Should active duty leaders be evaluated by how well their troops succeed in getting a civilian job the first year post-ETS?

2016-08-17T19:15:12-04:00

Should active duty leaders be held responsible by their raters if they don't ensure their troops are prepared for success as civilians? I'm sure some military leaders limit civilian job search activities because they want their troops to focus on their current mission. However, many military leaders aren't qualified to help their troops get a job they haven't held themselves. What do you think?

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Aug 17 at 2016 7:16 PM

2016-08-17T19:16:39-04:00

NO! What does getting a Civilian Job have to do with Military leaders...to do with your commander and anyone above you? Why should they be held accountable for whether one of their subordinates can get a civilian job or not.
It should be up to the person who is getting out...they should look into what is available....what they want to do....Do like I did....My entire time in the Military, I went to night school....all year around....when I got out, I had the education and tools necessary for me to get a job.
The person getting out should prepare themselves....The military could also search and provide classes/materials/education on how to approach civilian life.

Response by SFC George Smith made Aug 17 at 2016 7:19 PM

2016-08-17T19:19:41-04:00

No, Not their Job....

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 7:20 PM

2016-08-17T19:20:11-04:00

That's just silly. How can you hold military leaders to the fickle employment market? How can you hold military leaders responsible for the low-performing soldiers who leave service? Gaining good soldiers is a flip of the coin. The decision of first term soldiers to leave is often out of the commanders control.

Response by Col Dona Marie Iversen made Aug 17 at 2016 7:21 PM

2016-08-17T19:21:24-04:00

Nope!

Response by GySgt Moses Lozano made Aug 17 at 2016 7:23 PM

2016-08-17T19:23:16-04:00

What a silly suggestion! How about holding all officers responsible for how they keep up with the Fitness Reports they do for their troops? If that were to ever happen, a lot of officers both senior and junior would be relieved.

Response by SPC Carlos R. made Aug 17 at 2016 7:23 PM

2016-08-17T19:23:18-04:00

Nope. Self drive and determination of the individual soldier.

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made Aug 17 at 2016 7:35 PM

2016-08-17T19:35:13-04:00

Nope. Sort of wierd and hugely invasive and a beuracraxy that won't quit.

Response by Maj John Bell made Aug 17 at 2016 7:36 PM

2016-08-17T19:36:18-04:00

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 7:53 PM

2016-08-17T19:53:30-04:00

This is a very complex question one that honestly fairly cannot be put on the shoulders of the Company commander alone. There are a few issues here so let's break down a few of them.
1. The way I'm reading this question, it presumes an unrealistic view of command. I am a Commander but I do not command alone. I have a right-hand who is my first sergeant and a left-hand who is my executive officer. I also have Platoon sergeants, squad leaders, platoon leaders, and many others. We are all part of the leadership in that company. Ultimately the commander is responsible for everything but we must be honest about who is involved with leading the unit and coaching, teaching and mentoring soldiers. That being said, there has been a tendency in recent years for commanders to be told who to put in leadership positions within the company. Sometimes this is at the direction by big army and a company commander has no say. Your success as a commander is directly tied to the leaders who work under and with you. When you were forced to hire anyone for any reason other than they are the best candidate that system breaks down and not because of the failure of the company command.
2. If you were going to try and judge the commander for the ability of the soldier to secure a job later you need to also determine the reason the soldier is leaving the service. Are you going to hold a Commander responsible for soldier getting separated for commission of a crime or use of illegal drugs? Are you going to hold a commander responsible for soldier who is separated for poor performance? Poor performance in the military doesn't dictate poor performance later. But it certainly said something about their performance in general. Are you going to hold a commander responsible for the success of a soldier who is being thrown out by the military for the purpose of downsizing? Certainly the commander has no say when Washington says trim the force. Naturally the nature of his release from the military is a critical factor in his ability to secure a job. A dishonorable discharge is quite career limiting. The characterization of discharge is not always the commanders decision.
3. The commander also had no say in what MOS the soldier choose. If I choose to drive tanks for a living, it is not the commander's fault that their aren't lots of jobs for civilian tank drivers. Let's be honest about the limitations of a commanders power and the responsibilities of the individual who chose that MOS.

Overall I like your thought that the Army has an obligation to help prepare all soldiers regardless of rank for their next career particularly when the Army is downsizing for the fiscal convenience of the country. A special obligation exist between a citizen who surrenders their rights and is willing to risk their very life for their country. As a country the statistics on veteran joblessness, veteran homelessness , and veteran underemployment speak volumes about the problem which has reached monstrous proportions. Commanders do have an obligation to do what they can to help ease the transition between military and civilian life but this problem and issue must be dealt with on a national scale for we are failing our military service members.

Response by SGT James Hammons made Aug 17 at 2016 7:53 PM

2016-08-17T19:53:45-04:00

This is an interesting question. Of course the leader can find out what resources are available for soldiers that are getting out and put them in touch with veterans groups that can help. But as for being rated, There is no way to know what each individual soldier is going to do when they get out. Some leave the service with mental issues that may have been seen as a weakness when they were in so they kept it quiet. Some will be great at civilian life. Officers should be rated on their Military Leadership Skills, and not social work skills. Officers should lead from the front and be fair and direct with soldiers. Keeping the soldier trained and able to make it through the battle will benefit them in their life after military.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 8:01 PM

2016-08-17T20:01:58-04:00

Active duty leaders should be evaluated on how prepared their units are to engage and destroy our adversaries or support others who are engaging and destroying our adversaries, while taking minimal casualties.

That said, there are other activities which should be helping troops prepare for the civilian world. The education center, career counselors, ACAP, and others should be helping soldiers prepare for civilian life.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Aug 17 at 2016 8:17 PM

2016-08-17T20:17:48-04:00

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
No, a leader shouldn't be held accountable for how ex-service members do on the outside. Going civilian is a different mind set where many of the attitudes and military ways don't work as well with some civilian employers. The "leadership" can put the information forward to service members leaving, make it available to them, but it doesn't mean they will be successful.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 8:18 PM

2016-08-17T20:18:23-04:00

No but they should a lot them the time to check out

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 8:26 PM

2016-08-17T20:26:49-04:00

I don't think so. Active duty leaders must be concerned with the mission of their unit. Preparing folks to leave the service seems counter productive.

Response by Maj Marty Hogan made Aug 17 at 2016 8:35 PM

2016-08-17T20:35:38-04:00

No. Who would amass the info and what does it say about a former leader. It is also a person's responsibility to be ready for the next phase of their lives/career.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Aug 17 at 2016 8:44 PM

2016-08-17T20:44:27-04:00

No, the military needs to spend time preparing to defend the nation not conducting job searches for those deciding to leave. No employer in the country provides a service like this. It would be one more distraction for the armed forces which is becoming completely distracted already.

Response by SSG Jeremy Sharp made Aug 17 at 2016 8:47 PM

2016-08-17T20:47:14-04:00

The commander's responsibility is mission accomplishment. In doing this, an effective commander empowers, develops and mentors subordinate leaders. The reason soldiers separate from service are varied and the commander has no bearing of responsibility for the employment goals, potential, ambition or success of each and every soldier he or she commands. Substandard soldiers may do poorly in the civilian job market based on the same reason they left service. Commanders have little choice over those assigned to their units or the mos the soldier chose which may have been beyond their scope of understanding or their level of technical proficiency. A soldier's success in the job market is based more on his/her own personal initiative, motivation, vocation and job performance. All of these are individual traits that are of little influence by unit commanders who may have had little if any direct contact with the troop while they were in service.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Aug 17 at 2016 8:53 PM

2016-08-17T20:53:45-04:00

CPT David Gowel "What do you think?"
What do I think?, well since you asked.....I think the phrase "Personal Responsibility" applies.
I think the Nation, the US Army, the chain of command has ZERO responsibility in what a Soldier does or does not accomplish after they leave the service.
I think if a Soldier getting ready to transition requests time to go through an offered transition class, course, briefing, then the CofC should consider it as mission allows and regulations require. approving if at all possible and always when required.
I think a SM transitioning out knows that well in advance and should be saving up some personal leave, that when used with permissive TDY which is specifically designed to aid in house hunting and job search during the transition period can set themselves up for success if they take personal responsibility of there life, actions and needs.
I think a reasonable request for a 4 day pass to go do a scheduled job interview, application process test, screening or the like can be reasonably supported without impacting the units mission a good commander would approve such a pass request.
And I absolutely think it is absurd to hold the chain of command responsible for what a former Soldier does after he leaves the service.
Assist with transition? Absolutely.
Approve duty time for all required transition activities? . Of course.
Approve duty time for non required transition activities, that the SM has a solid plan to effectively utilize? Whenever possible.
Provide awareness, support, training and guidence for an upcoming transition like they would for career progression.. Of course.
But the success or failure of that SM post service is clearly and completely a personal responsibility of that SM and no other.

Response by SMSgt Roy Dowdy made Aug 17 at 2016 9:02 PM

2016-08-17T21:02:14-04:00

Absolutely not!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 9:20 PM

2016-08-17T21:20:25-04:00

Not at all. What's the cliche again? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Commanders can give them time to ACAP, visit the Ed Center, etc, but they can only do so much. Even as a squad leader I would encourage my soldiers to set themselves up for success by taking college classes and what not, but a lot of them blew it off. Some folks would rather play video games or hit up the club nightly, than to prepare for the future. Personally I sacrificed a lot of "fun time" to knock out college classes in the little bit of spare time I had. It took me 12 years to piece together my Bachelor's degree. A lot of troops don't have that kind of drive and there's only so much leaders can do.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 9:30 PM

2016-08-17T21:30:33-04:00

No.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Aug 17 at 2016 9:53 PM

2016-08-17T21:53:04-04:00

It's an absurd notion, CPT David Gowel.

Response by SFC Everett Oliver made Aug 17 at 2016 9:55 PM

2016-08-17T21:55:26-04:00

No Sir. I don't know about the military today but I was taught and passed on to my Jr NCO's that the military mission was first and foremost, right up until the day you cleared. Back then your job in the civilian world was on you and what ever support you found on the outside. When I retired the only help I got was an offer to stay where i was as a civilian... I turned it down..

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 10:13 PM

2016-08-17T22:13:01-04:00

No.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 10:22 PM

2016-08-17T22:22:38-04:00

No. But I would like to see command evaluations take into account how many of their soldiers obtained civilian certifications, comparable to their MOS, while in their command (applicable positions). If a soldier is allowed to work on military aircraft/vehicles/ or other soldiers, why wouldn't you want them to be achieve more education/certification in their field? Just an idea though.

Response by LCpl Tad Cunningham made Aug 18 at 2016 12:50 AM

2016-08-18T00:50:11-04:00

Fuck no, the Marine Corps has TRS that pounds shit into your head so even the dumbest motherfucker can at least not die in the civilian world. The job of being a leader ends when your junior enlisted get out. You can choose to help the ones you like. Don't have to

Response by TSgt Melissa Post made Aug 18 at 2016 2:28 AM

2016-08-18T02:28:57-04:00

I have only been in the Air Force for a little more than 5 years. I have had 7 supervisors so far... which one should to get the credit/blame?

I don't think that it is the supervisor's responsibility to ensure the success of their troops past or present. Yes they have a responsibility to uphold to show their troops how to succeed but once they are no longer in their care, it is not their problem and even while in their care there is only so much you can do to help. I was in charge of 8 airmen when I was in tech school. Each weekend I would tell them to be safe, make smart choices, and if you need me for anything I am here for you. I "lost" four of them because they chose to drink underage and possibly do drugs. How many times had I guided them away from making stupid choices? Many, but they continued to make that decision on their own, knowing the consequences.

I don't know how it is for the Army, but in the Air Force we have to take TAPS class before we get out and an Informed Decision class a year or more before our contract expires. They advise us to start making preparations at least a year in advance if we are planning on getting out and to have multiple backup plans.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 3:15 AM

2016-08-18T03:15:33-04:00

I believe that leaders are already evaluated on preparing subordinates for life as a civilian.

What that service members chooses to do with their life when they get out however should not be placed on the shoulders of their past leaders.

Imagine a someone who gets out of the military, then starts smoking weed and playing video games all day. No way should anyone career be impacted negatively when that person can't manage to hold down a decent job after.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 4:38 AM

2016-08-18T04:38:42-04:00

Getting out of the military is not part of our mission statement nor should it be used as an evaluation factor. Anyone can succeed in civilian life if they have drive, skill's aren't as important as work ethic.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 5:14 AM

2016-08-18T05:14:50-04:00

No they should not be responsible. That is an individual effort. Before a person enlist into any branch of military, they already have set in their minds how many years they plan to do ie initial 3 or full 20 years. I constantly stress to service members to take different classes or get certified in something that will be beneficial in the civilian sector.

Response by SFC John Hill made Aug 18 at 2016 7:54 AM

2016-08-18T07:54:58-04:00

NO, the Army has mandatory transition programs, i.e. ACAP, that help prepare soldiers for return to civilian life. It is not the responsibility of their Chain of Command, other than ensure the service member attends those classes.

Response by SCPO Jason McLaughlin made Aug 18 at 2016 8:10 AM

2016-08-18T08:10:49-04:00

Can the same leader delay the ETS if he/she feels the members is not ready?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 10:47 AM

2016-08-18T10:47:53-04:00

Absolutely not.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 11:11 AM

2016-08-18T11:11:23-04:00

An absolutely asinine premise. Perhaps we should evaluate pastors on the location of their parishoners post mortem!?!

Response by GySgt Carl Rumbolo made Aug 18 at 2016 11:29 AM

2016-08-18T11:29:21-04:00

Please....can we stop with the non-sensical questions. 1. How do you track this and how does it impact military readiness and military proficiency? 2. How do you sort out those individuals who are simply not qualified, don't put any effort into getting employment. 3. How do take into account the state of the job market.

This is basically a troll question, without any value, a nonsensical idea without an realistic appraisal of practicality

Response by SSgt Boyd Welch made Aug 18 at 2016 12:06 PM

2016-08-18T12:06:31-04:00

The commander/leader's mission is to fly/fight/support and provide troops who can... not to take responsibility for people who are discharging/retiring. There are career counselors and job coaches (civilians for that).

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Aug 18 at 2016 12:42 PM

2016-08-18T12:42:22-04:00

There are several transitioning programs, mentor ships, and help programs for separating troops but at the end of the day, you may your own life.

Response by MSgt Ken Bergmann made Aug 18 at 2016 2:06 PM

2016-08-18T14:06:26-04:00

You need to lay off the weed there brother.... Active duty leaders ONLY mission is to ensure their troops are prepared to do their job and do it perfect in any situation, ensure their troops are trained and supported as needed.Period. dot. end of sentence. not worry if Pvt Snuffy is gonna get a job at burger king or at a fortune 500 company... the focus on bullshit like this is why our military is falling apart and these kids are more focused on their lives after the military instead of being mindful of the present...

Response by MSgt James Mullis made Aug 18 at 2016 2:14 PM

2016-08-18T14:14:17-04:00

No!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 2:31 PM

2016-08-18T14:31:28-04:00

Would a "leader" at IBM or McDonald's ever be held to this metric? Absolutely not. Focus on the task at hand. There are plenty of issues right now.

Response by LT Louis McKellar made Aug 18 at 2016 2:32 PM

2016-08-18T14:32:23-04:00

No. I retired in 1994 and there was a Transition Assistance Program. I don't think it's the role of the leaders to transition subordinates to civilian life.

Response by SGT Jason Keefer made Aug 18 at 2016 2:38 PM

2016-08-18T14:38:20-04:00

I feel like this is a tricky position... first you have to remove a lot of the roadblocks that keep SM's from attending school while serving.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 4:43 PM

2016-08-18T16:43:45-04:00

No, but I believe the army still has a gap to close. The retiring experience can be a rush of activity to an uncertain future. ACAP, by whatever name, is a better tool than it has ever been, but we as an institution are still having a difficult time translating Soldier discipline and experience into the civilian world. No army officer should shoulder that burden on an individualized basis.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Aug 18 at 2016 5:02 PM

2016-08-18T17:02:36-04:00

No!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 5:31 PM

2016-08-18T17:31:14-04:00

Absolutely not. It's hard enough tracking your troop's careers when they're in your unit. When a soldier is in the service, we, as leaders, have some responsibility for them. The minute they sign their 214, all responsibility is theirs. When they leave, there is always another Joe taking their place and we as leaders must refocus our energy to ensure they become a part of the team and are provided the tools to succeed. I can't be responsible if they refuse to use those tools while under my guidance. I surely can't be responsible for them when they leave.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2016 1:17 AM

2016-08-19T01:17:57-04:00

Not even close. Active duty leaders should be graded on how excellently they carry out their mission for as little tax payer money as possible. 100% sortie generation? Win. For 80% of the cost of last year? Put a star on that Colonel... That said, there should also be a reward system for booting clowns out of the service, regardless of their quality of life in the civilian world. You processed (5) E-2s with terrible attitudes, no work ethic, and no output, out of the service? Put a star on that Colonel...

Response by CPT Thomas Isaacs made Aug 19 at 2016 9:57 PM

2016-08-19T21:57:15-04:00

No!

Response by CPT A.J. Emerson made Sep 18 at 2016 10:28 PM

2016-09-18T22:28:37-04:00

The Army as a whole is now making this subject a priority. The program is called the Soldier for Life program. I had the pleasure of working at the Fort Sill Soldier for Life Transition Complex during my last 6 months in. It's still early in its process, but we had companies in trucking, Veterans in Piping, Ryder, robotics companies, and others coming in and setting up training programs for departing soldiers in their last 6months of service. The programs conducted classroom and on the road training right in base and had the support of all HR and post leadership departments. I watched the program set many many soldiers up for success. Commands have some discretion as they would only endorse soldiers who maintained a good character and were receiving honorable discharges. It was a great thing and I'm certain that it has only gotten better. I was so moved by its success that I'd have to say, second to my time in Afghanistan, it was my favorite time in.

Response by CPT A.J. Emerson made Sep 18 at 2016 10:33 PM

2016-09-18T22:33:23-04:00

Also, to answer you specific question. The answer is sort of. The army is tracking soldiers close to ets. Of those soldiers, bde and post commands are looking at those who qualify for the programs I mentioned before and are ensuring that those that qualify are given the opportunity to take advantage of what's being offered in those programs.

Response by CPT John Ferrie made Oct 20 at 2016 8:23 PM

2016-10-20T20:23:58-04:00

Once you are in the military, especially in a combat zone, it is hard to work as a civilian! The only answer is to work for yourself! Civilian jobs are too boring unless you are a cop.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2016 11:44 AM

2016-10-21T11:44:00-04:00

Let the military services put more effort into gaining civilian professional certifications coinciding with their military duties. Or, at least their Duty MOS.

Response by SSG Joseph Callan made Oct 21 at 2016 12:26 PM

2016-10-21T12:26:19-04:00

Absolutely not! How would that be measured anyway?

Response by SSG Chris Morrison made Oct 21 at 2016 12:47 PM

2016-10-21T12:47:44-04:00

I always forced guys to prepare to get out because I had a break in service and didn't get to do ACAP because on recruiting my COC didn't think it necessary to send me to Fort Knox. I fell flat on my face new baby no job. Got back in the army six months later. I'm retired now been out a few years went through ACAP got prepared now I work as a maintenance engineer for the 3rd largest construction company making almost six figures and I don't have to break a sweat or get dirty to do it.

I always hated when a soldier was almost out and instead of preparing for the last month you just have to have him for a week to do ammo guard. Do for them as you would want done for you.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2016 1:01 PM

2016-10-21T13:01:40-04:00

Haha.....abosutely not. If someone wants to piss their life away after the military, why should I get blamed?

Response by LCpl Todd Houston made Oct 21 at 2016 1:34 PM

2016-10-21T13:34:57-04:00

No. Not possible. My command did everything in its power to curb my drinking. However, it did not stop a dui 4 months after I got out. Or another one 10 years later. I only stopped drinking when I did something about it. Me being an alcoholic is no different than someone failing at being a civilian employee because they wont do what they need to to change either.

Response by LTC Trent Klug made Oct 21 at 2016 3:26 PM

2016-10-21T15:26:55-04:00

What a stupendous idea! I think you should be the pilot program lead on this.
Since you're a veteran, I think that for every soldier who was under your command who didn't find a job that first year out, you should have a federal tax lien of $100 for each unemployed soldier.

This has to be one of the most stupifying posts I've seen on Rally Point. I hope this good idea fairy was hunted downed, drawn and quartered, and its remains sent to the four corners of the planet.

Idiocracy was a movie, not a how to training film.

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Oct 21 at 2016 4:37 PM

2016-10-21T16:37:56-04:00

No... different environment. Should we hold High Schools to that standard as well? Yeah... sure.., the UNIONs would LOVE that!

Response by PO3 Ronald Lenning made Oct 21 at 2016 11:10 PM

2016-10-21T23:10:12-04:00

Yes

Response by CPT Dion Francis made Oct 23 at 2016 10:48 PM

2016-10-23T22:48:41-04:00

Heck no. Train to fight.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Oct 27 at 2016 6:44 PM

2016-10-27T18:44:38-04:00

Sp4 Byron Skinner…The question is absurd. The Military is not a finishing school nor is it an employment preparation school. The Mission of the military is to defend the United States and to go where the President tells them to do what he says. Military officers are not employment counselors their job is to lead men and women in life or death situations, thats enough responsibility…There is one thing in the area of future employment the military can do. Currently, thanks to a Clinton era law the DoD can not track retired officers employment after they have retired. The military should be able to track the employment of former officers for at least ten years and see who is going to work for civilian contractors who they dealt with while in uniform and be able to bring that officer back and court marshall him/her if there is any conflict of interest or corrupt active that took place while on active duty.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2017 3:17 AM

2017-02-17T03:17:40-05:00

Tough question to answer, because there is no definitive yes or no. ETS'ing/retiring Soldiers should be afforded every opportunity to prepare themselves for life after the military. If they're still pulling stupid details and duties that should be done by those who are not getting out, then that's a command fail. How things go for that Soldier in the months and weeks leading out can determine how well they succeed once they're out.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Jul 17 at 2017 8:34 AM

2017-07-17T08:34:25-04:00

It should be no more a commander or any other leaders to be responsible for You finding other employment beyond the service. That would be like if You changed jobs as a civilian having Your old employer find You a new job, that up to You and no one else. Its the job of Military leaders to keep them prepared for their Military occupation and the mission and how can anyone expect them to be in any way responsible for what You do or don't do after You have left the Armed Forces ? At some point people have to take responsibility for themselves and prepare for their own civilian occupation, don't expect everyone to take You by the hand a guide You through life, thats Your job !

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Jul 18 at 2017 1:56 AM

2017-07-18T01:56:02-04:00

absolutely not - at some point personal responsibility and accountability needs to be assumed by the individual. Bad enough NCO's and Junior Officers are accountable when one of their Soldiers does something stupid even after safety briefs, and counselings - punishing leaders for actions the separating soldier fails to do is unjust and not a proactive way to solve the issue. there ARE a ton of programs available through the ACAP system to ensure separating Soldiers have opportunities and preference for educational and employment endeavors. Our job is to ensure they go through the ACAP process, it is their job to take advantage of the opportunities.

Response by SGT(P) Michael H. made Aug 1 at 2017 9:40 AM

2017-08-01T09:40:18-04:00

No. Not all of us go out and step back into another "job" upon exit from active duty. Some of us have gone the way of the entrepeneur, and are working over the next 2-5 yrs to build something for ourselves and our families that does not equate to "job". There may not be immediate results, but the long term rewards are many, and we see this and embrace it. It would be unfair to any leaders to be judged on this aspect. Now, that is not to say that the leaders shouldn't assist at all...in point of fact, they should help in any way they can. I just don't think it should affect any ratings. After all, it is the troop's choice to leave AD, not the leader's.

Response by SGT Charles Napierala made Aug 14 at 2017 3:00 PM

2017-08-14T15:00:02-04:00

Hell to the no. I ETSed from the army so I don't have to deal with these 'commanders' and 'leaders' anymore. Why would I want my previous 'leader' blowing up my phone, blowing up my email, and harassing me post-service to make sure I'm still trying to make him/her look good?
Now imagine if I had felt that I was wronged by my leader when I was in the service and I was a spiteful little man. I could decide to live off the welfare of my family, refuse to get a job, and twiddle my thumbs for a year to detriment a career-soldier's rating. What does that get in the end? A veteran thatnneeds to explain a 1-year working gap on their resume and a career-soldier who's rating is now in question.

When you leave a job in the privatized sector, your prior employer doesn't get rated for your future success outside of their company, so why should the military be any different?

This also isn't practical. You're trying to tell these recently-freed brand new civilians that they need to report to their past military leaders about the direction they're going with their new privatized life? As if the army wasn't invasive enough while enlisted, now veterans need to worry about them invading our privacy and harassing us outside of the military too?

We also need to remember that a lot of these soldiers, especially career soldiers, have been in the military for x amount of years and their privatized experience, if they even have any, is way outdated and have the potential to produce more harm than good. My favorite piece of 'advice' in the military was the blanketed 'being late' advice: If you're late to the 15-minutes pre-formation formation, then you'd be fired in the civilian world. I'm not sure what civilian-sector company this person worked for, but if I clock in 15 minutes prior to my scheduled time, I'd be written up, counseled, or fired. Companies aren't going to pay you an extra 15 minutes worth of pay to sit around and make sure you're there.

TL;DR: Keep the army's invasion of privacy within the ranks. Senior leaders are experts at army stuff, not civilian stuff, so their advice may not be applicable.