Should all branches of the military wear a US flag on their uniform?

2014-06-29T23:33:57-04:00

Ok, I apologize in advance once again for bringing Civil Air Patrol into the mix, but an interesting and heated debate has arisen the last few days that might be relevant here.

-In 2007 CAP's national commander added the reverse american flag on the BDU uniform. This change was met with a lot of resistance, many people were not happy with the addition.

-A few days ago, CAP's new uniform manual began phasing the US flag out and once again, many people are upset, saying it's disrespectful to remove it from the uniform.

-Here's my opinion: The Army is the only branch that wears it, and CAP is not the Auxiliary of the Army. I read a few discussions about why most branches don't wear it and I agree. It is a work uniform and poses the risk of soiling or tearing the flag patch. I, as a Crew Chief understand this and would hate to have to replace it every time I spilled hydraulic fluid on it. The Army has it a little easier being their patches are Velcro so it can be easily replaced. I also heard by rumor that the Army was discussing removing the US flag as well. Is there any truth there or just rumor?

What are your opinions? Should all branches of the military wear a US flag on their uniform? Why do you support your opinion?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2014 11:34 PM

2014-06-29T23:34:31-04:00

Casting my own vote first.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jun 29 at 2014 11:45 PM

2014-06-29T23:45:25-04:00

The flag is there to identify you as a US service member. If the CAP needs to be identified as such, then by all means wear the flag.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2014 6:42 PM

2014-07-01T18:42:25-04:00

Not on your day top day clothes, it cause to much chance of damage to the flag, which should be avoided.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2014 8:40 AM

2014-07-23T08:40:28-04:00

While I understand the respect for the flag, the one on the uniform is NOT the flag that falls under the U.S. Flag Code. It is to be considered a flag printed article of clothing and acted upon as such. Allowing the patch to touch the ground or get dirty/greasy is not the same as letting the flag itself touch the ground; the patch is not even to federal standards for official flag dimensions, if my memory serves me correctly. Military forces across the globe wear their flags on their shoulders, and there is no reason we should not be doing the same.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2014 10:37 PM

2014-08-21T22:37:00-04:00

You're missing an option there SSgt Private RallyPoint Member;

"Army should wear the flag. Don't care what anyone else does"

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 20 at 2014 2:30 AM

2014-10-20T02:30:49-04:00

Hopefully I can provide some insight on this. I happen to do oversight for said organization for my reserve job. I am ina CAT-E PIRR position called CAP-RAPO or Reserve Assistance Program Officer for CAP-USAF which is the congressional mandated Air Force oversight arm for CAP.

Back in 2007 CAP had a very pretentious National Commander by the name of Anthony Peneda. He promoted himself to a (CAP) Major General. When previously that position was only authorized Brigadier Gen (CAP). He was hell bent on trying to make the organization look more like the real Air Force. CAP officers wear a distinctive modified version of the AF uniform by wearing Grey Epaulets both the Service Dress and Light Blue Shirt as well as having a distinctive hat device versus metal grade on the flight cap. On their BDU's they wear ultra marine blue name tapes and insignia's as to not be confused with an actual AF Officer.

Peneda did some changes like adding "US Civil Air Patrol" to the blue name tape instead of just Civil Air Patrol, which it has reverted back. He also invented a new CAP uniform that almost bridged our service dress. I will admit it actually looked more legit than ours ironically. He had a new Double Breasted Coat made where now they could finally wear those prized metal insignia on their shoulders versus the Grey Epaulets. They wore a white under shirt instead of a blue one, but now wore the AF regulation Blue Epaulets. The only thing that made it not appear to look like an AF uniform was that prior/current military serving in the program were not allowed to wear any federal military ribbons or devices. However if they were on base being that most of us rarely wear our service dress any way I could see people salutes to CAP Senior Members. That caused some contention with the USAF because since it was not on the official AF uniform we could not tell them no.
The flag was also the addition to the BDU to make it appear more military like. Since then Maj General (CAP) Peneda was 2B'd from the organization for cheating on an Air Command and Staff College (ACSC) test. Once the new leadership took over they decided to try clean house and their reputation by reverting back to the status quo.

I don't have a problem wearing the US flag on the BDU since they can wear it on their flight suits.

My overall opinion of the organization is this. Having graded two Opevals and directing 1. They are very professional at what they do when running incident command centers, executing SAR/DR missions from AFPRC or the state that they are in. However, every now and then I run into a goob who speaks to me as if I am subordinate to him. Not disrespectfully but just in a tone that sounds like he is talking to a subordinate officer. I had to correct a CAP member who called my assistant who happens to be a Reserve Senior Master Sergeant as Sergeant. I had to explain that SMSgt's are not called sergeants they are Seniors or Senior Master Sergeants. In the CAP-RAPO program we are unique in the sense that anyone from an E-5 to a Reserve O6 can be a CAP-RAPO. To the Cap personnel the oversight authority of any CAP-RAPO is the same no matter what grade they hold.

It drives me nuts every time I hear a CAP person bitch that they should be allowed to look like the real AF personnel. CAP should be proud at what they do but they should understand that wearing the USAF uniform is a privilege and not a right. A 2LT in CAP does not go through any officer accessions course unless they are an actual military officer. All that is required for 2Lt(CAP) is completion of the CCPT and SML1 training and wait 6 months.

Sorry for the tirade it drives off the wall when the very small few in that organization think they actual officers.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2014 3:27 PM

2014-11-03T15:27:36-05:00

I think it should be worn on uniforms.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2014 3:29 PM

2014-11-03T15:29:44-05:00

It seems only important when serving with foreign forces such as NATO. Or maybe we need it since so many foreign forces now wear our uniform?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2014 3:30 PM

2014-11-03T15:30:09-05:00

We should all wear it on our duty uniforms, but in garrison environments only.

Response by MAJ Dallas D. made Nov 3 at 2014 3:32 PM

2014-11-03T15:32:52-05:00

Downrange yes - Garrison no

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2015 6:20 PM

2015-01-13T18:20:36-05:00

I'm indifferent, but I will point out to you that the Army is NOT the only branch that wears the flag. Aircrew in AMC also wear the flag on the left shoulder. There are probably some other examples as well (any Navy folks want to chime in?), but I'm in ACC, where we have the wing patch on the left shoulder.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2015 6:46 PM

2015-01-13T18:46:47-05:00

Remove the reverse field, put in on the right way and make it part of the work uniform, or remove it all together.

Response by PV2 David Minnicks made Jan 15 at 2015 12:33 PM

2015-01-15T12:33:28-05:00

Whether your are wearing work, combat or dress uniform would not matter since when any uniform is soiled/stained permanently or if it were to become torn then the uniform needs repaired, replaced or retired. The argument of not affixing the US Flag for this reason is rubbish in my opinion. I also feel that all branches of the service as well as their auxiliaries should be displaying the US flag on their uniforms and I am also of the opinion that the US Flag should be permanently affixed to all uniforms and not be affixed in a fashion where the can be easily removed such as velcro.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2015 12:25 AM

2015-02-09T00:25:04-05:00

Prior to the Universal Camouflage Pattern (UCP) aka, ACUs, the only time that the US Flag was worn on the Army uniform (then Woodland BDU) was when a unit went into combat. It was sort of like a "combat patch." There was a whole flap about its placement because the actual SSI/FWTS was sewn right at the shoulder, and the US Flag was (then) sewn below the unit patch, which, according to US Flag etiquette (and the US Code) should not be done.

I think that the US Flag (subdued) should only be worn when deployed, on body armor or other outer garment. When we are in garrison, there is no question which nation we represent. That is the purpose of the flag on the uniform.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2015 8:35 AM

2015-03-07T08:35:49-05:00

I am going to say yes, except under special circumstances and never should a reason for not wearing it be because some other country or political party doesn't like us.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 8 at 2015 7:38 PM

2015-03-08T19:38:12-04:00

Works for the Army... but not sure that the other Branches do and why.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2015 8:04 PM

2015-03-08T20:04:07-04:00

I was in when the flag fiasco started. I don't know how many of you were in when we started to put them on our BDUs but it was not a fun time. Colored flags or subdued, which sleeve, it looked right when we ordered it But if you sew it on the right shoulder the stars are on the wrong side, etc.
It should be worn in a multinational environment where it matters. Not into something that can get caught, ripped, torn or dirty. Otherwise, if you need a reminder of what country you serve, I know every installation has a flag designated for that express purpose.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2015 11:04 AM

2015-03-09T11:04:52-04:00

It is my understanding that most, if not all, wear the flag on the uniform while deployed. I could be wrong. Can anyone verify?

I don't think it is necessary while stateside or in garrison at any given base outside of war zones.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Mar 9 at 2015 11:27 AM

2015-03-09T11:27:32-04:00

The Marine Corps doesn't wear it on utilities. We now have the name strips which identify you as a "U.S. Marine". Back in the day we only had the iron on USMC and EGA on the left breast pocket.

The Flag It is not worn on any dress uniform. The Marine Corps is not big on patches on uniforms, period. I think we all know we are serving in the US Armed Forces. I see no reason to add it but have no issue with the Army or CAP having it on theirs.

I do think it could get soiled and if sewn on could be a pain to remove and reapply. I don't see the Marine Corps going to velcro on uniforms any time soon.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2015 1:53 PM

2015-03-09T13:53:20-04:00

The Marine Corps doesn't wear flags or badges on its sleeves. The Red, White and Blue flag makes for a great target. The USMC on the pocket is all that is needed.

Response by PO2 Mark Saffell made Mar 9 at 2015 2:17 PM

2015-03-09T14:17:13-04:00

I may be incorrect here when it comes to history but I do not recall ever seeing the flag worn on a Navy uniform of any kind. I know we did not from 75 to 81 when I was in. Even the ship name worn on the shoulder was not done while I was in. That has come and gone a few times or history. Not sure it's part of the current uniform.

Response by SPC Mark Beard made Mar 9 at 2015 8:39 PM

2015-03-09T20:39:24-04:00

I think all services should wear the American flag on uniforms your an American man woman in the united States Military

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2015 9:43 PM

2015-03-09T21:43:18-04:00

I can remember when it was official that all Soldiers must wear the uniform as we are a nation at war. I never agreed with it as I'm from the the age of you only wear it while deployed to signify that you are deployed, going to deploy or just returned from deployment. I honestly think we should either wear the flag or take the U.S. off our uniform (just kidding). We should retire the American flag to our wat chest to await the next war you deploy in support of.

Response by COL Ted Mc made Mar 10 at 2015 2:20 AM

2015-03-10T02:20:10-04:00

I'm still waiting for a good answer to "Why does the Junior Accountant at the Pentagon wear camouflage uniforms?"

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made Mar 10 at 2015 8:14 AM

2015-03-10T08:14:48-04:00

I am indifferent but lean more toward no mainly because like others have said it could get dirty and need to be replaced. Not only that but most of our uniforms wouldn't look right with it, probably because the Army is the only one that we are used to seeing wear it but still.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2015 11:05 AM

2015-03-10T11:05:57-04:00

We should all be readily identifiable to all combatants of the world regardless of their language. Example: U.S. NAVY means nothing to a man that can't read English, but the flag is universal.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2015 5:09 PM

2015-03-10T17:09:07-04:00

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member . . . and here I thought the US Flag patch was originally intended to serve as an EO / IR / UV / LASER / Night Vision Optical Tag designed to reduce fratricide in the field. Warmest Regards, Sandy

Response by PO2 Tyler Arnold made Mar 10 at 2015 6:11 PM

2015-03-10T18:11:47-04:00

I believe all branches of the military should wear an American flag on their uniforms. I'm in the navy and my command wears them.

Response by PO2 David Hagwood made Mar 10 at 2015 8:44 PM

2015-03-10T20:44:27-04:00

I say not on working uniforms, this is why: Title 4 USC, Subsection 8, Paragraph (e) states that the flag should not be fastened displayed, used, or stored in a manner as to permit it to be torn soiled, or damaged in any way. While it looks great and very patriotic, it's called a work uniform for a reason: It is made to be soiled; therefore if you have our flag fastened to it -- it, too, will become soiled, damaged, or possibly torn.

Response by TSgt David Holman made Mar 12 at 2015 2:03 PM

2015-03-12T14:03:16-04:00

I take it a step further and say that all branches should wear the same uniform (at least the combat uniform/fatigue).

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Mar 12 at 2015 2:47 PM

2015-03-12T14:47:13-04:00

I have no problems with it either way. I know that many of the international military members that I saw deployed to Afghanistan had their flag on their uniform.....what I don't know is if that was only for deployment or if it was also home station. If I am told to put it on my uniform, I will wear it with pride. If it is not authorized, I will not put it on. That simple!

Response by PO1 Jeff Doan made Mar 15 at 2015 10:01 AM

2015-03-15T10:01:55-04:00

If they are US Armed Forces...they should advertise as such!

Response by PO1 John Miller made Mar 15 at 2015 10:21 PM

2015-03-15T22:21:03-04:00

I'm American and I love my country. With that said I feel no reason why the Navy should have to wear US Flag patches on their working uniforms. I don't feel the need to advertise to everybody "Hey look at me, I'm American!!!"

Response by SGT Logan Beckwith made Mar 19 at 2015 9:11 AM

2015-03-19T09:11:12-04:00

Do you fight for or stand for America? Then, yes, you should wear it, and wear it proudly. Get rid of the reverse flag, we are always charging forward.

Police, Firemen, Military, all volunteer forces that stand for the American way of life. That flag is for everyone, not just the Army. I was proud to wear it and I hope they would be too.

Response by Capt Brandon Charters made Apr 7 at 2015 12:53 AM

2015-04-07T00:53:33-04:00

I think it really depends which uniform. I voted in favor of the flag in this poll. In the USAF, it's just those in flight suits who are able to wear them on a daily basis.

I've always been quietly jealous of the US Army's assaulting flag. I think having the flag and a unit patch on adjacent shoulders is a great reminder of "one team, one fight."

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2015 8:00 AM

2015-04-08T08:00:40-04:00

In garrison, I am for it but I don't think that it really matters all that much. While many have pointed out that it is obvious who were serve (to Americans), I can see where it would be advantageous in overseas garrisons. Almost every other country wears their flag proudly. As many different uniforms as we have, I can see it being a bit confusing for some.

When deployed, I think everyone should wear an IR version of the flag. The Navy has recently started issuing the IR versions of the US flag and Gadsden flag. The AF wears IR flags on their multicams. We wear them on our uniforms. The Marines seem to be the only ones (even though I did see a Marine in Navy Type IIs the other day....took me a bout three looks to understand what I was looking at). The IR version serves two practical purposes: it is less obvious when we are attempting to maintain concealment, but assists with friendly forces identification under IR conditions. Wearing the flag alone helps identify us and what nation we fall under which can be valuable. The Brits and Aussies now have multicam based uniforms which could really create confusion for some.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2015 8:18 AM

2015-04-08T08:18:48-04:00

Nope, only the U.S. Army should since our acronym is 'USA'. Just kidding, people.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2015 8:23 AM

2015-04-08T08:23:38-04:00

We wear them in NSW. American flag on right shoulder, Don't Tread on Me on the left.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2015 10:22 AM

2015-04-08T10:22:55-04:00

I think it shows a unity between branches if everyone wears it.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2015 5:49 PM

2015-04-08T17:49:14-04:00

It makes sense in an international environment but on US soil at US bases seems redundant.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Dec 13 at 2015 2:09 AM

2015-12-13T02:09:56-05:00

Wouldn't look good on Dungarees. There is a place and appropriate location for everything and the Flag isn't necessarily a good match with all the various uniforms we use and wear.