Should a LT stand at ease for a 1SG or CSM?

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 10:46:17 -0400

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2014 10:47 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 10:47:34 -0400

Negative Ghostrider, the pattern is full.

Response by MAJ Ron Peery made Jun 6 at 2014 10:54 AM

MAJ Ron Peery — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 10:54:02 -0400

That would be a violation of protocol. LT's need to learn from their NCO's, not be subordinate to them.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Jun 27 at 2014 7:40 PM

CMSgt James Nolan — Fri, 27 Jun 2014 19:40:48 -0400

There is nobody in uniform who should not respect and provide some deference to the various E-9s (regardless of the level-I.E. Brigade, Command etc) If you make it to E9, no matter what, you have steered your career in an amazing fashion. The percentage who make E9 is so small. The E9 mafia can move mountains and are a force not worth angering (because they can/will cause heartache).

That said, the bootest, greenest, rookiest 2ndLt out ranks the crustiest E9. Just the way it is.

An E9 can and should do damn near anything they want. That does not mean LT goes to parade rest. It does mean that less than 3 years of service should pay a hell of a lot of attention to more than likely 20+.

Just sayin'

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Jun 27 at 2014 9:56 PM

SPC Charles Brown — Fri, 27 Jun 2014 21:56:59 -0400

LTC Private RallyPoint Member talk about variation on a theme. And it seems that this one theme has been done to death. I respect your rank sir, but please let this type of question die a quick and painful death. lol

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2014 11:36 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Jun 2014 23:36:42 -0400

My PSG, Several SLs and an RTO got verbally abused by the 1SG when CSM walked into our CP, and no one called "At Ease." I was sitting in my office (also in the CP), and my PSG was under the impression "At Ease" was not required, as a Commissioned Officer was already in the room. Regardless, all of the Soldiers stood up and went to Parade Rest before addressing the CSM. After CSM left, 1SG let them have it before I kindly stepped in and reminded him privately that the Soldiers were merely doing what the regulations required and meant no disrespect. It seems all units are different when it comes to how much they worship/don't their senior leaders. It would be a lot simpler if we all just followed customs and courtesies per regulations.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jun 28 at 2014 6:27 AM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Sat, 28 Jun 2014 06:27:32 -0400

A 1LT and CSM walk in early to staff call and seated at the table are a 2LT and Top - What happens next to avoid a Mexican standoff?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2014 9:33 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Jun 2014 09:33:51 -0400

Oh, Sir......

Response by COL Jonas Vogelhut made Jun 28 at 2014 10:54 AM

COL Jonas Vogelhut — Sat, 28 Jun 2014 10:54:23 -0400

Respect for 1SGs, SGMs, and CSMs does not end at 1LT or CPT. Many of us LTCs and COLs defer discussion when a SGM is talking. That respect continues...they have earned it. It may not be written in regulation, but I compare it to the same respect to parents, teachers, clergy, etc.

As for the silly question above about saluting, I bet the SGM will be quick to salute the LT..that is the discipline the Army has taught us all. So that LT better be ready to return the salute...and a crisp one!

Response by SFC Istvan Nagy made Jun 28 at 2014 11:45 AM

SFC Istvan Nagy — Sat, 28 Jun 2014 11:45:08 -0400

No, but he/she should show respect.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2014 12:37 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 19 Jul 2014 00:37:59 -0400

I am curious how many responses and votes have resulted from one question. The question that we know better to speak of. I didn't even know this question was here. I am sure half of all RP posts were influenced in some way from "The Question"

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2014 3:15 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 19 Jul 2014 03:15:18 -0400

CSM's will always render a salute for us LT's. The best thing a LT can do is return the most crispiest, sharpest salute ever when anyone salutes them. I am tired of seeing officers do these half ass salutes with no response as if the salute is ONLY for them. It is a sign of respect for both sides.

That being said, I choose to stand at east if I am talking to a CSM unless they tell me to relax. I do this to show that I am at full attention at what they are talking to me about because I respect their experience and knowledge.

My old commander at my last unit actually called the company to "at ease" when the BN CSM came into the room. I thought that was pretty cool. Soldiers may be confused but once you clarify the amount of respect you have for the senior enlisted, they understand why we do it.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2014 12:10 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Jul 2014 00:10:54 -0400

No! As has been stated very clearly by several below -- show respect, but not subordination.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2014 11:14 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Jul 2014 23:14:28 -0400

Oddly enough I just googled 2LT meme and found this.

Response by SGT Jonathan Williams made Jul 21 at 2014 1:35 AM

SGT Jonathan Williams — Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:35:54 -0400

I don't believe so. I would definitely look askance if I witnessed this. The LT outranks the CSM, but it would do for the new officers to heed the guidance of NCOs. I was taught that NCOs mentor... including officers. There is a dynamic relationship formed.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2014 5:57 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:57:26 -0400

I think that Lt's should out of sheer respect because most likely a 2nd lt was born after an e9 got in. The old joke rings through this what does a 2nd lt and pv1 have in common, time in svc.

Response by PFC Zanie Young made Jul 24 at 2014 7:06 PM

PFC Zanie Young — Thu, 24 Jul 2014 19:06:53 -0400

No. No officer should not stand at Parade Rest before a senior NCO. Both should have mutual respect. In the case of the LT, respect the senior NCO's experience, in the case of the senior NCO, respect the LT's rank. Then again, I was a private, so what do I know?

Response by MAJ Matthew Aiken made Jul 24 at 2014 8:46 PM

MAJ Matthew Aiken — Thu, 24 Jul 2014 20:46:05 -0400

Of course the LT should not stand at ease for the E8/9, however; the LT should know when to yield the floor to pay attention to the lesson the senior NCO may bestow.

Quick story:
I received a commission after my first full enlistment and a job I competed for was Aide de Camp to a 1-star. I got the job and everything that came with it; to include the CSM. I learned so much during that job from both the Old Man and the CSM. It wasn't about reminding each other of rank; it's on the collar. It was about earning each other's respect thru deeds, dedication, and duty. I also learned the importance of having 2 ears and 1 mouth; to listen twice as long as I talk.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 21 at 2014 12:53 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Nov 2014 00:53:40 -0500

COL Jonas Vogelhut hit the nail on the head. That respect is earned.

Response by SPC James Mcneil made Jan 20 at 2015 3:20 PM

SPC James Mcneil — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 15:20:46 -0500

IF I had gone the officer route and become a 2LT, I would have stood at ease for a 1SG or SGM simply because of the respect I have for the rank. I'm sure I would have gotten some odd looks for it.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2015 5:57 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Feb 2015 17:57:21 -0500

CPT (Brian) Sir.....one should always be at ease when showing respect with those you truly respect. I wouldn't let you stand there for long!

Response by Cpl Brett Wagner made Feb 26 at 2015 6:03 PM

Cpl Brett Wagner — Thu, 26 Feb 2015 18:03:08 -0500

Hell no! That LT should be locked at attention in front of the SgtMaj.

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Feb 26 at 2015 6:08 PM

Capt Mark Strobl — Thu, 26 Feb 2015 18:08:03 -0500

Honestly, I don't understand some of the Army's traditions (e.g. saluting indoors). But, I'd say this: Respect should always be reciprocated. When an enlisted man renders a salute to an officer, the officer should professionally return the salute (sorry to be obvious). But, the point is both are, effectively, saluting each other. Whenever respect is demonstrated, to include posture, we are acknowledging the other's by giving it right back to 'em.

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Feb 28 at 2015 8:13 AM

CW5 Sam R. Baker — Sat, 28 Feb 2015 08:13:44 -0500

It's easier to just stand at attention for everyone, even HH06!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2015 1:18 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 13:18:13 -0400

I've seen a CPT stand at parade rest to a CSM once. It was deserved as the CPT told his troops to go past the clearing barrell and not clear their weapons. The CSM of the AO took notice, and you could imagine what happended thereafter.

Response by 1SG Jason Smith made Mar 19 at 2015 3:26 PM

1SG Jason Smith — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 15:26:11 -0400

When I was a SSG my new 2LT told me to go tell the 1SG that he wanted to talk to him. So like any good NCO i relayed the message to my 1SG. My 1SG told me to go tell that snot nosed kid that if he wanted to see him the LT needed to come see him, cause in Top's army a 2LT will never outrank a 1SG. All that being said a mutual respect needs to be shown no matter what rank or position you hold.

Response by MSG David Chappell made Apr 15 at 2015 2:46 PM

MSG David Chappell — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 14:46:18 -0400

No, while there is a defining line of experience and a gap between a CSM and LT one is still an officer (even the lowest Officer rank outranks the highest NCO rank). The professional NCO understands the split and accepts it. I had a COL I worked for for many years, he addressed me by first name and requested for many years I do the same. I simply could not.

Response by Cadet PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 4:45 PM

Cadet PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 16:45:33 -0400

Regulation states that a commision officer should always stand at attention to an NCO its like when you are walking with one you should always stand to the right of one. But we should always respect our NCOs and salute back crisply.

Response by SFC Walter Mack made Apr 15 at 2015 8:47 PM

SFC Walter Mack — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 20:47:58 -0400

Nope.

Response by SPC Todd Hanson made Apr 15 at 2015 10:11 PM

SPC Todd Hanson — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 22:11:26 -0400

I would say no. Sir what do you think about this... At Arcent soldier of the year presentation MG Kurt Stein said that if he was the Chief of staff he would make all officers be atleast enlisted for two years. and I completely agree with him.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2015 4:10 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 01 Jul 2015 16:10:11 -0400

I would and did as a LT and a Captain but remember that context is critical. I would do so when the CSM was addressing serious issues and problems with my men. The Sergeant Major is the right hand of the BC. You would be an idiot to be disrespectful and throw around your rank. It is also ridiculous. A CSM is a Seinior NCO with many many years of experience and knowledge that far exceeds anything that a new LT or Junior CPT has accomplished or understands. I hoped by showing proper respect and deference that my CSM would instruct my green ignorant butt and subsequently they usually would. Ignore a CSMs status and knowledge at your peril. The regulations do not require you to stand at ease but that is what makes extending this earned courtesy that much more meaningful. Young Officers be on notice that you can learn more easily from your NCOs that you can from your superior Officers who are often busy with other tasks where the NCOs are allowed to be ever present in the ranks with the soldiers. I found them to be my first line instructors showing me what it was to be an Officer and leader within the Company.

Response by SPC Larry Boutwell made Jul 1 at 2015 7:22 PM

SPC Larry Boutwell — Wed, 01 Jul 2015 19:22:13 -0400

Not according to rank structure...lt still an officer....csm still enlisted....

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2015 5:52 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 03 Jul 2015 17:52:29 -0400

NO.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Jul 3 at 2015 8:33 PM

SN Greg Wright — Fri, 03 Jul 2015 20:33:15 -0400

Every rank should (and does, in my experience -- I've never seen even flag officers dis an e-9) respect a 1SG, CSM, or Master Chief (Ya forgot one there, Captain :) ).

Having said that, by regulation, of course not an LT shouldn't. Having said THAT, I would not find one that chose to do so, remiss.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Jul 3 at 2015 8:54 PM

LTC Bink Romanick — Fri, 03 Jul 2015 20:54:11 -0400

Not in my Army......

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Jul 3 at 2015 9:13 PM

LTC Bink Romanick — Fri, 03 Jul 2015 21:13:37 -0400

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2015 9:52 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 03 Jul 2015 21:52:14 -0400

According to the military I joined, a 2LT/1LT still outranks a 1SG/SGM/CSM. If anything the opposite is true a Non-Commissioned Officer of any rank should stand at attention for an officer of any rank until told to stand at ease. That being said, any young officer worth his salt should show a great deal of respect to the SEAs for their experience and knowledge.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2015 10:30 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 03 Jul 2015 22:30:04 -0400

I still have a hard time not going to parade rest or at ease for CSMs. I even embarrassed myself as a 2lt when our CSM came in and I called "at ease!" purely as a reaction.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 4 at 2015 9:20 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 04 Jul 2015 09:20:50 -0400

Good question CPT Maurelli.
I don't believe there is a wrong answer. I have a lot of respect for the NCO Corps in general. Standing at ease for a 1SG or a CSM does not take anything away from an Officer. If anything, the Officer that demonstrate that type of respect for his 1SG and CSM will gain a lot. I still to these days stand at ease when I am addressing any CSM. There is just something about respecting and revering that rank and position.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2015 11:00 AM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 11:00:01 -0400

No, but they should know when to lend an ear and take advice.

Response by SSgt Charles Edwards made Jul 6 at 2015 11:33 PM

SSgt Charles Edwards — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 23:33:27 -0400

This man commanded the respect of his lieutenants.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 15 at 2015 1:24 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Jul 2015 13:24:15 -0400

If they know whats good for them, they will.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2015 11:29 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Jul 2015 11:29:33 -0400

No absolutely not. While a LT should never be put in a position where they have to give orders to a 1SG/CSM (Unless its a 1LT Commanding a Company), a complete breakdown of military bearing would occur throughout a unit if this was expected of the junior officers. I have seen 2LT's stand at parade rest for CSM out of respect and I can't say it wasn't warranted for that instance but it should not be something put into practice. CSM/1SG are leadership for the enlisted men, let the LTs stand at ease for the CPTs and up.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Aug 7 at 2015 8:00 AM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Fri, 07 Aug 2015 08:00:28 -0400

No. He should be respectful and listen the opinions of senior NCOs but standing at ease is not necessary

Response by 2ndLt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2015 8:04 AM

2ndLt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Aug 2015 08:04:04 -0400

As the son of SgtMaj and working very close to one right now, Ive learned to not stand at ease around them, or do anything else that a subordinate would do around a superior.

However, I do always call them by their rank, and make sure that I am not only respecting them but their time as well.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 4:39 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 16:39:06 -0400

The first (an only) time I met the MCPON, I didn't go to parade rest, but I definitely felt the gravity in the room increase by a few newtons.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Aug 19 at 2015 5:15 PM

CPT Ahmed Faried — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 17:15:02 -0400

no. But honeslty I used to do it and occasionally still find myself doing it. I lose nothing doing it.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 2:53 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 02:53:52 -0500

A LT 'should' ; does he have to? No, but remember CSM works under a LTC/COL so guess what ..

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 2:48 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 14:48:25 -0500

By regulation he doesn't have too. When I was PL and representing one of my men/women (often along with NCO) I would do it on formal occasions for the CSM.
You can never get in trouble for being too polite and a CSM certainly has earned my respect.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2016 11:33 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 23:33:01 -0500

Um....no. We have customs and courtesies for a reason; to show deference to rank and to carry on our traditions. A Lieutenant outranks a CSM. I once saw a CPT who got pissed at a CSM and was a bit unprofessional in his response to whatever the topic was (no, it wasn't me) and when the BN CDR found out he had a one way conversation with the CPT about how he saw the role of the CSM.
If the 1SG or CSM has been doing his job by setting the example for the LT and developing him as a leader there will be a level of mutual respect between not just with the CSM - LT relationship but between all of the Soldiers.
Senior NCOs can make the situation better by not just assuming the LT is not competent etc. Spend some time talking to them and developing them a leaders and there will be no issues with mutual respect. When going to training don't just focus on the NCOs; spend time with the PL and get him to use you as a sounding board. Once they realize that you will steer them in the right direction you have won their trust and confidence.
Young officers should understand that in most BN Command Teams the BN CDR and CSM sit down and "rack and stack" not only the Company Commanders, but the officer that the BN CDR senior rates. Make the CSM mad and the rating could suffer.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2016 5:17 PM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:17:23 -0500

No. Simply showing respect in your actions and in your words is enough. I would hope that the CSM would not allow it to happen as it is not in keeping with the standards and proper order of the military.

Response by SGM (R) Antonio Brown made Feb 12 at 2016 11:10 PM

SGM (R) Antonio Brown — Fri, 12 Feb 2016 23:10:36 -0500

I have had LTs and CPTs to stand at ease when talking to me. Not that they ordered to do so but I feel it is out of respect for me, my experience and mentorship.

Response by 1SG Larry Taggart made Feb 18 at 2016 3:20 PM

1SG Larry Taggart — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 15:20:30 -0500

NO.

Response by 1SG Brian Adams made Feb 19 at 2016 11:03 AM

1SG Brian Adams — Fri, 19 Feb 2016 11:03:14 -0500

Absolutely not! Naturally the Lt or 2nd Lt will be in an uncommanded posture when speaking with a senior NCO. But make no mistake, they are Commisioned officer's. I have different opinions about Chief Warrant Officer's ( of which I will not elaborate on at this time ).
I stayed NCO route, I did have opportunities to become an officer, my Father was an officer. While in uniform I always saluted a Lt and respected their rank.....

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2016 1:24 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Feb 2016 13:24:24 -0500

Where in the AR can I find this?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2016 1:54 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 13:54:32 -0500

Fort Benning as a 2LT in 2005. I was in the MP station around 0700 after PT, some SGM comes in and the PVT at the desk yells "at ease". I just keep going about my business and SGM starts to jump my shit. I just smiled and said, "Last time I checked, SGM, Officers do not stand at ease for NCOs". SGM chewed PVT Snuffy a new one for "at easing" the room when there was an officer present.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2016 10:26 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 10:26:27 -0500

No lie, as a CPT (Prior Enlisted) I stand at ease for a CSM....it's just that sense of respect I guess.

Response by 1SG Brian Adams made Jun 2 at 2016 2:41 PM

1SG Brian Adams — Thu, 02 Jun 2016 14:41:48 -0400

Yes, a modified version of "at ease". They do not have to, however, in my career, I have always noticed that the will stand at ease.

Response by CSM Jose Maldonado made Aug 3 at 2016 1:15 PM

CSM Jose Maldonado — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 13:15:03 -0400

No, us CSM know better than that. We have to show respect to get their respect.
CSM (Ret) Jose Maldonado

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2016 11:23 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 23:23:40 -0400

Yes, he's gotta give respect before he can earn respect.

Response by MAJ R. Andrew Hoskinson made Sep 27 at 2016 7:07 AM

MAJ R. Andrew Hoskinson — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 07:07:43 -0400

This is an absurd question. Why would you even ask this? By law, the greenest 2LT who just lowered his arm after his commissioning ceremony ranks the oldest crustiest sergeant major in the army. That's just the way it is.

Response by LTC Brian Croteau made Sep 27 at 2016 7:38 AM

LTC Brian Croteau — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 07:38:23 -0400

Every MSG/1SG and SGM/CSM I met when I was an LT gave me all the deference due my rank, whether in public or in private. Except...for those special moments when my youth and inexperience overwhelmed my training and I screwed something up. Then, and in private, it was explained to me precisely how it is that I was screwing up, threatening my own reputation, and what to do to fix the situation. That, ladies and gentleman, is superior NCO leadership.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2016 8:25 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 08:25:46 -0400

I have seen LTs and CPTs stand at parade rest for our battalion CSM. Asked a CPT one day why he was doing that and he reply was he deserves it because that is the best CSM he has ever had. And I would have to agree with him. Most of the time I'm not working in a battalion or brigade of my branch MLS. I have been in aviation, signal and MI and the current Command Sergeant Major has been the best one I have seen in my career. He doesn't care what your amylases he cares that you're a part of his team and a part of the United States military.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2016 8:37 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 08:37:49 -0400

NO! Officers DO NOT stand at ease for NCO's. Now, the LT should show the NCO some respect, but that has to go both ways. I have had CSM's that expected me to report to them and essentially to treat them as senior to me. That has been as a field grade officer. There is even one who expected me to do that as a COL. NFW...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2016 8:43 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 08:43:02 -0400

Sir,
As a sign of respect, yes a LT should stand, when a 1SG or CSM enters; especially for an E9. It is a sign of respect that is given to a "senior", be-it NCO or Officer. Out of 27 years of my military career, both active and National Guard, I have seen many O-1 thru O-3 stand when a CSM enters the room. Those officers are also the one's who will get the advice of the E-8/E-9 about situations that can be good for the Soldier(s) and for the morale of the unit.
Even today as a retired 31E, I still address officers and NCOs by their rank.
Again... a sign of respect.

Response by CPT Wallace Ward made Sep 27 at 2016 8:52 AM

CPT Wallace Ward — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 08:52:49 -0400

Seriously, this is a question??? What the hell?? You respect the rank yes also respect your rank as they should too to you LT. It's a two way road on this

Response by SFC David Pope, MBA made Sep 27 at 2016 9:08 AM

SFC David Pope, MBA — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 09:08:43 -0400

Simple answer, no.

Response by SFC David Pope, MBA made Sep 27 at 2016 9:16 AM

SFC David Pope, MBA — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 09:16:42 -0400

Response by SPC Greg K. made Sep 27 at 2016 9:21 AM

SPC Greg K. — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 09:21:24 -0400

Once upon a time at Ft Drum (A-Co 2-14) there was a young butter bar that got assigned to us. He was fresh out of West Point and still not real sure what was what....I had a profile at the time and was working as the company clerk...one day, the CSM came down from Btn, I'm not sure who he was looking for but e ended up talking to the new Lt in the CP. I remember hearing something along the lines of, "When addressing a United States Army Office you better stand accordingly!" Then I heard a lot of "Yes Sir!...Blah Blah Blah...Yes Sir! Blah Blah Blah...Yes Sir!!!!" and the Command Sergeant Major left....About 15 minutes later I heard a LOUD "AAAATENNNNTION!!!!" as the Btn Commander entered the company area and rounded the corner. As I stood there at attention with FULL BUTT PUCKER, the Colonel made a sharp left into that new LT's office. The door shut abruptly... I heard some loud noises and some muffled grunts and groans. Then I heard what sounded like furniture being moved around. I though "WOW what an awesome Commander", He came alllll the way down from Btn to our company to help this new LT rearrange furniture in his office. It must have been some heavy stuff too because when the Colonel left he was covered in sweat!!!!! So Captain Maurelli....No, a Lt does not stand at ease for a CSM, just the opposite, HOWEVER, be ready for some rearranging.... if you know what I mean....LOL!!!!!! Climb to glory!!! Right of the Line!!!

Response by SFC David Pope, MBA made Sep 27 at 2016 9:25 AM

SFC David Pope, MBA — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 09:25:26 -0400

Long answer. I have seen my share of young LT's take on an old bull, and walk away with a horn or two in the posterior. It used to be that the officers were the educated and the enlisted were the cheap labor. Now days most of your Senior NCO'S have as much education or more than the LT's. My commanding general told our junior officers that they need to listen to the senior enlisted, because we are the experts in our field, and if a young LT decided to push his rank, he had better be right. Needless to say, many LT's found the great career abyss somewhere in officer Hell. That general also held our senior NCO'S to the highest standard, and LT'S mostly asked questions and observed. 3 of those LT'S are Colonals now and friends of mine. Still no.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2016 10:07 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 10:07:41 -0400

No, officers out rank all NCOs but, respect should be given.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2016 10:12 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 10:12:23 -0400

No. The 1SG or CSM should stand at attention when talking to the LT. That is the standard.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2016 10:45 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 10:45:08 -0400

If the LT does not know that, he should.

Response by SPC Greg K. made Sep 27 at 2016 10:49 AM

SPC Greg K. — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 10:49:50 -0400

I think Lt's stand at ease for a CSM in the Air Force....For example, in the Army, as an enlisted, I'd refer to you as Captain or Sir. However, in the Air Force I'd refer to you as Brian or Maurelli...Please, don't get me wrong, I think the Air force is a great alternative to the Military...LOL....JUST MESSING AROUND!!!!

Response by LTC Roderic Hewlett made Sep 27 at 2016 11:17 AM

LTC Roderic Hewlett — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 11:17:17 -0400

I was enlisted (NCO) before becoming an officer. The bottom line - there is tremendous wisdom in all ranks and when I grew most is when I listened to the good advice and developed the professional ability to judge and decide (maturity). My most influential military leaders - a few of my 1SGs and CSMs, drill sergeants, and a few excellent officers and warrants I served with. CSM, 1SG, CWs, and COL/LTCs have seen a great deal and one should cultivate mentors - but the rank structure is in place for a reason and appropriate courtesies should always be shown. Senior NCOs, officers, and warrants would expect and enforce no less.

Response by SGT Alan Dike made Sep 27 at 2016 11:21 AM

SGT Alan Dike — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 11:21:59 -0400

There is no documentation stating so. They can if they want, but they're not in the wrong for not doing so. Same should be asked.. Should a CSM or 1SGT stand at attention for the 1LT? If following courtesy and customs, the answer is a definite yes. Should the LT show deference to the Senior NCO out of respect for their experience, knowledge? Yes. Are they required to? No... but that will come back to bite them in the ass usually...

Response by SSG Bob Bravo made Sep 27 at 2016 11:33 AM

SSG Bob Bravo — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 11:33:05 -0400

I think they should at least for a CSM. I know my bats. CSM required it and butter didn't ask any questions they just did it!

Response by LTC George Morgan made Sep 27 at 2016 11:45 AM

LTC George Morgan — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 11:45:57 -0400

I think this depends on the circumstance. In semi-casual situations I think it is appropriate for a LT to Stand at Ease purely out of respect, likewise the E9 should at least stand to show respect for the commission. However, if the LT is in a "Presentation of Commands" mode, the converse may be considered appropriate and the E9 should be At Ease.
With all this said, any LT who believes he is superior to an E9 and does not demonstrate a respect for that soldiers time and experience should not be surprised to find him/herself in for a rough tour.
Life for a Commission, in my opinion, does not really get underway until you make Captain.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2016 11:46 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 11:46:21 -0400

It's not required. However, senior NCOs deserve the utmost respect, considering what it took to get to that rank/position. A good NCO, junior or senior, can make or break an officer's career, depending on the caliber/character of that officer. I've seen ignorant LTs fall on their swords when they try to pull rank on an NCO, especially a senior one. I myself will instead seek out those NCOs for advice and guidance. I'm prior enlisted, so I think that gives me better perspective on how to treat NCOs.

Remember that we're a volunteer Army, so each Soldier, regardless of rank, who chooses to enlist should be treated with the same respect you'd want for yourself. As the late GEN H. Norman Schwarzkopf said at his farewell address at West Point, "Every Soldier wants to do well."

Response by BG Richard M. Tabor made Sep 27 at 2016 4:31 PM

BG Richard M. Tabor — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 16:31:58 -0400

The simple answer is no.

Response by MAJ David Parr made Sep 27 at 2016 6:07 PM

MAJ David Parr — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 18:07:59 -0400

The LT out-ranks them, and they should stand at attention until told to stand at ease by the LT (or other commissioned officer)...

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Sep 27 at 2016 7:49 PM

1SG Patrick Sims — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 19:49:12 -0400

As a retired 1st Sergeant--- I would never expect a Lieutenant to stand at ease when he is addressing me-----Genuflecting would be quite sufficient---providing it didn't make his pants baggy

Response by 1LT Rich Voss made Sep 27 at 2016 8:11 PM

1LT Rich Voss — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 20:11:44 -0400

CPT - I see that's posted in the "humor" section, along with 1SG, CSM, and LT. Thanks for the "hearty" laugh ! What you did NOT say, but what seems to be implied (to me), is that the "Top" or CSM gave that LT the order to "stand at ease". Am I correct, or not ? That particular situation never occurred during my service, but had it, I would have looked him (or her) right in the eye and said: "Excuse me Sergeant ?" Thereby giving them the opportunity to think about how they had erred. However, my first "Top" after graduating OCS and being assigned to a unit in Germany during Viet Nam/Cold War, walked in to our platoon officers "office", placed his hands on his hips and stated: "Don't you wet-behind-the-ears butterbars expect me to salute you !" "If you have a problem with that, we can meet behind the barracks and handle it off the record, like men." "If you win, I'll salute you". I'm from the South Side of Chicago...he saluted. LOL ! We never, ever spoke about it again, but I also never heard him make that "suggestion" to any other new butterbar in our unit. Senior NCOs during that period all deserved respect, because most, if not all, had already been in combat. AND had tons of experience, so I learned much from my "Platoon Daddy". Hated when he got severely wounded in 'Nam, but he's still alive, thank God ! Respect goes both ways.

Response by SPC John Weathers made Sep 27 at 2016 10:27 PM

SPC John Weathers — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 22:27:25 -0400

I don't think he should stand at ease but I do think that the 1SG or CSM has earned some respect even from officers. I was only a lowly EM highest rank Spec 4 and i always showed respect for for all E6 and above mainly because they earned it. We had some fresh out of the fridge butter bars who also got my respect not because they earned it yet, but because they were officers. You have to respect the pecking order.

Response by CW4 Kenneth Berninger made Sep 28 at 2016 5:13 AM

CW4 Kenneth Berninger — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 05:13:56 -0400

I do not understand why this is being discussed.............Military regulatuions stand.

Response by COL Michael Freville made Sep 28 at 2016 7:56 AM

COL Michael Freville — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 07:56:31 -0400

No. But they should stand in awe and respect.

Response by LTC Augustus Dawson made Sep 28 at 2016 7:57 AM

LTC Augustus Dawson — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 07:57:50 -0400

Response by 1SG Billye Jackson made Sep 28 at 2016 10:36 AM

1SG Billye Jackson — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 10:36:57 -0400

Not No but Hell no. That being said I never stood at Ease for them either unless the situation called for it, ie they Locked my Heels ( and Trust me it would come back to Bite them in the Ass. LOL). But my Question is why this Question would even be Asked. We have Customs and Traditions that have worked for over 240 years why are we trying to Change it. I never, but for one occasion and he came to Regret that, had any Officer ever show me anything but Respect, and it was always a Two way Street.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 28 at 2016 4:44 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 16:44:46 -0400

I do, especially when they are mine, and when I was a PL. Joes see a lot, and I want them to see me practicing what I preach. I expect the same from everyone else, so why wouldn't I practice it myself?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2016 10:55 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 29 Sep 2016 10:55:27 -0400

No.

Response by SGT Phillip Tucker made Sep 29 at 2016 11:40 PM

SGT Phillip Tucker — Thu, 29 Sep 2016 23:40:53 -0400

Any butter bar, expessially a cadet, should have to stand at ease for senior enlisted until they make Captain. Cadets making officer should be stopped, or at least the cadet should be made to go through BCT. If not, and you put a cadet with no or hardly any time in for senior enlisted to square him/her away and drop them in a hot LZ, they will get themselves and their platoon wasted. In my opinion, only NCOs should be able to transition to Officers.

Response by MAJ Jimmy Jackson made Oct 13 at 2016 3:19 PM

MAJ Jimmy Jackson — Thu, 13 Oct 2016 15:19:50 -0400

A question like this just shows how far we have devoted as an army!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2018 5:31 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Aug 2018 17:31:49 -0400

No. However, one of the platoon leaders kept standing at parade rest every time he spoke to me when I became a 1SG. After several days of this, as he was walking away, I asked the commander if he was going to "fix that." He quickly replied, "No 1SG, I'm going to let him figure that out." It went on for another week or so. I suspect his PSG educated him because I would see him shake his head every time the PL did it.

Response by 1st Lt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2019 8:44 PM

1st Lt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Mar 2019 20:44:10 -0400

Absolutely not.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2019 8:10 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Jun 2019 20:10:44 -0400

Naahh, however, he/she should be willing to learn!!

Response by MSG Victor Milasus made Apr 9 at 2022 9:52 PM

MSG Victor Milasus — Sat, 09 Apr 2022 21:52:28 -0400

No but should show respect to a senior NCO.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2023 4:12 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 May 2023 16:12:44 -0400

Absolutely YES! And this is why:

1SGs and CSMs have no command authority. Only commissioned officers do. BUT 1SGs and CSMs are buddies with people who do.
They play golf together, hobnob with other high-echelon big toes at fabulous parties, and give the commander what he or she desperately needs: obsequious, boot-licking compliments necessary to maintain the commander's ego, motivated to do so to get that awesome assignment in Hawaii, to forget that "one time" with a PFC, and to keep their designated parking spaces at the PX.

In short: they will tell on you, like a hall monitor at school. So don't run down the hall, you miserable LTs. Busting your butt to earn your commission has meant nothing. The 1SG/SGM will take your name down and tell on you.

But, you know, who cares. It's just military discipline flipped upside down.

Response by CSM Rick Calvert made Aug 20 at 2023 8:38 AM

CSM Rick Calvert — Sun, 20 Aug 2023 08:38:16 -0400

No. A LT out ranks a CSM. But if the LT is smart he or she will listen very closely to what the CSM has to say.