCOM level. If all else fails, your congressional representative can definitely get it resolved.

You know what happens if I live in a home that I own outright and I don't pay my water and/or gas bill? Code enforcement will red tag my house and kick me out of it until my services get restored. Not even Army troops who recycle water get treated like that. Just because you're military, it doesn't mean your unit is entitled to treat you and other troops like red-headed step children.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2016 9:15 AM

2016-03-16T09:15:15-04:00

This would definately be a Wing level concern, however channelled up through the Installation Command Chief (CCM). You are not required to let anyone know that you are bringing up the issue, however as a courtesy I would, but don't let anyone talk you out of it. Taking care of our people is what it's supposed to be about, unfortunately I feel too many have lose their way.

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Mar 16 at 2016 3:44 PM

2016-03-16T15:44:19-04:00

And here I thought the Air Force was supposed to full of Smart people. Is this even a real question?

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2016 6:19 PM

2016-03-16T18:19:54-04:00

Talk to whomever you want, it's a multi million dollar fix and they either have a contract in to replace the entire plumbing system or added it to a complete building renovation. It's not a simple replacing a water heater issue and that's why it has been on the books for such a long time.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 16 at 2016 11:09 PM

2016-03-16T23:09:59-04:00

Yes, most certainly, and then your congressman...

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2016 6:41 AM

2016-03-17T06:41:14-04:00

I would suggest doing some research. Find out who is responsible for barracks repairs (DPW). Find out who the barracks manager is, or if there is one, than can submit work orders. Find out if work orders have ever been submitted (again DPW) and what if any action has been taken.

THEN go to your nco support chain/CoC with this info.

Response by MSgt Bruce Hutchinson made Mar 17 at 2016 8:49 AM

2016-03-17T08:49:06-04:00

2 years is 2 years too long. If your First link in your COC hasn't done anything about it, it's past time to go to the top

Response by MAJ James Hastings made Mar 17 at 2016 9:07 AM

2016-03-17T09:07:26-04:00

That entire chain of command and the NCO support chain should be relieved of duty immediately! This substandard performance and simply unacceptable!

Response by SSG Bob Madigan made Mar 17 at 2016 9:19 AM

2016-03-17T09:19:35-04:00

More than once when I was a Soldier, we took matters in hand and did our own repairs. Resourcefullness was expected and encouraged.

Response by TSgt Troy Davis made Mar 17 at 2016 12:15 PM

2016-03-17T12:15:46-04:00

Take care of your people.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2016 1:44 PM

2016-03-17T13:44:03-04:00

Yes...your duty is to ensure the right leadership are involved in a solution. Two years is unacceptable, if the engineers are truely unable to fix the problem than all airmen living in the dorms should be permanently moved.

Response by MSgt Bruce Hutchinson made Mar 18 at 2016 10:04 AM

2016-03-18T10:04:52-04:00

i see a couple issues here and the original poster may not like one of them. First I find it odd that after 2 years the installation commander isn't aware of the issue. If he's not aware of it, I'll go out on a limb and say that he's more than likely guilty of negligence and should be relieved of command (heck. What else is he unaware of). Next, isn't it still the case that if a member (especially an NCO) isn't getting answers to legitimate questions from his immediate command that the member has the right to go over the heads of his command? How would this go poorly? Finally I am concerned that the poster might have other issues. I can't understand how an NCO an E-5 is worried about retailiation for looking out for the welfare of his subordinates. If you wear those stripes, grow a pair and do what's right for your troops

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2016 1:23 PM

2016-03-18T13:23:43-04:00

Thank you everyone for your help with my question. The issue is being handled through appropriate channels and the Airmen are receiving assistance.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2016 11:21 AM

2016-03-24T11:21:17-04:00

Simple bump it up the chain and tell them that you are going to follow it to the top...so you are still following the chain of coomand but also telling them if nothing is done I will be going over your head...as leadership are #1 priority is the well being of our troops...so shame on them for not taking care of it sooner!!!

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2016 10:13 AM

2016-05-23T10:13:26-04:00

How in the hell has this gone on for three years anyway? I am sure that the command structure knows about it...my question is why has no action been taken other than a lame "You can move if you want or shower at the gym..." That is a temp fix only...not what is truly needed. I would suggest you start your question with "Sir, I am sure you are aware of this situation, but what is the ECD for the hot water situation effecting the SFS dorms?" Getting no satisfaction at that point you look at Congressionals...

Response by A1C Joseph Waleski made Feb 15 at 2018 4:19 PM

2018-02-15T16:19:06-05:00

The men will love you but your FC and CO will want to ring your neck. Poorly is being kind. You'll never get out of the Doo-Doo pen. Maybe if you found someone in Civil Engineering that gives a damn they might be able to do something kinda on the QT. It sounds like the hot water heater is not functioning. It could be as simple as needing a new element. y'all might be able to fix it yourselves. It sure seems like no one else is going to.

Response by A1C Arthur Greenfield made Sep 16 at 2020 8:29 PM

2020-09-16T20:29:38-04:00

Unfortunately if are treated little better then tools

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2021 12:46 PM

2021-02-26T12:46:21-05:00

Well its public information now and that is a step. now is time for those outside to start inquiring as to this problem and why has it gone on for 2 years. If a soldier can get a shower in the field he surely should get one with hot water in the barracks.