Should an NCO or Instructor ever put his/her hands on a servicember to get a point across?

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Sep 2015 18:55:42 -0400

I've been combat arms 11 (Infantry; enlisted) and 19 (Armor; officer) series for 25 years and have never felt it necessary to put my hands on a soldier to get my point across. I understand a safety violation or situation may be an exception when injury needs to be prevented. Otherwise, I feel like assaulting a soldier to get a point across is piss poor leadership.
http://bootcamp4me.com/homepage-tab-3/drill-sergeant-tosses-soldier-to-ground-because-he-throws-like-a-girl/

Response by CDR Terry Boles made Sep 21 at 2015 7:09 PM

CDR Terry Boles — Mon, 21 Sep 2015 19:09:46 -0400

CPT Juan Zuluaga

I also agree that it is not necessary to put one's hands on a service member to get a point across. I can remember times when I was junior enlisted, young and stupid, and the senior LPO made their point and it stuck. Later as an LPO myself I can also remember doing the same to my junior enlisted. As an officer I have had even more unfortunate opportunities to set young officers straight.

As you said with the exception of hands on in the case of injury, or loss to life or limb. However to your point, leadership is many things and maintaining proper military bearing is essential and that too is a point that comes across.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Sep 21 at 2015 7:19 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Mon, 21 Sep 2015 19:19:18 -0400

After seeing the video, I have to ask "WTF?"

There are times when you need to "Immediately rectify an unsafe condition" and applying immediate force is the only option. Such as when a toddler is reaching for a hot stove.. or a troop is flagging someone with a weapon.

What happened with the troop in the video was not comparable to either of those things.

That was not training. That was assault.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 7:35 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Sep 2015 19:35:37 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member, short answer is no, but I've had to physically restrain two PLDC candidates back when I was an SGL. They were getting into a fight one night in the barracks and I had to put one of them in a rear restraining hold to stop the fight and then threaten to physically assault both of them if they didn't stop their foolishness. It wasn't my proudest moment but it was necessary.

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Sep 21 at 2015 7:43 PM

1LT William Clardy — Mon, 21 Sep 2015 19:43:40 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member, with all due respect, I think you are painting with an overly broad brush based upon a visceral reaction to a demonstration of non-leadership.

There are times and circumstances where a laying on of hands is not only good leadership, it gives the soldier involved the best chances for being motivated to actually reform without leaving a mark on his record. If you'll forgive me plugging a post of mine from a while back, I think it still presents a very cogent rationale:
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/how-do-i-approach-disrespect-towards-a-nco?urlhash=300866

How do I approach disrespect towards a NCO? | RallyPoint

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Response by SPC Mathew Brady made Sep 21 at 2015 8:45 PM

SPC Mathew Brady — Mon, 21 Sep 2015 20:45:12 -0400

Unfortunately in my career I was on the end of both. As an 11B we were taught there were no rules when it came to smoking the dog piss out of somebody. As a young soldier I arrived at a unit fresh off a deployment and my welcome to the army was constant hazing for no reason other than being a "cherry" which often included kicks to the gut during push ups or once even a black eye by our SFC. We weren't allowed sick call or anything, still did PT while having mono against doctors orders. After my first tour with that unit I luckily came down on orders and transferred to fort Lewis, WA where I quickly learned that's not what the real army is about. I learned what a good leader is and how to be one and only time I ever had to lay hands on a soldier under me was in self defense on CQ after picking up a drunk soldier at the gate for getting caught drinking and driving and having to subdue him until 1SG got there. There's great leaders in the army and horrible ones. In my time in too many of the great ones got out and I had to follow suit but I left the army with a good taste in my mouth because of my time at 1-23. The tomahawk brotherhood was like no other. I never missed my old unit one bit after getting there because of the amazing leadership we had.

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Sep 21 at 2015 9:57 PM

Sgt Kelli Mays — Mon, 21 Sep 2015 21:57:53 -0400

No! Never! Absolutely not!

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Sep 22 at 2015 1:01 AM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Tue, 22 Sep 2015 01:01:30 -0400

Outside of safety? Never.