Sevice Members with college degrees?

SSG Zachery Mitchell — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 19:25:25 -0500

If you are a junior service member or NCO with a college degree, do you feel that you should be paid more than a service member that does not have a degree? If so, should you get paid more for a bachelors than if you have an associates? Should you not get paid for an associates at all? What's everyone's thoughts?

Response by CSM Mike Maynard made Nov 6 at 2013 6:39 AM

CSM Mike Maynard — Wed, 06 Nov 2013 06:39:48 -0500

<div>They don't pay officers differently based on Bachelors, Masters, etc.</div><div><br></div><div>Soldiers receive Tuition Assistance to go to college - they are already getting paid to attend college.</div><div><br></div><div>Additionally, they receive promotion points for college education which gets them promoted faster which equals getting paid for attending college.</div><div><br></div><div>Seems like there are plenty of incentives and good reasons (better communication skills, better management/leadership skills, etc) to attend college.</div><div><br></div>

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Nov 6 at 2013 7:29 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Wed, 06 Nov 2013 07:29:53 -0500

Agreed completely with CSM Maynard. His points are almost verbatim what I wanted to respond with.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2013 7:36 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Nov 2013 07:36:56 -0500

I agree with CSM Maynard.  The college education was for me.  I didn't do it for more pay, I did it to better myself and stand out among my peer group.  It doesn't change the work I do as an enlisted member, therefore there's no reason I should be paid more for doing the same work. 

Response by SSG Zachery Mitchell made Nov 6 at 2013 2:02 PM

SSG Zachery Mitchell — Wed, 06 Nov 2013 14:02:53 -0500

I agree whole heartedly CSM Maynard. I just finished my last class for my associates degree and start classes for my bachelors in January. I didn't get the degree for anyone but myself. I hear a lot of soldiers complain that they think they should get paid more to have a degree and I always tell them the same thing. "The Army has enough incentives for education as it is. The schooling is free and it helps tremendously with promotions which leads to more money. If you want to earn more money then earn a degree and get promoted." It amazes me how many soldiers, junior and senior, don't take advantage of the free education they're eligible for.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2013 2:05 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Nov 2013 14:05:37 -0500

In my humble opinion, a college degree is nothing more than a piece of paper that shows how well educated you are. What matters most is who you meet while attending class and how you can leverage those contacts in the real world.

I feel like a better question would be if well educated enlisted officers should have a chance to apply for the same positions as commissioned officers and gain a direct commission through on the job training and mentorship as oppossed to having to start over from scratch through OTS.

Response by SSG Lisa Rendina made Nov 9 at 2013 1:23 AM

SSG Lisa Rendina — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 01:23:29 -0500

I agree that having a degree makes you no better a leader or a Soldier than someone who does not have a degree. But, let's not kid ourselves in terms of opening doors for promotion. It's been a while since I needed to look at points, but when I was going through points-based promotions my Bachelors earned me the same number of promotion points as any other Soldier with 60 random credit hours. I subsequently went on and completed my Masters while in service. Did that advanced degree earn me a promotion, no. Did it earn me a pay raise, no. I needed to be promoted before another pay raise and my particular MOS provides very few sequence numbers and eventual pins. I didn't pursue my Masters for the Army, I stuck with it through PCS moves and deployment for myself, but I am not convinced the Army truly values continued education.

Response by SFC Charles S. made Nov 9 at 2013 2:49 AM

SFC Charles S. — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 02:49:01 -0500

College Degrees should be for the educational value of the degree. If a soldier wants more money for having a degree while they are in, then they should look into OCS or WOC. Having a degree on the enlisted side does give you promotion points up to the E-6 level, beyond that there is not much promotion value other than how it looks on your NCOERs.

I took college classes the entire time I was in, I had over 240 units, that did not come together to make a single degree. My last 3 years, I enrolled in a degree program and in 22 months received 3 degrees, 2 associates and a BS. When it was all said and done. The 240 units got what I wanted promotion points and NCOER bullet comments. The degrees got me a job with excellent pay after I retired.

Decide on what you want with your life. If you want pay now get a degree and go to OCS. If you can wait get the education and make your career better with the knowledge you can use it and enhance your life after you retire.

Response by SGT Chris Birkinbine made Nov 9 at 2013 7:03 AM

SGT Chris Birkinbine — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 07:03:31 -0500

If you think about it, having a degree already contributes to your paygrade indirectly. If you start off with a 4 year degree, you can come in as an E-4. If you are already in any credits you take, and earning a degree jump your promotion points, making it increasingly likely that you will be promoted.

Even in the civilian world, degrees can be comparable to years of experience. So if you are asking if a new enlisted member who comes in with a B.S. should earn more than the E-4 with several years experience, than my answer is no.

Should a newly promoted E-5 make more money because he has a B.S. than an E-5 who got his promotion points through awards, and doing well in PT, and on the board? Again I say no. I feel they already contribute significantly enough to promotions. Especially when you consider the overall low quality of education offered though the community colleges generally stationed in, around , or online that most enlisted members take courses from.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Nov 9 at 2013 9:56 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 09:56:00 -0500

I do not think I should get paid for having a degree. I don't thinl Commissioned Officers (CO) get paid to have a degree either however, having a degree is a requirement for being a CO. I have a BS and a MS in Criminal Justice and I will get enough pay when it helps me make SFC or higher if I dare stay in that long.

Response by SFC Craig Dalen made Feb 20 at 2014 11:21 AM

SFC Craig Dalen — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 11:21:54 -0500

If it is the pay that you are worried about then go to OCS. You acheived that degree for you. I am also sure that you used the G.I. Bill or tuition assistance to get it. If the Army paid for your college that should be sufficient enough.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2014 9:59 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 09:59:22 -0500

No.  A college degree helps you get promoted.  That's your higher pay.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2014 10:14 AM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 10:14:38 -0500

Getting a degree should not be viewed as a way to get paid while in the service. We as officers do not receive additional pay when we get advanced degrees. You should however view it as an opportunity to advance your knowledge. As I am in the process of transistioning from the military to cilivilian job market I can say that you will have a very difficult time finding a job without at least a bachelors degree. You should strive while you are in to accomplish the highest level of education you can. Tuition Assistance is a great yet underutilized program. Enlisted and NCO costs you nothing to use. WO and RLO owe 2 years per class. I used it for my bachelors degree and then used my GI Bill for my Masters and Ed.D. Don't view degrees as "bonus" pays, view them as a way for you to advance quicker than your peers hence being promoted quicker, which in turn = more pay.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2014 10:15 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 10:15:50 -0500

CSM Maynard summed it up very well. One additional note, new enlistees with at least 48 credit hours DO get paid more since they start as a PFC.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2014 10:35 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 10:35:11 -0500

They pay you more when you're selected for promotion based on the increased promotion points you received based on your degree. Considering the number (neither large nor small) of "bought" degrees (transforming your military experience into college credits directly) and/or crap degrees (why should the military care if you have a degree in literary arts); I don't see this happening soley on degree.

Response by 1SG Alan Bailey made Feb 21 at 2014 10:40 AM

1SG Alan Bailey — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 10:40:51 -0500

If Soldiers want to be paid more for having degrees, maybe they should look at "Green to Gold" or ETS and finsh college and come back in commissioned. I fully support college and have always encouraged Soldiers to take advantage of T/A. But I also know alot of Soldiers with degrees that cannot lead a Soldier and spend more time focusing on thier college classes than do taking care of thier Soldiers.

Response by SSG Jeuan Mitchell MBA, MSM-ISS, MS made Aug 31 at 2014 10:22 PM

SSG Jeuan Mitchell MBA, MSM-ISS, MS — Sun, 31 Aug 2014 22:22:52 -0400

In my mind...just my thoughts... If medical personnel get paid bonuses for their specialty why shouldn't say an IT person with a Master's degree in Information Systems Security not get paid more? Officers come into the Army with the same Degrees as some E-4's but make A lot more money. Why shouldn't having a degree earn you more money? This is still America.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2014 3:03 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Nov 2014 15:03:52 -0500

If any soldier earns a degree they do get paid more as it leads to promotion and potentially positions of greater responsibility and opportunity. That's how the system works and it works very well

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made Nov 13 at 2014 12:56 PM

SGT Kristin Wiley — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:56:27 -0500

No, but I do think the military needs to provide more opportunities for moving up in the ranks if we have education. A great soldier with a Bachelor's degree and excellent performance is not going to stay in the military without proper incentive. The military currently doesn't provide the incentive, which has led to an epidemic of bad leaders staying in, and good troops getting out.

Response by Sgt Joshua Anderson made Feb 18 at 2015 7:04 PM

Sgt Joshua Anderson — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 19:04:00 -0500

I'll echo the thoughts and responses of some here. If you want to get paid more for having a piece of paper, go be an officer. All a degree is to me is something that qualifies you to speak at length about a certain subject.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2015 7:29 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 19:29:27 -0500

SSG Zachery Mitchell, just my thoughts... being a former SSG, I would say no. The reason is because college provides opportunities for senior NCOs, warrants, and Officers. Technically, it helps at all levels (it maxed my points for SGT and SSG - being promoted with 782 points).

Earning a degree not only provides opportunities, but technically it increases one's personal knowledge, which should improve performance (technically). A result of earning a degree allowed me to go OCS and having it in the IT realm, allowed me to become an FA53. I already have my MBA/PM and half way done with my Doctorate in Business Administration. Continuous education can open up doors in both your personal and professional life. The fact the military paid mine 100% (did all with TA) and using my GI Bill for the current degree has been great to me. Being in the FA53 allowed me to also earn numerous certifications that would have cost me a lot personally, but I knew that as a PFC being 18 years old; I knew that having a proper education is vital for today's economy. This is a good question to ask because there are police departments that provide extra pay their personnel for a certain amount of education.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2015 8:39 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:39:01 -0500

I think what needs to happen is commissioning preference to enlisted personnel in the same field. For instance an E5 intel sm should get hiring preference for a commission over a guy with a slightly higher GPA off the street.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2015 8:39 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:39:30 -0500

Sorry, but no way. It is the quality of worker, not the degree behind him that counts. Now, how I believe that this in essence will come true though is your ability to leverage what you learned while getting the degree CAN matter. If you work hard, and apply your degree then you should have a greater chance at promotion. That's where you get paid more.

Remember, the degree does not make the man (or woman). But the degree can HELP make that man a bit better.

Besides, using TA to go to school is like getting paid more.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2015 10:16 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 22:16:39 -0500

I enlisted with a Master's degree. I did get paid more, as having that many credits allowed me to come in as an E-3 and not an E-1. I wasn't any better than any other E-3 though, and paying your dues is part of the process.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 22 at 2015 11:14 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 Feb 2015 11:14:04 -0500

Although it would be nice since I have a bachelor degree I do not feel it is warranted. Not many enlisted member's have degrees. (I'd love to see hard stats on that). So those members that have degrees will have the upper hand by being promoted on with the "Total Soldier" concept.