Secession? What are your thoughts?

2014-09-19T10:11:02-04:00

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/19/us-usa-secession-exclusive-idUSKBN0HE19U20140919

Exclusive: Angry with Washington, 1 in 4 Americans open to secession

The failed Scottish vote to pull out from the United Kingdom stirred secessionist hopes for some in the United States, where almost a quarter of people are open to their states leaving the union, a new Reuters/Ipsos poll found.

Response by CPO Jon Campbell made Sep 19 at 2014 10:11 AM

2014-09-19T10:11:38-04:00

Smart move for Scotland. All the sentiment in the world will not pay the bills. Scots know this deep down.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2014 10:11 AM

2014-09-19T10:11:46-04:00

I don't like it! Unfortunately we live in a society today that when things get tough, we just bail out.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2014 10:16 AM

2014-09-19T10:16:19-04:00

I am not surprised. As our government & leaders stray further and further from the Constitutional principles, we should expect more. Those who benefit from deviating from our Constitution will continue to support this departure.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Sep 19 at 2014 10:18 AM

2014-09-19T10:18:00-04:00

We are better together. That is all.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Sep 19 at 2014 11:08 AM

2014-09-19T11:08:20-04:00

Do what's en vogue in Europe, go found your own country, only do it somewhere else. PLENTY of cheap real estate in Antarctica.

Response by SSG Pete Fleming made Sep 19 at 2014 11:30 AM

2014-09-19T11:30:48-04:00

This is a common debate, especially now. But, people have always talked about secession, after The Constitution was ratified to the Civil War to the race riots of the 60's to GWB getting elected and now with our current situation...

This is and will always be a topic. A political tool.

There is an important thing to consider. If, if a state were to separate. Temporarily ignore the overwhelming political ramifications (or try to). The individual States already have a government in place, a Constitution, public works, borders are already clearly established (in most cases)... All the key pieces are in place. Now I understand the bigger picture primarily financial and such. Then we go into commerce, trade, treaties, NATO, UN... all those things.

But our States already have a foundation from which to expand on.

There are/were many places that chose to break away with no such footing. When The United States broke, we started from zero. But it was a different world then. Not so interconnected as it is now. With no 'international organizations' or other groups so actively involved... Nations have always dabbled in the affairs of others but not as it is now. I am not speaking about 'Spy vs Spy' stuff, but the UN and OSCE and Amnesty International and... and...

If Scotland broke away there were a lot of things to consider. Just as if a State separated. But they have a foundation from which to build upon.

To express the difference, a small example is Northern California wanting to create a new State... They need to start from the very beginning. From establishing a Constitution to defining borders... so much more. But, at least they are part of bigger nation without the added concerns of recreating national treaties, creating new currency, and such...

We have as another example, the nations that broke away from Colonial rule in the 60's 70's and into the 80's... they had to rebuild and redefine themselves, from almost zero. Most still have not bounced back, Haiti as an obvious example.

A more obvious example is Kosovo. When they broke, they started from nothing and 'created' a 'new' Albanian nation carved out of Serbia. They did it without the full support and blessing of the world community. But the had the biggest backer on the planet at that time, NATO, the US, and a paranoid UN (they were afraid the whole Balkans would reignite and thus trigger a bigger conflict or it was to steer attention away from Clinton and his famous BJ)...

None-the-less they had to start from nothing, not much has changed. They still don't have clearly defined borders, no currency (they first used the DM now they use the Euro). Their infrastructure sux. They don't have the necessary support to be recognized as a sovereign nation (still haven't received enough votes in the UN). Basically if it wasn't for the support from other areas (USA) they would have never been able to succeed.

Whereas, if one of our states were to break... well perhaps they might have a chance... they are already ahead of most places that broke from their 'mother' country.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Sep 19 at 2014 1:06 PM

2014-09-19T13:06:35-04:00

Succession is not the answer. Holding politicians in office accountable is the answer.

Response by Cpl Dennis F. made Sep 19 at 2014 1:55 PM

2014-09-19T13:55:55-04:00

I think that there are quite a few that WISH The Peoples Democratic Republic of California WOULD secede. ;)

Response by Capt Chris McVeigh made Sep 19 at 2014 3:46 PM

2014-09-19T15:46:01-04:00

I'm just going to post this link....you can pretty much get 1 in 4 Americans to believe anything. 26% percent thought the sun goes around the earth, slightly edging out the 16% who didn't think the center of the earth was hot...and many more depressing facts about what a portion of America believes.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/02/14/277058739/1-in-4-americans-think-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth-survey-says

1 In 4 Americans Thinks The Sun Goes Around The Earth, Survey Says

Twenty-six percent in a survey of 2,200 people conducted in 2012 answered that the Sun revolves around the Earth, and fewer than half correctly answered a question about human origins.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2014 4:27 PM

2014-09-19T16:27:07-04:00

Sir,
I don't know why anyone would want to secede from the greatest nation on earth.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2014 9:01 PM

2014-09-19T21:01:28-04:00

Free People voted for Secession here once. An army was raised and millions were killed.

Right or wrong Secession should be legal. I can't find a law that it violates.

Response by CPT Kit Lancaster made Sep 19 at 2014 9:39 PM

2014-09-19T21:39:35-04:00

Lmao, no way that is a solid statistic. Succeeding from the US would be an economic disaster for any state.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2014 12:06 AM

2014-09-20T00:06:34-04:00

I suppose if it were to happen I would say that the States would pay back every dime that was given to them from the federal government.

I think this would cause havoc. It may seem mundane, but I think it could have drastic effects on interstate commerce. What would stop a state from imposing an unreasonable levy in order to transit through it. Imagine if Texas through North Dakota all were separate states and each decided to impose a 25% levy of the net value of goods coming across it. We would see ground commerce come to a halt. Those states would lose in the end because the companies inside them would pull out. Jobs would rapidly disappear in those states. Those states who would require other resources would be brought to their knees, they would probably be crying to come back in.

Response by Cpl Chris Rice made Sep 20 at 2014 4:26 AM

2014-09-20T04:26:15-04:00

California, and New York are some of the few states that could survive as independent nations, I have no idea why people continue to think it would be good for the United States for us to lose one state that is the economic center of the world, and another state which would be the 4th largest economy in the world without the rest of the United States. It would actually be a hit to the Federal Income, and would drive up our deficits, as both New York and California provide more Federal Income than they take, as opposed to the Georgia, and Louisiana (Not an inclusive list).

If you as a state attempt to secede there will be war. I cannot help but use this quote, it may not be perfect but;

"You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out. I know I had no hand in making this war, and I know I will make more sacrifices to-day than any of you to secure peace. But you cannot have peace and a division of our country. If the United States submits to a division now, it will not stop, but will go on until we reap the fate of Mexico, which is eternal war. The United States does and must assert its authority, wherever it once had power; for, if it relaxes one bit to pressure, it is gone, and I believe that such is the national feeling. This feeling assumes various shapes, but always comes back to that of Union. Once admit the Union, once more acknowledge the authority of the national Government, and, instead of devoting your houses and streets and roads to the dread uses of war, I and this army become at once your protectors and supporters, shielding you from danger, let it come from what quarter it may. I know that a few individuals cannot resist a torrent of error and passion, such as swept the South into rebellion, but you can point out, so that we may know those who desire a government, and those who insist on war and its desolation."

General William T. Sherman

I also like the ideas of Samuel Adams (Not an error) who stated that to rebel and separate from a monarchy which provided you no voice was acceptable, but to revolt and leave a republic should only meet death.

We are country founded on revolt, but should be sustained through reform. The will of the people can be accomplished without bloodshed. Though peace cannot exist for a fractured Union, and it should be preserved even at great cost.

Response by SPC Richard White made Sep 20 at 2014 6:56 PM

2014-09-20T18:56:03-04:00

Secession should be legal,However here in the USA I believe the only state that can do it legally is The Republic of Texas

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2014 7:36 PM

2014-09-20T19:36:34-04:00

It's my personal belief that it would be disastrous for their economy. I think they rest warmly inside of the UK's bosom at present and many don't quite realize it.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2014 10:41 PM

2014-09-20T22:41:21-04:00

"One (ONE) Texan respondent said he was confident his state could get by without the rest of the country." LOL. Sounds like the writer of the article knew better than to kick a beehive.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2014 11:24 PM

2014-09-20T23:24:32-04:00

You are free, but you are not free to leave.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2014 11:27 PM

2014-09-20T23:27:17-04:00

25% of Americans,at least, are always going to be upset with political decisions. Unfortunately, this sounds like an Onion article. News must have been slow for Reuters, or they just hazed a FNG.
Either way, "An Insignificant Amount of Americans Hate the Federal Government's Bulls**t" isn't PC enough.
And "75% of the American Public (Asked In This Survey) Consider Themselves 'Citizens of the United States'" is not sensational enough.
There are very few states that could viably secede. Would they under the current Administration? The next? I am 99% sure that, no. Isn't going to happen.
Would YOU "defect" to a seceded state?

Response by CWO4 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2014 3:26 AM

2014-09-21T03:26:39-04:00

I can't think of anything less patriotic than an American not wanting to be American.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2014 4:08 PM

2014-09-22T16:08:21-04:00

Wow! I am surprised no one has said this yet. So here I go.

It is all nice and fine to chat about the idea of breaking of the Union. It sounds cool, in the same way 16 year old sounds cool when he's screaming at his parents that he will run away. I cannot explain how childish this sounds. You don't agree with something and keep ratcheting up the emotional content of the argument instead of trying to solve it. Pretty useful if you want to polarize a voting base down right stupid if you want to actually solve problems.

Don't like huge debt, raise taxes reduce expenditures, it will be a little painful but the guidelines are there in a dozen different forms.

Don't like the ACA? Find a middle ground, talk intelligently and not in bullet points, acknowledging that the other side are not, in fact Nazis

Feel the NSA has over reached? Call your congressman, join the ACLU (Works for gun rights also)

STOP BEING SO DAMN WILLING TO ASSUME THE WORST ABOUT PEOPLE YOU DON"T AGREE WITH! and along the way turn off any media source who does that.

Yep moderation, we don't get everything we want we have to come to a middle ground.

Because the lesson of 1860 is clear to me. You are not going to succeed. The Union will not let you go, and we are members of the armed forces, how much blood are you willing to spill how many towns burned and buildings leveled? If you are on this site it is likely that you have seen what happens when modern armies fight insurgents in populated areas. What happens when both sides have those tools?

Even with some of the recent moves there is a process to change the course of the country, it is deliberately slow (Ever heard the term 'The Ship of State'?) but effective exactly because it is slow and deliberate.

But if a state wants to part company, be assured that I am personally willing to prevent that from happening. Not getting into the if they would succeed. The argument is pointless, the cost would be too high.

Now I am going back to being a good citizen staying informed on the world around me.