Should Ben Carson's lies about his West Point application make him ineligible to be president of the United States?

2015-11-06T13:48:00-05:00

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/ben-carson-west-point-215598

Ben Carson admits fabricating West Point scholarship

Carson's campaign on Friday conceded that a central point in his inspirational personal story did not occur as he previously described.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2015 1:49 PM

2015-11-06T13:49:22-05:00

Really who hasn't lied? If you are a politician you have lied!

Response by CSM David Heidke made Nov 6 at 2015 1:50 PM

2015-11-06T13:50:17-05:00

How many lies are in "Dreams From My Father?"

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2015 1:52 PM

2015-11-06T13:52:26-05:00

Yes! This wasn't some little white lie. This was a ploy to gain political favor by claiming potential military service. This is not becoming of someone who wants to be the leader of the free world.

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2015 1:54 PM

2015-11-06T13:54:35-05:00

Sorry to say, but yes. He has lost my support.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2015 2:09 PM

2015-11-06T14:09:07-05:00

If we say this man is not qualified then how is Hillary Clinton qualified? But to answer the question. Yes, this does affect his credibility to be POTUS.

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Nov 6 at 2015 2:09 PM

2015-11-06T14:09:49-05:00

I'm surprised Gloria Allred has not accused him of anything. Liberals fear a Black conservative. I heard it at that time they were pushing to get more blacks into West Point. He was in rotc. And he interpreted it as an offer.

Response by MSgt James Mullis made Nov 6 at 2015 2:10 PM

2015-11-06T14:10:07-05:00

No. But it's the kind of thing that makes me think he is unlikely to win against Hillary Clinton in the General Election.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2015 2:12 PM

2015-11-06T14:12:49-05:00

I am disappointed for sure. But, if he ineligible for this then who is eligible?

Response by SGT Jeremiah B. made Nov 6 at 2015 2:19 PM

2015-11-06T14:19:15-05:00

Ineligible, no, but it brings into question his integrity. Despite our political differences, I was surprised and saddened by this. His campaign is claiming he was informally offered ASSISTANCE in gaining an appointment but chose not to pursue it. Plausible, but at the end of the day, that's not what he claimed happened in his book.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Nov 6 at 2015 2:45 PM

2015-11-06T14:45:53-05:00

Ineligible no...would I vote for him...No. It is an integrity issue for me. We have had presidents that smoked dope and lied about it. Had affairs while in office and lied about it. The real question should be, what about lying on a Non Disclosure agreement. That is a felony and we would have all gone to jail by now but that individual is still in the race. If we wanted to rid the government of liars, it would be almost like the rapture in Washington...no one would be left standing in their office.

Politicians as straight as a good many of them are, misspeak. or their campaigns do or speak before they have all the facts. Some of the bad apples just flat out lie. However, I believe that to get elected president, they will all tell a story somewhere along the way or get caught in a contradiction somehow because no one is exempt from the spin of the enemy, whoever that may be.

Response by CSM David Heidke made Nov 6 at 2015 3:49 PM

2015-11-06T15:49:24-05:00

so apparently, Carson did not lie about this... Nor did he admit that his short story was "fabricated." It appears he told a story, and was told that he could be offered a slot at West Point, but decided against it. West Point doesn't give scholarships anyway, it's free for anyone who decides to attend. So this is a hit piece by Politico.

http://www.youngcons.com/ben-shapiro-breaks-down-politico-hit-piece-on-ben-carson-explains-why-he-isnt-lying/

Ben Shapiro Proves Ben Carson Wasn't Lying About West Point...Media Hit Job

Everyone needs to see this.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2015 4:34 PM

2015-11-06T16:34:05-05:00

http://www.dailywire.com/news/960/no-ben-carson-didnt-lie-about-west-point-its-ben-shapiro?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content

No, Ben Carson Didn't Lie About West Point. It's Another Media Hit Job.

Never underestimate the capacity of the media to propagandize against Republicans. That’s the theme of this morning’s overwrought news coverage on Dr. Ben Carson’s supposed “lie” regarding a “scholarship” to West Point. The story began with Politico, which ran with the audacious headline, “Ben Carson admits fabricating West Point scholarship.” Even I was taken in by the headline – after all, that’s a pretty bold claim! Politico began thusly:

Response by MSgt John Grollimund made Nov 6 at 2015 5:28 PM

2015-11-06T17:28:31-05:00

Due to the fact that he may have bloated it a bit, the media took what someone else said and ran with it. The media is making more "sheeple".

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2015 6:13 PM

2015-11-06T18:13:42-05:00

No. I'm prreeettttyyyy sure he isn't the only one who might have embelished a little.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Nov 6 at 2015 6:59 PM

2015-11-06T18:59:22-05:00

Only took a few hours for this claim to be exposed as bullshit.

Response by TSgt Kristin Parsons made Nov 12 at 2015 11:09 AM

2015-11-12T11:09:19-05:00

He didn't lie. After the media took the story and ran with it he clarified that it was an informal offer between two people talking.

Response by Cpl Robert Masi made Nov 12 at 2015 11:28 AM

2015-11-12T11:28:39-05:00

THIS ARTICLE IS A LIE......Everyone who hasn't already, look up the TRUTH. This whole Sh*t Show started with a website called Politico fabricating the truth and misleading the public....And now liberal idiocy has made it to Rallypoint YET AGAIN.

Response by Lt Col Stephen Petzold made Nov 12 at 2015 11:46 AM

2015-11-12T11:46:59-05:00

While not necessarily a Carson supporter, this seems like a big made up story hit piece by a left wing media organization. Politico has had to change the story at least once now.

Carson was the top JrROTC cadet in Detroit at the time. As such he got a chance to meet Gen Westmoreland. Westmoreland basically told him he was a shoe-in to get into West Point and a scholarship was his for the taking. It is very common for teenagers to not get the nuance of attendance at the Service Academies being gov funded vs a typical collage scholarship. It is not helped by the fact that West Point uses the term "scholarship" in their ads.

Carson never said that he applied to West Point or was granted admission, just that he was offered a scholarship, which he was in a way by Gen Westmoreland. While not official, it is easy to see why an impressionable teenager meeting a famous Gen would take things that way.

Response by SPC Andrew Griffin made Nov 12 at 2015 12:53 PM

2015-11-12T12:53:56-05:00

He Opened himself up to that! Now his Integrity is in Question! The media is going to ride this wave!

Response by SSG Joe McFarlan made Nov 12 at 2015 3:19 PM

2015-11-12T15:19:18-05:00

Wait a minute. When did he ever say he was admitted?? i never heard that one! He said in his book that he was offered a scholarship to West Point. And that's how I would have understood free College as a 17 year old... But I haven't heard him say he was admitted. I've heard news stories say that he did... But they've never been able to justify that story. Come on RP! I expected more from you!

Response by MAJ Rick Breneman made Nov 12 at 2015 4:07 PM

2015-11-12T16:07:31-05:00

I'm not a Dr Carson supporter, but h neve4 said he attended Hudson High. He even acknowledged that he NEVER even applied to USMA. If you want decent comments, at least get yo facts straight.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2015 6:49 PM

2015-11-12T18:49:51-05:00

It is truly disappointing to see so many individuals in Rallly Point not ave their complete facts together and make a judgement call based on a bogus story from politico... Appointments to West Point are essentially Fulll-ride scholarships and I have heard very senior level officers offer to to help get sponsorship (nomination) from congressman for a gifted student... 50 years ago in Detroit a gifted MINORIY ROTC student?... you don't think that's plausible?... he turned down an offer to help get the appointment/scholarship.
Too many ignorant folks letting others tell you what you should think based on misleading reporting... twisting - skewing the facts just enough.
I would have hoped Rally Point folks were better than that.

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Nov 12 at 2015 7:30 PM

2015-11-12T19:30:30-05:00

No, we've had worse...

Response by 1SG Jack Crutcher made Nov 12 at 2015 7:38 PM

2015-11-12T19:38:11-05:00

This guy is running for president, do you really think this is the biggest and only lie he will tell? Do you think he is the only one telling a lie? Do you think any politician will lie or ever lied?

Response by SN William Perkins made Nov 12 at 2015 8:45 PM

2015-11-12T20:45:20-05:00

He didn't lie this has been exposed as a hit piece,why are you still pushing it?

Response by SFC Don Ward made Nov 12 at 2015 9:10 PM

2015-11-12T21:10:26-05:00

You know, you are not supposed to call out another poster, but RP shouldn't let this one go unchallenged. POLITICO fabricates a story, and this poster gets a by? Number 1) West Point did offer scholarships under the Affirmative Action. 2) Carson obviously has more brains in his fourth point of contact than this Robinson has in his entire cranial storage area (gotta be storage cause he ain't using it for anything else. 3)Carson obviously went on to do better and bigger things.

Robinson obviously needs to apologize to us and Carson

Response by SFC Stephen King made Nov 12 at 2015 9:30 PM

2015-11-12T21:30:20-05:00

No, more specifically it was when he was a teenager growing up in Detroit and we are worried about wording.

Response by MSgt John Carroll made Nov 12 at 2015 10:15 PM

2015-11-12T22:15:41-05:00

I am sorry to tell you this, but if all it took was this story for you to switch away from Carson, you weren't going to vote for him anyway. here are a few more questionable items

In the 1990's, Ben Carson was the one who let the dogs out
Ben Carson once rented a video and didn't rewind it before he returned it.
In 2007, Ben Carson didn't read the "Terms and Conditions" but clicked the box anyway

Response by Sgt Spencer Sikder made Nov 13 at 2015 2:49 AM

2015-11-13T02:49:55-05:00

Interesting that these embellishments by the either the media or the candidates seem to cover both parties and many of the candidates.

Response by Cpl Chris Rice made Nov 13 at 2015 6:12 AM

2015-11-13T06:12:42-05:00

I think this whole subject has gotten a good bit overblown, but I’ll give you an up vote, because this site works by individuals asking a question. It is ridiculous that you are being penalized for simply asking a question that offends all of these Dr. Carson apologists, when many similar hit pieces are posted about the President, and Sec. Clinton all the time (The down votes are not a defense of integrity, but a defense of Dr. Carson).

Response by MCPO Steve Spence made Nov 13 at 2015 1:06 PM

2015-11-13T13:06:19-05:00

It probably wouldn't make him ineligible, but I won't vote for him for that very reason. In my opinion most politicians tend to not tell the truth all the time. I'm comparing his West Point story to Stolen Valor.

Response by MCPO Steve Spence made Nov 13 at 2015 1:10 PM

2015-11-13T13:10:28-05:00

Tough choice if you are considering all the way back. Washington and Lincoln would have to be considered. If we are only looking at those from 1900 until now, I would say Roosevelt, Truman, and Reagan.

Response by PO1 Brian Austin made Nov 13 at 2015 2:01 PM

2015-11-13T14:01:35-05:00

I think it's irrelevant regardless if it's true or not. Many Presidents and candidates have done a lot worse.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2015 10:51 PM

2015-11-13T22:51:34-05:00

Actually, if you'd go elsewhere for news or read the actual excerpt from the book. He was offered an "appointment to west point" from a senior officer at a dinner party, he refused immediately(politely). There was zero paperwork involved yet since it went no further, this is how it works, I attempted to get an appointment as a teenager and failed(my fault completely, I was a slacker). Shitty secondary author(standard procedure for a biography, hence why it's not an "autobiography") changed it to "scholarship" so civilians would understand, of which it was nothing of the kind. The academies have no scholarships.

If you are so set on debunking what he said, I highly recommend tracking down said senior officer and asking if he offered it or not, which the media has thus far, not bothered to do.

Response by Rhonda Likins made Nov 13 at 2015 11:16 PM

2015-11-13T23:16:58-05:00

There are lots of other reasons I think Ben Carson isn't qualified to be President. First and foremost, the media should focus on holding him to his policies which will directly affect the voters, like wanting to abolish medicare, giving huge tax breaks to the rich, not wanting to raise minimum wage, etc and get specifics from him. But the media is hyper focused on his past. This would prove that his policies are thin because he doesn't really have any specifics, because he basically lacks the competence in budgetary concerns, debt ceiling, and so on, that would be needed as President. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrQGo3XdUjw)

He also doesn't really understand foreign policy. How did you like his "expert" opinion on how to fight IS and make them look like losers as advised by top military generals? And we all remember the last time oil pumps were ablaze. I would just tell him to explain that to the troops and military firefighters who have to go in after and extinguish the oil pump fires, and maybe develop health problems later, why he made that decision.

The close scrutiny he's getting over his statements at the debate should expose that incompetence. And whether the media is eerily taking him seriously, or if they are just after ratings, Carson flailing around his words, trying to make it sound intelligent (Trump too) actually does a disservice to the Military personnel who are actually involved in that conflict at all levels.

Finally, the lies and why he most likely started spinning them and whether he'd be trustworthy. He's trying to paint this narrative of himself as a violent youth, when he did terrible things, incidences he's claimed to have happened, but haven't been proven, or corroborated. Of a violent youth who was miraculously saved by his faith which would lead to the fabrications while he was at Yale. Though I think the lies are the least of the reasons, but the ones he's said which have not been proven or corroborated should help you decide for yourself about his character. And if you're still unsure, add hypocrisy:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ben-carson-health-care-fraud_564472f0e4b060377347c912

Dr. Ben Carson has no idea what the "debt limit" is (10/07/2015)

Ben Carson stumbles on debt limit question in an interview with Kai Ryssdal of the American Public Radio Program “Marketplace”.

Response by COL Ronald Diana made Nov 14 at 2015 4:43 PM

2015-11-14T16:43:49-05:00

He never started a application for West Point, so how could that be a lie?

Response by MAJ Alvin B. made Nov 15 at 2015 11:43 AM

2015-11-15T11:43:26-05:00

No, as the qualifications for President of the United Staes are set in the Constitution.
It is up to each of us as voters to decide whose electors we will let make that choice for us (a gentle reminder here, - we do not directly elect the President, that is done by the Electoral College).

Response by Mike Stenberg made Nov 15 at 2015 2:07 PM

2015-11-15T14:07:26-05:00

He didnt admit fabricating anythin at all, and he didn't lie. Too bad so many people fall for the media's slanted story without reading up on the facts for themselves.

Response by SFC Joseph McCausland made Dec 21 at 2015 2:03 PM

2015-12-21T14:03:57-05:00

I find it odd, that we are quick to label Dr. Ben Carson a liar for a "recollection" of events that happen almost 50 years ago that does no harm to anyone but himself; yet, President Obama can utter the now "famous" words..

"If you like your plan, then you can keep your plan and if you like your doctor, then you can keep your doctor".

Through recent disclosures and evidence, we now know that these words were false when he said them and most troubling, he knew indeed, that he was lying to the American people when he uttered them.

These very words, may have duped millions of Americans in supporting "The Affordable Care Act" or "Obama Care" as it is most often referred to.

Ask yourself this, had the President told the truth and said.."You may be able to keep your present plan and you may be able to keep your same doctor but there is no guarantee because of the many factions the "New" system will have to consider and there is always the chance that your doctor will "opt out" or not be included in your new plan at all", would we have "Obama Care today?

What if he had said those words... would the uproar from the American people have been so loud that the Democrats would not have dared pull off those backroom dealings and rules manipulating that they had to do in order to get the bill passed (without a single Republican vote) by both houses?

Funny thing, those 32 million "uninsured" Americans that Obama Care was suppose to help. well last I heard.. there are "still" 32 million "uninsured" Americans.. but maybe they are not the same ones.....