Should Basic Training go back to being a difficult, earned course, or should it be given to any trainee that doesn't quit for the ten weeks?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Feb 2015 13:45:19 -0500

Basiic training at Ft. Jackson has become so lax and easy to graduate from that literally ANYONE who doesnt quit can make it through without actually having to work for it. When I went through my initial training, I had to earn my cord and discs. I got smoked. I got hit. I worked my butt off to achieve it. Now, I see trainees left and right just slinking around in the shadows, passing unnnoticed til graduation day. Do you think this should be allowed, or should we cut the leash off the Drill Sergeants and make them earn it, and treat them the way we would at a unit?

Invite others to respond

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2015 7:03 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Feb 2015 19:03:38 -0500

I like the idea of making it more difficult/demanding. Then there's a feeling of accomplishment, of belonging, esprit de corps, etc. Plus, during the ongoing drawdown, a tougher Basic could be part of the force structure strategy.

Response by MAJ David Vermillion made Feb 27 at 2015 7:13 PM

MAJ David Vermillion — Fri, 27 Feb 2015 19:13:56 -0500

This easy approach to training boils down to leadership, nobody wants to stand up for anything because of repercussions from higher echelon of authority. Leaders make the policies we follow, change the rules if you want it to be more challenging. Look at Ranger School, our last tough frontier is being changed because of leadership.

Response by SP5 Michael Rathbun made Feb 27 at 2015 8:32 PM

SP5 Michael Rathbun — Fri, 27 Feb 2015 20:32:39 -0500

There were two military courses that make up my "I am undyingly proud of surviving that" list.

The title of the first course, when I was first lowered into it face-first, was "Basic Combat Training". There were only 2 of the cadre who didn't have a CIB, and the CO had gone to RVN as enlisted and returned an officer. Cadre were regularly levied out to escort caskets home. They all had definite opinions on the relationship between relentless training and returning to CONUS in the vertical orientation.

I was really lucky. There were other BCT companies on FLW in 1968 who were driven much less than we were. MUCH less. I was in the bottom 5% of those who graduated in my cycle. (The other two "outs" other than graduating from BCT were either some sort of discharge, or being Recycled, a fate not to be envied.)

And I came back vertical.

Response by 1LT A. Uribe made Feb 27 at 2015 8:39 PM

1LT A. Uribe — Fri, 27 Feb 2015 20:39:42 -0500

Basic Training is a joke and the Army is quickly becoming the laughing stock.

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made Feb 27 at 2015 8:44 PM

SSG Leonard Johnson — Fri, 27 Feb 2015 20:44:00 -0500

well giggles....I know now why I see some of the panzy post that I see now days hehehehe It a kidndler gentler army now....You actually can't tell a PVT he a waste of his own daddy sperm....Cowboy/Cowgirl up everyone

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2015 9:58 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Feb 2015 21:58:43 -0500

Sir,

I feel this is sort of a loaded question. We need to make the system harder but at the same time from what I heard it was the same way in the "old" days you could keep your head down and still graduate. Even if BCT was harder the end state is still for you to graduate.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2015 11:24 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Feb 2015 23:24:22 -0500

I voted make it harder, but I do find it funny that this poll was posted by someone that graduated basic about five minutes ago. I went in 1981 and I was never hit.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Feb 28 at 2015 1:20 AM

COL Charles Williams — Sat, 28 Feb 2015 01:20:13 -0500

No one should be allowed to graduate BCT unless they meet all the standards; the standards need to be rigid and correct. Training changes all the time, but making it easier is never a good option. It should be go/no go, and never gray.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2015 2:36 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Feb 2015 02:36:05 -0500

I will throw my two cents in I guess, hopefully the comment won't get deleted. I worked in a basic training battalion as an operation NCO down at Fort Benning before I went to the Sergeants Major Academy. Basic training was definitely easier than when I went through but, Ranger School is also easier than when I went through. Standards change all the time.

Basic training does what it is designed to do, transform a civilian into a Soldier (in the most basic form). It is the Soldiers first duty assignment/NCO that is responsible for developing that Soldier into a professional.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2015 5:28 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Feb 2015 05:28:13 -0500

I think we're doing our young troops a disservice coddling them the way we do. Over the years I've received a number of young troops fresh from OSUT. Over half of them couldn't pass an APFT at their first drill. Some had been out of OSUT less than 2 weeks! Discipline has also suffered. I remember walking up on one of our new PVTs who was leaning against a car with his hands in his pockets. His greeting to myself and the senior NCO next to me? "Sup?" While the correction was made, he too had been out of OSUT less than a month.

Beyond the discipline issue is the matter of building physical and mental toughness. BCT is supposed to help prepare our young men and women to go to war. When most PVTs I speak with say BCT was "fun" it tells me that we're not challenging them enough. We're losing an immense opportunity to build these young men and women up. The next opportunity they have to learn some of these lessons may be combat.

Response by SGT Jim Z. made Feb 28 at 2015 8:13 AM

SGT Jim Z. — Sat, 28 Feb 2015 08:13:06 -0500

I think it needs to be difficult and lot less than band camp. I think in the long run it prepares people for the real world. I know when I went it was difficult but looking back it prepared me for all types of situations and the most important I do not get my butt or feelings hurt too quickly.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2015 10:18 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Feb 2015 10:18:33 -0500

Just wish a PVT could pass the APFT when they are done with IET

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2015 10:34 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Feb 2015 10:34:39 -0500

Fort Jackson has always been Cupcakeland compared to everywhere else, but the Army has become pussified, thanks to society's creation, the Particiaption Trophy Generation.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2015 12:40 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Feb 2015 12:40:02 -0500

So... you graduated just over a year ago? Is this the official stance of 3-13, the unit you represent? That basic training is too easy in comparison to the way it was when you graduated, so long ago?

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Feb 28 at 2015 12:42 PM

SPC Charles Brown — Sat, 28 Feb 2015 12:42:13 -0500

How far back does the Army need to go to bring up standards for military professionalism? When I first went in we were taught hand to hand combat, suffered verbal and physical "abuse" to toughen up the individual and thicken the skin. Personally, I believe that this may not have been the best system to develop soldiers, but it was a far different era. As for today's soldiers, well let me just say that the training I went through when I came back to active duty was more lax, however, at Fort Leonard Wood, the training was difficult, but definitely missing something. So much for my .02.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2015 2:51 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Feb 2015 14:51:14 -0500

Your voting options didn't leave much of a choice

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2015 4:09 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Feb 2015 16:09:24 -0500

Basic has become a factory, just pump out as many Soldiers as you can. The military needs to go back to only graduating quality Soldiers, heck even to the extent of only recruiting quality people to become Soldiers. STOP with the "its ok you cant read a map, shoot your weapon or pass a PT test, you will graduate and they will teach you at your unit"!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2015 4:20 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Feb 2015 16:20:25 -0500

Cut the leash, or cut sling load.

However, if soldiers are coming out of basic highly motivated, well disciplined and physically fit, then standards are being met. I don't see that being the rule, so, some extra attention may be needed.

C'mon, it's the Army.

Response by SGT Frank Leonardo made Feb 28 at 2015 7:32 PM

SGT Frank Leonardo — Sat, 28 Feb 2015 19:32:36 -0500

It should always be challanging or else we would have some week soldiers that can't make the cut with all things that ho on in the middle east

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2015 1:05 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Mar 2015 13:05:05 -0500

I honestly don't know why this is a question. I don't think the standards should have ever been lowered. These applicants need to realize they are joining America's fighting force and it should not be taken lightly. Recruit training should be intense, physically demanding and mentally demanding. They should reach their breaking point early and often and the Drill Instructors/Drill Sergeants should do everything in their power to build them up into the finest Marine/Soldier/Sailor/Airman/Coastie that they can. The Drill Instructors/Drill Sergeants are training their future replacements.
The future is always unknown especially when it comes to conflicts around the world so why would we weaken our military training which weakens our military?

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 3:10 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 15:10:33 -0500

I graduated from 2nd PLT Alpha 2-13 Ft Jackson March 1990. Never heard of anyone getting hit. Just a few bouncing off the lockers and cabinets in the Drill Sgt's office. Yes! Make it tougher.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 4:24 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 16:24:08 -0500

I myself was never hit and I went through in 2003, I think that the standards need to be tougher and the ones that are unable to make it weeded out before they ever make it to AIT. We end up chaptering alot of Soldiers out that should have never made it through basic.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 4:25 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 16:25:21 -0500

If every generation after I went, was correct that Basic is getting easier and easier, by now it would be taking place on a Caribbean Island and the focus would be on proper preparation of mixed drinks and how to get an even tan.

I suspect that it's usually just enough to get rid of most who are unsuitable for military service and not so much that they can't meet requirements.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Mar 2 at 2015 6:41 PM

CPT Zachary Brooks — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 18:41:40 -0500

Trophies for everyone! Yeah! Don't want to hurt anyone's feelings!

What a crock of shit that is. It needs to stress the soldiers so they can deal with the real stress of war.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 10:28 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 22:28:03 -0500

Private, if someone is assaulting you, it's not leadership. It's a felony and I would personally enjoy seeing a quick end to that person's career. Should the standard be higher? Perhaps. But what the DS's need is the ability to cut dead wood. We had a guy who was suicidal (or so he claimed) that the BN CDR wouldn't kick out. It took two privates screwing on family day to get anyone kicked out.

Response by CSM Patrick Durr made Feb 13 at 2019 11:30 PM

CSM Patrick Durr — Wed, 13 Feb 2019 23:30:48 -0500

SPC, Tone down your rhetoric on the manner in which service members are trained at Fort Jackson. You are in no means the Subject Matter Expert. And, stop spouting about your Infantry macho superiority on this queary and your other posts. Spend a little time in service, become a leader, learn why things are the way they are. Things a SPC would never know. Start enjoying the army instead of looking for fault everywhere.