Retirement or try for CSM?

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 01:21:27 -0500

I just went over 20 years this weekend and I am not 100% sure if it is worth trying to make CSM (E9).

I have a good job offer set in place for next year making a little more than I make now. What advice can Rally Point members give?

Respectively,
1SG Haro

Response by 1SG DeyShuan Shepherd made Jan 14 at 2015 5:09 AM

1SG DeyShuan Shepherd — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 05:09:44 -0500

Just like with anything that we have faced in our careers battle it is time to weigh the pros and cons and develop a course of action. What are your reasons for staying in the military and attempting to get promoted? What would be your reasons to retire and move on to civilian life? Are you still physically capable to perform all duties required? There are many more questions like these that only you can answer for yourself. I suggest that you do what is best for you, your family, and the Army. The best part is that you have control over the situation.

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made Jan 14 at 2015 7:09 AM

MSG Wade Huffman — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 07:09:56 -0500

1SG Private RallyPoint Member , I completely understand how you feel.. I was in the same situation myself.
We all end up going at some point, and the decision as to when is a very personal one. Best advise I can give is to go with your instincts. If you have a firm job offer already lined up you will be beginning your transition well ahead of most. Should you stay and make SGM/CSM, it would be a sizable hike in your pay (and retirement) but would also put you several years behind in your next career (assuming your next job is a career and not just a job).
Bottom line... when do YOU want to begin the next chapter of your life?

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 7:42 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 07:42:35 -0500

WHat you need to consider is what are you willing to commit too. If you decide to stay in and you do make the SGM list you are committing to anywhere from 5-6 years of additional time. If you already have a good thing on the outside lined up making more than what you make now plus retirement, I'd probably move on. However, the additional retirement for the rank of SGM/CSM is at least 500 monthly since the pay raise is about 1000. A good friend once told me that after 20 you are working for half as the Army already owes you half. Essentially a 50 percent pay cut. Not an easy choice, good luck.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 7:56 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 07:56:49 -0500

All five of these gentlemen have all provided great insight. You have been enlisted longer than I was, but I have to admit, when I realized that the Soldiers that I was promoted to E8 with are now preparing to be boarded for Sergeant Major, it really hit home that I had walked away from that opportunity. In your case, you have the probable opportunity to become a Sergeant Major, but you also have a guaranteed opportunity to take the job offer and start a new career.

Sounds to me like you should let it ride on our Hawks! If the Seahawks win the Super Bowl, you stick around for the SGM Board. If anyone else wins, you retire and start a new career.

What do you think?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 8:02 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 08:02:20 -0500

I have always pursued my Army career with the mindset to do everything in my power to advance to the next job/assignment/rank so that it is my decision when to leave, not the Army's because I did not accomplish something which prevented me from progressing.
I will not decide on whether I make Colonel, however I have tried to do everything possible as a Lieutenant Colonel to meet the requirements the Army says I need to be considered for promotion (of course my performance in these requirements is important).
If I am not selected for promotion, I still want the decision to leave the Army to be mine, not the Army's because of my poor job performance or selection of future assignments.

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made Jan 14 at 2015 8:10 AM

SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 08:10:19 -0500

1SG Private RallyPoint Member, I wish you the best, just like MSG Wade Huffman said go with your instincts and everything he said I agree with whole-heartly. As you know this job(Soldiering) comes with desire, dedication and determination and a lot more of values, norms and beliefs. Follow your heart and it will lead you. I retired 31 December 2014 and I do miss it, but we all got to go sooner or later out the Military. Best Regards for Retirement or CSM. Keep in touch.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Jan 14 at 2015 8:41 AM

CMSgt James Nolan — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 08:41:48 -0500

1SG Private RallyPoint Member I can completely relate. To me, the .50 question is whether or not you feel that in a few years, you will be able to land a job...as you have one lined up now. I would think that you would, because you will have even more experience.

The benefits, I think, increase exponentially with the SGM promotion.

If you are questioning that ability to find a job, and if you are completely satisfied with where you have made it with your career, then transitioning makes sense. If you still love it and want a little more, then I would say go for it.

Of all of my friends who have retired, each of them said the same thing: I woke up, and realized I was ready to go. They left, still miss the camaraderie, but are happy with decisions.

Best of luck

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Jan 14 at 2015 9:56 AM

CW5 Sam R. Baker — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 09:56:08 -0500

1SG, the only thing I can contribute is when I got to Fort Rucker at TRADOC, several conversations happened with retired CW5 warrant officers. Many of my friends that are civilians say the same thing. All the retirees say that no one should stay one day over 20 and a day. My friends that have never served merely want me out to get me out of harms way and for me to get the opportunity to belly up to the local and sip beers on the way home from a job that is routine.

I never joined for the money and planned only to do 3-5 and get out to be a police officer. I got the eye opening experience to serve next to people from around the world and stay young through the constant cycling of new blood on active duty. You yourself look like the Army has treated you well and you it. So my advice (opinion) is that you stay, cause I sense you really like what you do and while we have job offers from abroad, it is the service that keeps us going. CW5 was NOT a goal of mine. Could have retired a CW3, but truly every time I meet a civilian, they do not think I am 52, but rather 42. Pretty sure that I would not be able to see my toes if I had retired 8 years ago by now.

I have faith you will do what is right for you. lastly, HH06 and the kids get a vote in my status, had my wife and kids not supported my career and asked me to leave, I would have, due to the fact they are all we have left when we get out. Losing them over staying will make for a lonely retirement.

My .02

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 10:15 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 10:15:14 -0500

These are all very good questions to ask yourself when the time comes to make a yes dare I say it a "life changing dession" becouse that is what it is. You have worked hard to get where you currently are If you are able to make the transition into the civilian world at a little more then what you make now then you are more then half way there already. It sounds like you just have to ask yourself Is this still as fun as when I first joined then you will know the anwser. It is a tough dession and ultimatly you are the one who has to make it good luck and remember no matter what you deside it was the best choice for you.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Jan 14 at 2015 10:19 AM

CPT Zachary Brooks — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 10:19:21 -0500

Go Guard. Take that new job and you still get your retirement. You can also push to make CSM in the guard and increase your pay when you decide to finally retire.

The most important question you should ask yourself is, do I enjoy it? Is it worth staying in?

Response by SFC Aaron Finley made Jan 14 at 2015 12:30 PM

SFC Aaron Finley — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 12:30:13 -0500

I say if you've still got some left in the tank then stay, if not run for the moutains...

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Jan 14 at 2015 1:41 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 13:41:28 -0500

You have surpassed about 98% of us already, Top. Well done and badass. No one can answer this question better than you. Transition is a beeotch and having another career post military is the biggest problem out there. The difference in retirement pay is peanuts at your level and 6 months of unemployment will negate that bump. Of course I make this statement because I am still unemployed so my opinion is somewhat selfish andbased on my situation. Military careers have to end eventually and just accepting that fact is difficult for career soldiers. Having a career that pays the same and ready to go sounds like a blessing from God. I'd jump on it brother.

Response by SFC Keith Frain made Jan 14 at 2015 3:27 PM

SFC Keith Frain — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 15:27:56 -0500

1SG Haro,

Retire! If nothing else, you said it...you have a job offer for next year. Let's do the math!

20 year retirement pay
XXXX amount of $$$ from you VA rating
New job paying a little more than what you are making now.

And....
Using your GI bill to further you education, collecting BAH while taking classes.

From where I stand your looking pretty good and you could most likely change your name to "Goose" due to the amount of Golden eggs your going to be sitting on! LOL

Congrats, and go where your heart is, your ass will follow! HOOAH!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 3:32 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 15:32:02 -0500

The best thing you can do is get out, take the job offer, and remake yourself in your new civilian job. It's gotta happen sooner or later. It sounds like you already have a plan for transition, so my advice would be to put it in motion now. Don't wait until you have the burdens of being a CSM, and the possibility that your job offer may not be there. Yes, I'm quite certain that you can get another job offer, most assuredly. But, do it now, while you're a bit younger, with a lot less stress to weigh you down.

That's just my 2 cents. I hope you find your way down the twists and turns of "civie street" (as our British allies call civilian life). Good luck either way Top!

Response by 1SG Cameron M. Wesson made Jan 14 at 2015 8:29 PM

1SG Cameron M. Wesson — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 20:29:23 -0500

1SG Private RallyPoint Member my 2 cents

As you can see I made the choice to retire. I did so knowing I was on the 04 USASMA list... And pretty sure I'd make SGM the following year.

Why? Family and life choice. Wife was a little tired of seeing the back of my head as I walked out the door. I was getting a little tired of missing those special days with the family... and frankly my body was falling apart and I knew it would only get worse... and I didn't want to be one of those NCOs just hanging out for 2.5% more per year and occupying a slot that I was not fit for. I still loved the soldiers and soldiering... but that's not everything.

I said the above to say this.

If you see yourself transitioning and able to do so with no regrets. Do it! I did so and have no regrets. I even transitioned without a clear idea of what I wanted to do and where I wanted to go. I landed on my feet and moving well. You're one up... You have a job lined up!

Some folks says its scary out here... I have not had that challenge... and I'm willing to bet neither will you. I don't see problems... I see opportunities... Every time I turn around.

Good luck and my 2 cents

Response by LTC David S. Chang, ChFC®, CLU® made Jan 14 at 2015 10:14 PM

LTC David S. Chang, ChFC®, CLU® — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 22:14:02 -0500

One of the things I would do is prioritize what is most important to you. This link may help http://artofthinkingsmart.com/2

Then rank order them. For me I liked the military but starting my own business was more important than doing my 20 years. I don't regret it at all! You can't put a dollar amount on pursuing your passion, but it may be worth taking some time see if that job you have lined up is something that follows your 5 Ps.

If money is important, I think doing a cost-benefit analysis would be worth doing. If you left now, how much would you get and how much your salary in your new job would be. If you stayed, your retirement would go up, still make money, and potentially still be on the track for E9. You can probably whip up an excel spreadsheet that has a yearly side by side comparison.

Basically this all boils down to opportunity cost. What do you give up in exchange for something else. Which one is greater? if you are able to put a numerical value and after analysis find out which opportunity cost is higher.

Congrats on 20 years, quite an accomplishment! Hope this helps.

Pursue your true life purpose

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 1:34 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 01:34:52 -0500

You can do eeet

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Jan 15 at 2015 1:52 PM

1SG Steven Stankovich — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 13:52:59 -0500

First, congrats on your milestone 1SG Private RallyPoint Member!!! I remember when I hit 20. I remember doing a sigh of relief that I made it that far and also some soul searching on the way ahead for my family and I. I talked it over with my wife first because quite frankly, if House Hold 6 ain't happy, no one is happy. I also knew that I still enjoyed putting on the uniform and doing the job. I thought about making SGM and then hopefully putting on a wreath and such, but I don't think either one of those are in the cards for me. But I do still love what I do. I guess the BLUF is that don't stay to try for CSM, stay in because you still love what you do. I have had plenty of friends who have retired who told me that you will know when it time to hang up the uniform. Good luck either way brother!!!

Response by SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. made Jan 16 at 2015 4:32 PM

SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 16:32:08 -0500

Good question, 1SG. I retired with 20 years and 1 day in 2000 as an SFC working in a MSG position for the last two years of my career. I was a drill SGT, recruiter, and instructor with 5 years TIG. My MOS changed from 44E4X to 63Z5X at E8. Needless to say, mostly mechanics were promoted to E8 back then.

Another reason I retired then was a basic financial reason. I was 38 and figured if I could at least enter college and the workforce at that age, I have have a better chance to achieve success out here. Plus, and some readers may not like this reason but the Army still expected the same from me at 1/2 the pay after 20. Half the base pay was mine whether I stayed in or not.

Since retiring , I've earned 3 college degrees. I've also had a great job with SSA since 2008 (a few years before I turned 50, which was my goal given all I had to do after I retired to compete).

Best wishes and God bless!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2015 8:41 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 20:41:33 -0500

As long as you have no regrets, either decision works.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Jan 20 at 2015 8:42 PM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 20:42:26 -0500

I was told by just about everyone I know, you will know when it is time to retire.

Response by CSM Michael Evans made Jan 21 at 2015 10:25 AM

CSM Michael Evans — Wed, 21 Jan 2015 10:25:03 -0500

1SG,

Haven been a CSM for several years now, I will tell you and many others, as several have already stated the obvious, stay and attempt for the selection to the USASMA. You will not waste your time or efforts in the process. The market is very good on the civilian sector, yet alot better for a former SGM or even CSM! If need be, send an email and Ill break it down more for you. Best of luck in your decision and hope to see your name on the upcoming selection list if you decide to stay!

Response by SFC Richard M. made Jan 21 at 2015 10:38 AM

SFC Richard M. — Wed, 21 Jan 2015 10:38:12 -0500

This may be over-simplifying your situation, but it's worked for me before.

If you've taken the time to process the pros and cons of a situation but still can't make a decision, flip a coin but don't look to see which side is up. It can help you use your gut to overcome analysis paralysis.

Designate each side of the coin for one of your two choices. flip the coin and cover it with your hand. Now, instead of looking at the coin, think about which result you hoped would be revealed. Most people have a subconscious desire for one decision or another to be chosen and tapping into your intuition can help you overcome decisions that can't be decided by reason alone.

Response by SGM Gregory Tarancon IV made Jan 21 at 2015 7:25 PM

SGM Gregory Tarancon IV — Wed, 21 Jan 2015 19:25:56 -0500

1SG Haro,

You are at a very important crossroad in you life both personally an professionally. My advice would be not to make a hasty decision. Do some soul searching and really define what are the pros / cons , risks , unknowns and potential fall out resulting from making the choice.

I think you will find that any decision will be a combination of factors which are important to you and not just purely economic.

A few years ago, I was sure that I was going to get out at 20 years and at the time I was ok with retiring as an E8. But, things changed - I was offered a retention bonus (which I took, and that kept me passed 25 years), selected to attend USASMA and subsequently was promoted to E9.

At the end of the day - I am glad I decided to stay to make E9. Additionally, I feel very grateful, humble and honored because I have the privileged to make a difference by leading soldiers.

The fact that I still get to train, coach and mentor NCOs and future leaders is an awesome trust. So for me, It doesn't get any better than that!

My congratulations on your 20 years of selfless service and Best of luck on your future goals no matter what road you choose!

Response by SGT Richard H. made Jan 24 at 2015 9:00 PM

SGT Richard H. — Sat, 24 Jan 2015 21:00:19 -0500

Stay in until they drag you to the gate kicking and screaming. That's my $.02

Response by MSgt Keith Hebert made Jan 24 at 2015 9:19 PM

MSgt Keith Hebert — Sat, 24 Jan 2015 21:19:49 -0500

Congrats on 20
When I was very close to 20(19 in fact) I realized that I wanted to retire as an E7( this goes back to my time in the USMC) so I ended up spending another 5 years(made 25 years) then punched.
I have to say that the last couple of years was rough. The idea of going to drill was exciting but when the weekend came I was dreading it. So I knew it was time.
Your decision is very personnel and I guess what I am saying is if you feel that you can sllstillvcontribute and the family is good with go for it

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2015 5:01 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Jan 2015 05:01:33 -0500

My number one question would be how is your family? I know a good wife and kids will always say do what you need to for your career.
My opinion for me is that by the time I have hit 20, my family will have sacrificed for a long time, and unless everyone is fully on-board, when I hit 20 it will be time to hang it up.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 12:17 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 30 Jan 2015 00:17:13 -0500

Everyone is going to have two pennies worth of wisdom to share and as I read some of their responses it swings in both directions. You have served honorably for 20 years and I personally thank you for that! Whatever your decision be an asset and lead with pride! Congrats on your achievement!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 4:27 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 30 Jan 2015 04:27:17 -0500

Just curious if you had made a decision yet. One option that may not have been mentioned already (too lazy to look), is to take the job and transfer to the RC. I don't know if there is a TPU sergeants major course at some RTI that can be done over bits and pieces instead of the (9 months long?) AC course.

Response by MSG Charles Brown made Oct 29 at 2015 10:57 PM

MSG Charles Brown — Thu, 29 Oct 2015 22:57:11 -0400

Well, I just made that milestone, I did 23 years and am retired now. It is still too new to cheer but I am happy. It just came a point in time where you have to say you are satisfied with what you have accomplished and listen to your body and family. I wanted to keep going but old injuries and new ailments made my decision for me. I commend anyone that wants to take CSM and tack on another 5-6 years, much respect. As long as your are healthy and have a good mindset and your family is with you-- Go for it!!

Response by SFC Gene Estep made Mar 25 at 2020 2:29 PM

SFC Gene Estep — Wed, 25 Mar 2020 14:29:53 -0400

Stay in as long as you can Top being a Civilian sucks! RLTW

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Mar 25 at 2020 2:43 PM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Wed, 25 Mar 2020 14:43:47 -0400

I spent about 6 years as an E8 and was making E9 but turned it down and retired. I had My 20 years in and would have had to move to a base I didn't want and of course serve two years in the grade to retire as an E9. I decided E8 was fine, I didn't want to move My assignment and if I could have stayed where I was it would have been different. Its not always that easy a choice and I do understand what Your thinking is. One friend of mine had been selected for Sgt Major but instead retired as a E8 First Sergeant but others did stay. I wish I had some good advice for You on that but either way I think You will do ok. I left with 22 years in an Air Force Uniform as a SMSgt, E8

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2020 3:03 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Mar 2020 15:03:59 -0400

consider: E9 pay is about $900 a month more than E8 pay. assuming you stay for 25, that translates into an additional ~$500 a month in retirement pay if you're AD. Plus retired SGM or CSM looks really good on a resume. I decided to stay past 20 to make LTC because of the retirement and I got my current job in large part because they liked the fact that I am an LTC.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2020 5:51 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:51:31 -0400

CSM if you want to! It's all up to you, but if I were that close, mmm...

Response by 1SG Thomas Jasak made Mar 25 at 2020 10:55 PM

1SG Thomas Jasak — Wed, 25 Mar 2020 22:55:58 -0400

1SG Haro - good evening. I was in your situation recently and just retired 2 1/2 years ago and my advice is the same as many on RP and to continue military career as long as you enjoy it! I ended up staying just over 21 and 1/2 years and was a 1SG for five different companies and at the 10 year mark I and my wife/family decided I was going to do 30 years but was also told throughout my career that I would wake up one day and realize it was time to transition and that I would fight it for a few months until I finally realized it was time to transition to the civilian world. At 20 years that is exactly what happened. I woke up one day and told my wife that it hit me just like I was told it would and I did fight it for about 3 months and then put in my retirement request in and retired a year later. I did not transition to the civilian world because I was not happy or proud to be in the military anymore - I was extremely proud and happy to be in the Army and would have made SGM/CSM eventually but it was just time for me to move on and glad I did. In the past 2 1/2 years I have thoroughly enjoyed working part time with the USPS and having so much more time to spend time with my family and to have time to take care of myself. I was also offered over 20 jobs in the civilian world as program managers and other executive level jobs for over 150,000 and turned them all down for a part time job at the USPS to keep me busy and for some extra income for investments and etc... Money is not the most important driving force in my opinion. I have saved enough money and with VA 100 percent disability and retirement pay I actually don't need to work but like having something to keep me active and have enough spare time for my family and myself and really enjoying not having to deal with any stress at work. Hope that information will be helpful for you and good luck in your future.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Mar 25 at 2020 11:59 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 25 Mar 2020 23:59:37 -0400

Do you still enjoy being a soldier? What do you know about the future position and the culture of the company? What does the heart, mind, wife say? I would say if both are similar in satisfaction, get the new job and make more money.

If you want to be methodical you can make a simple decision matrix. In the collums starting from the left column is the most important criteria. Lets say your left to right criteria is Family, Income, Job Satisfaction, Job Security etc...…… Assign it a weight like Give Family a 1, if Income is equal to Family give Income a value of 1 as well, If Job Satisfaction is less you can give it your best guess like .6, and Job Security you assign it a .5. Compare the relative weight or value based on Family. It should look like :

Family 1, Income 1, Satisfaction .6, Job Security .5 (these are your column headdings)

Stay In
Get Out

Give each column a value of 1 to 10 for each course of action. Ten being the best.

Now I am arbitrarily picking numbers but here it is:

Family 1, Income 1, Satisfaction .6, Job Security .5 (these are your column headings)

Stay In 7 5 7 9
Get Out 9 10 6 7

Stay In = 7x1 + 5x1 + 7x.6 + 9x.5 = 20.7
Get Out = 9x1 + 10x1 + 6x.6 + 7x.5 = 26.1

From this method Get Out has the most points and is the winner. Provided my math is correct. This will often just confirm your gut feeling. If you don't us this fine. At least now you have a methodical process to determine complex questions. If you do try this, tell me how it goes! lol

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2020 1:42 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 01:42:48 -0400

I retired (at 38) to spend much needed time with my family. The Military was becoming to exhaustive to enjoy anymore for me. Senior leaders were continually asked to do too much with very little. The military will move on brother. Good luck on whatever you decide.

Response by PO1 Lyndon Thomas made Mar 26 at 2020 12:08 PM

PO1 Lyndon Thomas — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 12:08:47 -0400

You've served and I'm sure you served very well! This decision is a personal one. Only you now what you have left to offer the Army It's men & women in uniform and the nation. You've reached a plateau not many are able to reach and that Sir is Very commendable. Whatever you decide must be a decision made for you and your family! wish you the very best and much success in whatever you decide! Salute