Should females get their own seperate tents from males? Should gays and lesbians be able to request their own seperate tents?

MSG Martinis Butler — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 22:35:59 -0400

If in the field should females get their own seperate tents from males? Should gays and lesbians be able to request their own seperate tents in the field as well? Why?

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2014 10:39 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 22:39:29 -0400

Why do you ask? I thought we had long standing social conventions / traditions here.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2014 11:04 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 23:04:08 -0400

SFC Butler,

I don't think Soldiers of a different gender need separate tents. Ponchos/woobies and 550 cord provide all the privacy anyone needs. The only separation should be officers from enlisted and, if possible, Senior NCOs from junior enlisted Soldiers.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jun 16 at 2014 11:09 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 23:09:30 -0400

SFC Butler, it really comes down to MET-T. If at all possible, then yes, try to segregate the living accommodations by gender. If not possible, then you suck it up, be professional and drive on.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2014 11:57 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 23:57:10 -0400

I thought females & males got their separate tents in the field, to include separate showers and latrines. So lesbians & gays get their own tents because of sexual preference or because they're a protected class? It would have been great if I could keep my female squad members in the same tent so I didn't have to walk across a compound or 'field' so I can pass off information to them and keep team integrity. But leave it neanderthals, the bad apples to ruin it, so that will never be a possibility because males can't keep in their pants. Now supporting equal opportunity, don't think for a minute female soldiers aren't just as guilty. Separate tents? no and I will tell why, intolerance. People have been brought up to think a certain way based on their family traditions, their cultural and religious beliefs, some maybe accepting with some reservation and others will vehemently never accept the LGBTQ community. I don't know when you came into the military SFC Butler, but I've seen gay/lesbian baiting to the point a Soldier will admit he/she is gay/lesbian, this before the repeal of DADT. On that admission alone it was grounds for discharge. Even worse yet, when a Soldier takes their own life because of the fear of what might happen after being outed. I've seen gay bashing where physical violence was used and Soldiers injured badly and sometimes nearly killed. Fear is a powerful thing, it's fueled by prejudices, stereotypes and discrimination. So, again, no separate tents. Hell, we can't even stamp out sexual assault, EEO issues, Soldier on Soldier violence, separate tents won't solve it either.

Response by SGT Bobby F. made Jun 17 at 2014 3:42 AM

SGT Bobby F. — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 03:42:50 -0400

SFC Butler -

I can think of no legitimate reason to separate males and females in a Field Tent, for the purpose of a field training exercise as an example. All Soldiers need to maintain enough professional personal pride to conduct themselves as Soldiers. With the military moving further along in equalizing gender rolls, that effort needs to spill over to the rest of military life. Barring medical and hygiene facilities, there doesn't need to be a separation.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2014 7:40 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 07:40:22 -0400

SFC Butler,

With the repeal of DADT and the integration of women into combat rolls, cohabitation of males/females/LGBT Soldiers is essentially a requirement. If you can't share a tent, good luck sharing a fighting hole or defecating in a slit trench.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2014 7:48 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 07:48:34 -0400

Before this deployment I'm on now, we had a 2 week PMT in the field. Separate tents didn't exist, we had no issues because we are professionals.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Jun 17 at 2014 9:44 AM

CMSgt James Nolan — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 09:44:23 -0400

That is a tough Q SFC Butler. Tough Q. No matter which side of it you come down on, there are going to be problems and complaints.

And let us be clear-even the Sexual Assault Response Coordinators (SARCs) have not been able to stay out of trouble with sex.

Big problems. Sex is a powerful thing, and whenever you combine men and women, there will be sex. Professional or not, married or not. Some ( a percentage of troops-not all), will run into sexually related issues. It is what it is.

Response by SGT Edward Clark made Jun 17 at 2014 10:42 AM

SGT Edward Clark — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 10:42:04 -0400

You want the job take the requirements with the job. If you are part of a unit the unit sleeps and works in the same space.

Response by MSG Martinis Butler made Jun 17 at 2014 7:13 PM

MSG Martinis Butler — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 19:13:50 -0400

My main focus is why if we are willing to consider allowing females to stay in their own tents because of privacy and respect should we take those same concept to allow gays and lesbians to have their own tents？ If most branches of service consider females thoughts of being uncomfortable staying in tents with males, should branches of service take heed to those same concept when straight service members complain about being uncomfortable sharing tents?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2014 7:30 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 19:30:30 -0400

In OCS, I shared a tent with males...and they were crybabies about it. By that point, there was only one other female left in our platoon and they wanted us OUT. Woosies (not the word I actually used).

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2014 9:28 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 21:28:59 -0400

Being a female MP, I find it easier to be in the same tent as the males. It helps build cohesion and it is easier to pass information. We got a new Infantry commander and for the first field exercise with our company, he separated the males and females. During that field exercise we (the female MP's, which there was only 3 lol) had such a hard time getting information passed to us. I really have no idea why it was so hard, but it was. Thankfully after that exercise the commander let us go back to sleeping in the same tents for the next one. The MP's though were the only ones to have one tent for male and females. Every other MOS had a tent for each gender.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2014 10:07 PM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 22:07:38 -0400

When I was in the Great Place spending 3/4 months out of the year in the field, my section of Ammunition Handlers was split down the middle, five female and six male soldiers. We lived together in the same tents, ate together, stood guard while each other used make shift field showers and never once was there an issue. We took care of each other and respected individualism while operating as a solid unit. I would not have done that any other way and would challenge others to embrace this sort of unity and enforce from the beginning the team concept. They were my brothers and sisters and the bond we built in those tents carried over to deployment. We the males always watched our sisters' backs when moving around the base, and ensured they were not subjected to unwelcomed sexual advances or abuse.

Response by MSG Floyd Williams made Jun 18 at 2014 12:29 AM

MSG Floyd Williams — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 00:29:18 -0400

No, separate tents only for the wounded and casualties, our Armed Forces Policies is already doing a number on the military with constant changes that is causing some confusion and segregation it's killing the morale.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2014 10:50 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 10:50:32 -0400

i have to say my unit has made the change from this. when we went to the field prior to deployment, we had an entire company (50 to 60 people) in big tents. male and females and we were all spread out not segregated by gender, the thing we did was create a changing area with sheets and it all depends on the type of females you have, ours would walk sometimes change shirts infront o us and we would do the same, depends on the bond you have as weel. i personnally think that if you are a girly girl or scaredy boy that is afraid to get your hands dirty then the army is not for you and you need to get out.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2014 12:21 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 12:21:17 -0400

Sometime you just do not have enough tents for everyone so just gotta make do and remember you are in the Army. With that said I have only ever had a hand full or females in any of my Maintenance Platoons. When in a field environment all the Soldiers would share a tent. For the females we would block off an area with some type of cover to allow privacy for the other females.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Jun 18 at 2014 12:28 PM

CPT Zachary Brooks — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 12:28:43 -0400

If we keep seperating for others we will have more tents than anything else.

Male, female, NCO, Lower enlisted, officer, warrant officer, lesbian, gay, transgender, bisexual, asexual, tall, short, fat, skinny, etc, etc, etc...

It gets ludicrous after awhile.

We are all soldiers, we all sleep in one tent. Or better yet, no tents! Sleep under the stars with your water proof bag and a poncho.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2014 1:26 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 13:26:58 -0400

I've been in both situations: being housed with my male counterparts and separated with only the females. I can tell you from personal experience, the separation was difficult. Being seen as a member of the team, building unit cohesion and having camaraderie all happen when the team is together, spends time together and gets to know each other. While I was downrange in '03, my entire commo team slept in the same tent, males and females alike. We never had an issue. We looked out for each other, knew each others habits, moods and situations back home. When everyone sees each other as a member of a team, you treat everyone as a member of the team.

That being said, when I was in units that separated males and females, information was rarely passed to the females, we were rarely if ever included in unit activities after hours, and I did not feel the camaraderie nor unit cohesion at all.

I am all for keeping unit integrity.

Response by SSG David Hollingshead made Jun 18 at 2014 7:39 PM

SSG David Hollingshead — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 19:39:46 -0400

I have thought about this on and off and this is my opinion take it as you will: each unit has its own demographic. so the first part would be it depend on the unit. if you have enough of one side or the other a seperate tent would most likely be the smart choice. but to caviate that with the fact that we are all soldiers if your in the rear fine but if push comes to shove LEAVE THAT CRAP IN THE REAR. I a combat situation and in most field exercizes it is not the time or place for who likes what or who.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2014 9:18 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 21:18:51 -0400

From my experience i don't think we should have separate tents. Platoon integrity is how the ENTIRE Uniformed Services has been run, and it works. You take my females out the loop and now you create a host of issues. Number 1 is communication. I have battles that are team leaders and when they go to a separate tent then now we have to find some stupid safe ground too speak and battle prep.

Ive also found that our females feel safer with their platoon and leadership, then segregated.

Response by SPC Kara Sport made Jun 20 at 2014 12:23 PM

SPC Kara Sport — Fri, 20 Jun 2014 12:23:24 -0400

I never had issues sharing tents with males. We just made sure to check in with each other when it came to change or clean up so no one walked in on each other in stages of undress.

Response by 1SG Charles Lyons made Jun 22 at 2014 6:01 PM

1SG Charles Lyons — Sun, 22 Jun 2014 18:01:33 -0400

When we brought females into the Field Artillery in the early 80's ... this wasn't an issue. Eat, sleep, or whatever on the firing points or in the assembly area "together." Cannot believe 30 years later, we are still talking about this!

Response by SFC Michael W. made Jun 22 at 2014 10:20 PM

SFC Michael W. — Sun, 22 Jun 2014 22:20:36 -0400

No to all of the above...whenever my unit deployed my soldiers (males and females) always stayed in the same tent, provided we set the interior up so their privacy are respected. I'm not here to do favors, I'm here to complete a mission!

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Jun 23 at 2014 11:15 AM

CW5 Sam R. Baker — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 11:15:06 -0400

Just found your topic, and I have never been one to segregate anything, much less sexes when it comes to serving the military. It is volunteer is it not? So why would a woman Soldier or male Soldier think they have rights when it comes to who lives in your tent when the commander or 1SG says you sleep here.

In 1998 we went to the field for MEGAGOLD in the 101st. We had a CPT, the operations officer who adamantly was opposed to the four female pilots we had sleeping in our tent. He positioned himself as far away as possible from them. We had taken a couple of ponchos and made a little wall in one end of the GP Medium. Even that was not necessary as most of the time they would merely change UNDER a poncho sitting on the cot. We all did.

This was a larger problem in garrison at WOCS where there were only two restrooms for hygiene in the morning for 68 Soldiers, only 3 of which were female and they vetoed the proposal to allow males in when they were shower complete and fully dressed, therefore placing 65 males in one restroom till they were complete. It was miserable, but the way it was.

Europe has Co-Ed restrooms do they not? We are behind in the gender thing, but to update you on the CPT in the beginning of this post, it was his own insecurity in dealing with women that scared him. He ended up marrying the orderly room clerk (not legal) because they became pregnant. Most of the time when someone has such deep resistance to something, there is an underlying issue.

Response by SFC Ocie Conner made Jun 23 at 2014 5:15 PM

SFC Ocie Conner — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 17:15:16 -0400

Battle, I would be very cautious on using the terms "gays and lesbians". We have a bunch of Soldiers utilizing this forum and I would hate for you to have to explain yourself.

I have been in units to where males and females were seperated but I have also been in units as to were you lived with your team, squad, Platoon. I think that it has become the norm to accomadate such living conditions and some may say that it is not right or they are being treated different. I think that this is no ill intenet by our leaders when a decision is made to seperate living quarters but I also think it is to mitigate what they can at their level. Great questions

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Jun 24 at 2014 9:56 AM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 09:56:55 -0400

I only had to deal with this issue once or twice in my 26-year career and that was when I was the driver for the Chief of Staff and worked out of the office of the division SGS...we had a couple of female Soldiers as well as four male Soldiers and we all shared the same tent, never was an issue, the females gave us a heads up when they were stripping down to go to bed or getting dressed in the mornings and we did the same so as to prevent any surprise moments. If everyone is professional there shouldn't be an issue at all with tent sharing!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2014 9:07 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Aug 2014 21:07:04 -0400

That's usually the case when I go to the field, all females get their own tent.

Response by SFC Mark Bailey made Sep 7 at 2015 1:14 PM

SFC Mark Bailey — Mon, 07 Sep 2015 13:14:02 -0400

I have no issue with the mixed gender tents, and actually feel that if a unit deploys...it should remain together regardless of any condition (and that goes for women, transgender, or whatever),

In Iraq, in 2004 I was surprised to walk into the transient tent and find myself among both men and women from a Convoy trying to catch "a few hours of rack time before continuing the mission". I didn't bat an eye because I was exhausted as well, and almost didn't even pull off my combat boots before collapsing on my bunk.

After I woke up I asked one of the soldiers as we were smoking a cigarette outside what was the deal with the mixed gender group... she answered that she was part of the convoy and didn't feel safe or even comfortable sleeping with the few other women in the women's tent. One of the other two women stepped outside, and looked at me and said that the platoon never separated and I told them both that I admired the platoon for maintaining their unit cohesiveness.

We all agreed that far too many female soldiers had been in unsafe conditions over there for far too long in those nearly empty transient tents. I was very glad to see that this unit was looking our for its own in every possible way.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2016 12:59 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 12:59:50 -0500

Starship Troopers. everybody in the same tent.

Where do you draw the line? females get their own tent, gays get their own tent, lesbians get their own tent, transgenders get their own tent, Muslims get their own tent, Jews get their own tent, Buddhists get their own tent, skinny guys with tiny dicks get their own tent, etc, etc, etc. The list of "special" groups who would want their own tent is endless.....

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2020 2:25 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Mar 2020 14:25:37 -0500

Is there a regulation in this! I need it because females in my unit are wanting the males to set up there sleep systems and not help as well as wanting there own sleeping quarters in the field.

Response by Col Rebecca Lorraine made Mar 6 at 2020 2:40 PM

Col Rebecca Lorraine — Fri, 06 Mar 2020 14:40:16 -0500

Interesting question, but I think the answer is context. During my time in the army and Air Force reserve, we were often lumped together with a gp large and no one had issues. As a unit you work and live side by side. In other deployments, there were separate billets because of the size of the fob or exercise. I personally didn’t care and the team seems to bond better when everyone is equal. Officers and enlisted billeted together, men, women, and everyone else regardless of their gender preferences. It’s really about the availability and size of the unit. All are warriors and hopefully professional and mature enough to work it out.