Retired Marine's uniform: Is this stolen valor or is there another reason?

2015-09-08T23:59:39-04:00

I came across this article and related picture and just about lost my mind. For the life of me I can't think why a retired Marine would go so far outside the box regarding uniform standards (e.g. blood stripe in white trousers, mini-medals in dress blues, etc.). What do you think?

ABILENE, Texas (May 24, 2015) - For Marine Gunnery Sgt. Richard Dobbins, Memorial Day has a great meaning. But it's not one that's unique to him.
The Vietnam War veteran said he lost friends on the battlefield. They were together through good times and bad times, he said.
But more good than bad, he quickly added.
"(Memorial Day) means missing my friends in the service," he said. "I lost a couple buddies in Vietnam. It makes me think of when I was stationed in Spain. We went to Japan, saw Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We were taken to Tokyo."
Dobbins spent Sunday morning dressed in his service uniform, surrounded by Boy Scouts, fellow veterans and interested onlookers at Elmdale Baptist Church. They, along with worshippers, paid tribute to fallen soldiers, former prisoners of war and other combat veterans.

http://www.reporternews.com/news/local-news/memorial-day-service-honors-those-who-served-and-those-who-still-serve_39209276

Memorial Day service honors those who served and those who still serve

Elmdale Baptist Church service honors those who gave the ultimate sacrifice and those who knew them with flyover and patriotic music Sunday

Response by SMSgt Tony Barnes made Sep 9 at 2015 12:07 AM

2015-09-09T00:07:35-04:00

Phony?

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2015 12:24 AM

2015-09-09T00:24:41-04:00

on one hand I can say I respect his service and almost say he has earned the right to do as he likes... then the Marine in me comes out and I say Unsat GySgt...

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2015 12:52 AM

2015-09-09T00:52:06-04:00

Maybe he's a fake Marine who really blew the whole uniform idea. It's extremely difficult for me to believe a hardcore Marine could be that non-regulation and not know it.

Response by Cpl James Waycasie made Sep 9 at 2015 1:30 AM

2015-09-09T01:30:29-04:00

Blue-White Dress[edit]

Blue-White and Red Dress Uniforms
Prior to 1998, the "Blue-White" dress uniform was authorized to be worn for the ceremonial units at Marine Barracks, 8th & I in Washington, D.C. (most famously the Silent Drill Platoon and Color guard). Since then, it has become the authorized summer dress uniform for all officers (it replaced, in 2000, an all-white uniform, similar in appearance to that of the Naval Officer/CPO white dress uniform), SNCOs (unless they are in formation with NCOs and junior enlisted personnel who are not authorized to wear the uniform), and by NCOs and junior enlisted personnel for ceremonies and social events only, if authorized and provided by the command structure.

Like the Blue Dress uniform, the Blue-White Dress consists of an "A" and "B" uniform, and is worn in the same manner as that of the Blue Dress uniform, except for the trousers, skirt, or slacks being white instead of blue. Unlike the Dress Blues, the Blue-White Dress uniforms do not feature the "blood stripe". As with the Dress Blues, the "A" is not authorized for leave and liberty wear. The white trousers are not authorized for wear with either the long-sleeved or the short-sleeved khaki shirt, precluding the "C" and "D" uniforms.

Response by Cpl Dennis F. made Sep 9 at 2015 3:58 AM

2015-09-09T03:58:56-04:00

Holy bat shit! Chesty, what the hell is that?

Response by Sgt Cody Dumont made Sep 9 at 2015 5:11 AM

2015-09-09T05:11:10-04:00

Clearly not a real Marine. Simple case of stolen Valor.

Response by Sgt Cody Dumont made Sep 9 at 2015 5:12 AM

2015-09-09T05:12:33-04:00

Very real, but the door you opened was never the door you thought you opened;)

Response by Cpl James Waycasie made Sep 9 at 2015 5:20 AM

2015-09-09T05:20:43-04:00

The trousers should not have a red blood stripe and ( my eyes are not what they used to be) it appears the hashmarks may not be on correctly. Hard to tell at that angle. I did see a picture on facebook of a man that kind of favors this fellow. He proved to be a phoney. Had both ribbons and medals on his dress blues. Hashmarks uneven and oddly spaced. Rifle and Pistol badges placed up high above the medals. EGA emblems cocked at various angles; He was was a total mess. If he had been in the Marines, it was obvious he was a Sh#t bird. But he was proven to be fake. The News media really hounded him for impersonating a US Marine Vet.

Response by Sgt Spencer Sikder made Sep 9 at 2015 9:34 AM

2015-09-09T09:34:29-04:00

Phony or just half-himers? Working in VA we come across vets who are "confused." Whether it's age, TBI, too many drugs, etc, just confused. When we think it's age related we try not to burst their bubble many times but gently lead them back to the factual explanations. As for posers, haven't come across any in a long, long time. The last time I politely said they were full of sXXX and they walked away, quickly.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Sep 9 at 2015 11:20 AM

2015-09-09T11:20:24-04:00

Yikes.

Response by SPC David S. made Sep 9 at 2015 12:31 PM

2015-09-09T12:31:58-04:00

“From the Halls of Montezuma” - I've never seen blood stripes on Dress Whites. Not sure if he's a fake (E3 or below would raise my suspicion). If I saw him I would ask him about his trousers - while unauthorized he might of added the blood stripes out of respect from his fallen friends. However as he is engaging with the Scouts it would be nice if he maintained the standards.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2015 1:10 PM

2015-09-09T13:10:05-04:00

There are dress regulations governing the wearing of service uniforms by retired personnel. This guy is not "regulation" in my judgment. Makes me wonder if he is a real Marine, or a "wanna be" imposter.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Sep 9 at 2015 1:22 PM

2015-09-09T13:22:26-04:00

I don't know the age or history of this Marine, but I'd caution against calling him fake off of a uniform error(s). There was another article on Stolen Valor about a Marine Master Sergeant who was a Korean/Nam guy. He was spotted by fellow Marines while boarding a plane in his Dress Blues with white gloves. His uniform was 8up with ribbons in the wrong order and wearing medals. He was "outed" and made a complete fool of until the family of that Marine got involved. It turned out he IS a Marine, and a highly decorated one at that with the correct rank on his uniform although his medals and ribbons were in the wrong places. It was also shown this Marine has dementia and was boarding planes looking like this on other occasions. I hate to see Stolen Valor like the next person, but before we bring down Thor's hammer and get ready to unload a metric load of asspain, let's do our due diligence and investigate. There are more than enough NCO's on RP to bring down Thor's hammer twice if this guy is wrong; how many will there be if this is a simple mistake and there are other factors involved?

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made Sep 9 at 2015 1:36 PM

2015-09-09T13:36:04-04:00

Imposter, pose, wanna-be. There is no way a retired GYSGT with over 20 years of experience is going to parade around in this concoction of a uniform. He has probably told the same lies so many times he now believes them. There is a big difference between telling big, exaggerated sea stories and this.
Bottom line: If you didn't earn, don't wear it. If you do, you are a thief and a liar. Hopefully he will be publicly outed as a fake.
Perhaps a few real Marines need to visit Elmdale Baptist next Memorial Day and see if this clown shows his face.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2015 3:43 PM

2015-09-09T15:43:27-04:00

I can tell you that my uniform as a retiree is far from perfect when I pull it out for Memorial Day, but I wear it to honor those we are remembering on that day. At the same time, I'm going to drop $100s to get it back up to perfect.

Response by Sgt Edward Allen made Sep 9 at 2015 4:29 PM

2015-09-09T16:29:10-04:00

While I cringe at seeing the uniform worn incorrectly, I must admit that after 25 years of not wearing the uniform, I sometimes have a hard time remembering the correct order of ribbons or medals. I would prefer that the uniform always be worn correctly.
That said, if it is stolen valor, then I believe the penalty should be jail or financial. Or, send them to combat so that they have the chance to earn that valor they so crave.
Don't live them live a lie, let them actually experience the reality!

Response by CDR Michael Goldschmidt made Sep 9 at 2015 4:56 PM

2015-09-09T16:56:16-04:00

I have a hard time believing he served. I can buy the mini medals and chock them up to dementia. He'd really have to put some effort into screwing up the trou, though. He'd have to get those at a costume store, because the USMC has NEVER used stripes on white trou.

Response by SGT Rick Ash made Sep 9 at 2015 5:21 PM

2015-09-09T17:21:58-04:00

This guy is 100% fake. Nobody forgets uniform protocol and the ribbon panels. Mini-medals on that jacket? Huh Uh. You gotta' call this guy on his BS. Whisper to him you know he is a fake and to stop TODAY or you will gather a couple of vet buddies and take it off him. Do you know his real name and if so is he wearing a name tag with his last name? This is stolen valor. And we can't allow it....

Response by LCpl Steve Smith made Sep 9 at 2015 7:00 PM

2015-09-09T19:00:30-04:00

I Completely Understand what you are talking about being a Marine myself. I do not believe it is Stolen Valor myself. I just think he's out of Regs. Would I call him on it? No, I think That's how he remembers the uniform being warn that way in his mind, And like Sgt Spencer Sikder said you run into a lot of old timer vets that are Confused when at the V.A., I don't see no intentional disrespect for the Uniform by him being out of Regs. I would either just let it go or wait till after the event or when he is leaving and strike up a conversation and say something like "I don't recall the White Trousers having a blood stripe ( Who knows maybe he feels that's part of a way to remember his fallen Brothers) and about the mini medals too, but in a non confrontational way. look at how many times shit like that have happen with active duty Marines. Hell even the Commandant Wore the Marine Raider Unit Patch on his Uniform to honor the O.G. Raiders he was talking with. Yes the did bring back the Marine Raider Title for the MARSOC units recently but he wore it a year or two before the change. (he did catch flack yes). I don't think making the GySgt stand tall and chewing him out would be the right call either.

Response by Sgt W Hibshman made Sep 9 at 2015 7:57 PM

2015-09-09T19:57:27-04:00

If he is posing as a Marine and never served or did serve and is wearing decorations or insignia not earned then it is stolen valor. If he is retired or prior service and earned the decoration and insignia then it is not stolen valor, just "out of uniform." I do recall that the blood stripe is sold separately and has to be sewn onto the blue trousers after promotion to Corporal. Perhaps the gentleman has gotten confused and had them sewn on his white trousers. Uniform regulations are confusing. I personally kept my dress blues for a long time figuring that I would be buried in them only to learn that I cannot. My period of service was not during wartime. So glad I didn't kick the bucket before I learned my error, eternity is a long time to try to stay hidden.

Response by SSgt Ben Cavell made Sep 9 at 2015 8:38 PM

2015-09-09T20:38:50-04:00

Very strange individual

Response by Capt Juan Alonzo made Sep 10 at 2015 4:12 PM

2015-09-10T16:12:13-04:00

This picture is on the newspaper site. Appears to be wearing dark trousers here! or is it the lighting? In another pic, that is more of a upper part, it shows that he is wearing a fourragere, must have served with 5th or 6th Marines.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2015 5:27 PM

2015-09-13T17:27:15-04:00

the Blue-White Dress uniforms do not feature the "blood stripe. I can not believe a real Marine Gunnery Sergeant would dress like this.

Response by CW3 Eric W. S. made Sep 14 at 2015 1:44 PM

2015-09-14T13:44:22-04:00

is that a dog or a horse above his right breast pocket?

Response by SGT Beau Thomas made Sep 16 at 2015 3:40 PM

2015-09-16T15:40:31-04:00

In my VFW post in Northern Utah, the WW2, Korean, Vietnam veterans are usually a mess and completely Out of any regs and usually pretty ragged looking. They do Honor Guard for about 5-15 funerals a week, Eagle Scout functions and a metric ton of community services. All unpaid. We also have a lot of heroes in the post, including an Iwo Jima marine and A Doolittle Raider(Chase Neilson, deceased). So their fubar uniforms really shouldn't be a concern in my opinion. They earned my respect before most of us were born, and I give it unconditionally.

Response by Lt Col Stephen Petzold made Sep 16 at 2015 4:06 PM

2015-09-16T16:06:28-04:00

He would need to be questioned to know for sure one way or another. It could be that is all he had. He might have wanted to wear the uniform again, but did not have the correct pants or medals, so he went with the closest things he had. We are all on the Internet so it is easy for us to order stuff, but many older folks are not, so it is not easy for them to get replacement items.

Again someone would need to talk to him, but if he is a Marine, then it might just be as simple as someone buying him a pair of the correct pants.

Response by TSgt Marco McDowell made Sep 16 at 2015 9:17 PM

2015-09-16T21:17:12-04:00

I'm late on this but the charge of "stolen valor" is misused constantly. It is not illegal to wear a military uniform or even claim to be a veteran, it's when you do it for personal gain that it becomes an issue. In 40 years I might be in the mood to wear a combo of my Marine Corps and Air Force uniforms. I've pulled my 50/50 for 20 and by that time, you can bite me because I'm 80 and could give a squirrel fart. I might even knife-hand you for good measure. Now if you catch me scamming to boost my retirement fund, by all means kick me in the chest, but if I'm reliving the best time in my life, leave me be.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Sep 18 at 2015 10:15 PM

2015-09-18T22:15:15-04:00

Occam's razor....

Response by SPC Duncan Maciver made Sep 18 at 2015 10:58 PM

2015-09-18T22:58:42-04:00

It could be that he was in a military honor guard with his VFW, we have many older vets that want nothing than to show after all these years they still looking e the country they served, and sometimes that means wearing as close to possible a proper uniform as you can get or remember. He is holding a flag sitting on the side of the road telling me there is a very good chance that he just marched in a small town parade. Can't stand the fakes but find out the facts first before you call him out

Response by Maj Michael Spehar made Sep 19 at 2015 12:17 AM

2015-09-19T00:17:35-04:00

I don't see how a Marine was stationed in Spain, unless he was at the Embassy. But why would an Embassy guard in Spain be sent to Japan? Perhaps he forgot to mention serving an Okinawa tour. He's not much older than I am, so I'm doubtful about the dementia angle. But who knows?

Response by Cpl Craig Robinson made Sep 19 at 2015 1:44 AM

2015-09-19T01:44:24-04:00

Not Stolen Valor if he is a Marine, just totally ignoring uniform standards but we shouldn't be too quick to judge you never know what any of us may do at an advanced age. just my opinion.

Response by SSG Brian Kresge made Sep 19 at 2015 7:52 AM

2015-09-19T07:52:03-04:00

This possible reminds me of the poor guy that was unnecessarily harangued over in Harrisburg.

I'm very much against Stolen Valor, but with all the people trying to scam using it, I prefer to focus my concern and my outrage on those. I've noticed, particularly with older veterans, that they often become very distant from uniform regulations. I've no desire to needlessly shame someone and demand their DD214 merely on the fact that they're not up on the order of the medals they've earned, or can't afford to buy larger replacements. The mini medals are less expensive for vets on fixed income.

I know there will be those who vehemently disagree, but after a while, the stolen valor thing makes us look more ridiculous than the posers. When I see videos of well-intentioned guys harassing posers at shopping malls, taking it too far with language and harassment, forgetting that while playing dress up may or may not always be a crime, harassment in most jurisdictions is. We need to climb down off our self-righteous high-horse and remember to comport ourselves with dignity befitting our own service. Set the example that the posers are violating! Because we burn our own credibility when we cross those lines, or when we go after a veteran with an honorable service record because medals are out of place.

Respect your elders, an old school American practice, assume innocence until proven guilty, a fundamental principle of our justice system that starts eluding us when we try these guys in social media, and only resorting to shame AFTER its been fully verified that they are lying or embellishing.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 19 at 2015 8:00 PM

2015-09-19T20:00:17-04:00

I would not care if he is in fact a Marine Veteran. I want his rank and his awards to be correct, but I think I will give him allowance for his age. I don't think it's my place to burst his bubble for which he partakes and feels passionate about.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2015 11:16 PM

2015-09-19T23:16:38-04:00

I hope this Boy Scout doesn't fall for the oldest trick in the book!...... The old "pull my finger, son" trick.

Response by Cpl Matthew Wall made Sep 19 at 2015 11:38 PM

2015-09-19T23:38:52-04:00

The blood stripe wasn't worn on white trousers. If he didn't have the blood stripe on you wouldn't know the difference. However, with the blood stripe it does stand out in a negative way.

Response by Sgt Michael Betts made Sep 19 at 2015 11:43 PM

2015-09-19T23:43:21-04:00

Several years ago I attended a Wounded Warriors' Marine Corps Birthday Ball where the guest speaker was Sgt. Dakota Meyer (MOH). In his remarks he mentioned that Marines LOOK at each other when we're in uniform to make sure each and every one of us is "squared away" with everything in its proper place. Coincidentally, when I went out to the "smoking area" in the hotel garage, I noticed a sergeant who had put the collar devices on his dress blues with "anchors outboard" and I took him off to one side, advised him of the discrepancy, and helped him make the switch.

If a Marine sees another Marine whose wearing of the uniform isn't right, he lets him know, not to shame him but to let him know he's out of regs and needs to make a correction. I would have taken this "old Gunny" to one side and let him know that he was not wearing a correct uniform. Would I have asked him a few questions to see if he had actually served in our beloved Corps? You betcha!

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2015 12:56 AM

2015-09-20T00:56:31-04:00

You wouldn't spend almost 24 years on the corps and retire as a gunny, fuckin fake besides the fact that the trousers are a dead give away

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Sep 20 at 2015 4:40 AM

2015-09-20T04:40:19-04:00

If in doubt do a freedom of information act request. Give him the benefit of the doubt ,, but generally if it walks and quacks like a duck, its a duck.

Response by PO1 Christopher DuBose made Sep 20 at 2015 5:43 AM

2015-09-20T05:43:27-04:00

I do enough crazy shit and I'm only 52. I'm not even sure I could put my uniform on properly today and would probably have to google it!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2015 7:28 AM

2015-09-20T07:28:15-04:00

For those in the Vietnam-era and before, life gets hazy and many want to relive a bit of their youth and as I see it younger veterans will one day get this. There are a myriad of reasons but suffice to say, if they are former military and claiming to be a general. np/

Response by Cpl Shawn Halloran made Sep 20 at 2015 8:54 AM

2015-09-20T08:54:19-04:00

In reading some of these replies on here I ask my self why and when would I think of wearing my uniform ( if it would even possibly fit ) as a civilian not that I don't like it or am embarrassed by it , but I see no need to try to show the world what I once was and all I did when I wore it was to do my job , and yes even though I do have some awards that show I went under fire and came back ( mostly intact ) I have no need to show others that have no idea what it means or is required to do this ..

Response by Cpl Tou Lee Yang made Sep 20 at 2015 1:41 PM

2015-09-20T13:41:07-04:00

He was probably a member of the 8th & I Silent Drill team who also stormed the Halls of Montezuma. If only I was part of that battalion at the Halls of MOntezume, I would put blood stripe on my white trouser as well.

Response by SPC Luis Mendez made Sep 20 at 2015 3:46 PM

2015-09-20T15:46:56-04:00

Aging, mental illnesses like Dementia and Alzheimer etc. Loneliness, need to attract attention for which even younger people are known for; Sometimes this follows to old age. And of course above all else, the current Enamoring and Fascinations with the Military of the Media and the Naive Populace.
A Naive populace that includes millions of men who since 1973, are for all and any practical purposes DRAFT Dodgers. That's 'cause they ALL Dodged the DRAFT after it was abolished.

Response by GySgt Moses Lozano made Sep 20 at 2015 9:23 PM

2015-09-20T21:23:41-04:00

I think ithe best thing to do would be to discreetly ask this individual if he knows he is out of uniform. Based on his response one should be able to tell if he is senile or just wants to be an imposter. Either way, the situation would dictate. There is no need to go off on anybody at a public event unless it is absolutely necessary. On a Marine base, it is not unusual to see a Marine get yelled at but in the civiiliand world it is not.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 2:02 AM

2015-09-21T02:02:02-04:00

The Blue White Dress (The Marines in Dress Blues wearing white pants) are for ceremonial occasions. They are usually worn by ceremonial units in Washington D.C. like the Marines on the Silent Drill Team or Color Guards.

Response by SSG Keith Cashion made Sep 21 at 2015 11:48 AM

2015-09-21T11:48:30-04:00

I read the story and read through a lot of the responses and threads, but here is the one thing that I don't recall seeing. Everyone wants to jump on the Stolen Valor band wagon and rip these guys apart (If warranted, I agree), but in this case, would it have been easier to talk to the gentleman as a human and try to dig into it a little more. A fellow Marine, can talk the individual up and ask simple questions about the uniform, and if the guy is legit and has been out of the service for a long time, how about " Sir/Ma'am, I know you have been out for awhile, there have been some changes to the wear of the uniform, can I give you a few pointers on the changes?" Like we have said, there are a lot of older veterans, that may not know the changes, and just need a little guidance. I personally think that those that are members of the VFW's can do the same thing for their vets at their VFW POSTs. You can have all the respect in the world for them, and still give them a helping hand, so that they do not become the target of unwarranted stolen valor attacks. Nothing hurts the Soul more than to be accused of stolen valor, and it not be true for a veteran. With a lot of these Veterans, this is all they have left. My half nickel for the day.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Sep 21 at 2015 12:03 PM

2015-09-21T12:03:19-04:00

The whole 'Stolen Valor' thing is getting really old. Not everyone wearing a odd-looking uniform combo is trying to steal valor. Before anyone goes pointing their fingers or accusing, I suggest they really evaluate just who they are accusing and what their history is.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Sep 21 at 2015 12:47 PM

2015-09-21T12:47:27-04:00

While I think we beat this whole Stolen Valor horse to death and back again, my question is this; why is he holding The Colors? Rather than just having a new flag, he decides to step out holding The Colors? Now if he was part of a colorguard, that makes sense but let's keep in the flag, the American flag which yellow edging is more than just a flag, it is The Colors and in my book holds a little bit of a higher status than just a flag.

Response by CSM Michael Poll made Sep 21 at 2015 1:17 PM

2015-09-21T13:17:32-04:00

I consider it Stolen Valor if #1 The person never served in the Military. #2 they are using the pretense of the uniform to obtain something
I do not think either are the case in this picture. I am sure when I am an old veteran putting on my uniform 20-30 years from now, that I will be not correct, but it will not be for anything other that to remember my brothers and sisters that did not make it back. I think this is all this Marine is doing, not to gain anything from it.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 1:31 PM

2015-09-21T13:31:59-04:00

Maybe at one time he was part of the Marine Corps Band. I know there was not a blood stripe on those trousers but they do where white or blue with red blouses. Maybe he added it to show that part of his service. Just an observation and trying to make sense of things.

Response by Maj Michael StClair made Sep 21 at 2015 2:25 PM

2015-09-21T14:25:07-04:00

I spent two tours in Viet Nam, and a total of 30 years on active duty, and am now almost 74 years old. Most of us who served in Viet Nam, especially from the 03 community lost friends - so in my mind at least, losing his buddies is no excuse for the uniform infractions. All that being said I still know how to prepare and wear a uniform, especially Blue Dress A. Don't know who this GySgt is but the guy needs to get some help. Its almost like he is playing make believe dress up. And I don't really care about how noble the gesture is - if you are going to wear the uniform and represent the Marine Corps then wear it correctly, or don't wear it at all.

Response by LTC Brett Weeks made Sep 21 at 2015 3:00 PM

2015-09-21T15:00:14-04:00

Whenever I hear the term "stolen valor", I always wonder: whose valor was stolen? My record is complete and intact- so I know it wasn't me. The achievements of my friends, both alive and dead, have not disappeared. My father, deceased Army Air Corps/USAF vet, has not lost any of his accomplishments. So exactly whose valor was stolen???

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 7:51 AM

2015-09-22T07:51:18-04:00

I won't even lie, the guy looks so salty that I almost didn't even see the blood stripe. I noticed the mini medals and that's when it hit me.
Who knows though, maybe he was a legit marine and just didn't give a damn about wearing that uniform combo.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 9:16 AM

2015-09-22T09:16:26-04:00

GySgt John O'Donnell,
This is definitely not a case of stolen valor, but the case of a elderly veteran who is proud of his country and his service and wants young boys to know what an honor it is to serve their country. Perhaps someone with some gentile tact could assist the elderly gentlemen with corrections to his uniform, but with all due respect to his age and distinction as well as honor for his service.

Response by GySgt John O'Donnell made Sep 22 at 2015 12:17 PM

2015-09-22T12:17:15-04:00

This topic has brought about a many positive debate remarks regarding "older veterans" within our great society, but there has also been some negative 'berating" remarks which in my opinion is not in line with the purpose of this forum. My initial statement was "For the life of me I can't think why a retired Marine would go so far outside the box regarding uniform standards (e.g. blood stripe in white trousers, mini-medals in dress blues, etc.). What do you think?". But some individuals don't seem to get past the seeing the headline picture, and reading of headline about "Stolen Valor". This topic was meant to encourage "critical thinking" about what to do when you come across situations like this.
Now that said, I still have been unable to confirm or deny the individual's status. If the "Gunny(?)" needs assistance, as a fellow "Gunny" I'm all about giving it. New trouser, medals, etc., I will honor my Brother, if he is a brother! But with all the "red flags", I am concerned. As I have said to other RP members, if he's a "confused Vet" I understand, but not many "Vets" confuse the conflict they served in (e.g. see detailed picture - Vietnam Service medals on top row, and Global War on Terrorism Service Medal on bottom row).

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 12:17 PM

2015-09-22T12:17:44-04:00

Why is this even being discussed? Is he doing anything wrong?? Is he trying to defraud anyone??
Am I missing something important here??

Maybe he just an old man who has forgot what to wear or maybe he's retired and that was the active uniform when he got out and it's authorized, or maybe is just some wack job trying to teach kids, fellow Americans, and boy scouts to respect our fallen. Bringing me back to my original questions why are we messing with him?? For a group of people that bitch and moan that our heritage is going away and no one appreciates us we sure do jump on and attack anyone who tries to support or educate people on that heritage ......give me a freaking break there must be something else the collective can focus it's power on rather than tearing about this guy.......you people make me never want to wear a uniform again because I don't want deal with people ....well being idiots.....seriously folks think about what message this sends.

Response by SPC George Rudenko made Sep 22 at 2015 2:00 PM

2015-09-22T14:00:22-04:00

As Vets get older, well, their memory fades etc. Leave the old Marine alone and let him tell his stories.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 4:09 PM

2015-09-22T16:09:16-04:00

This man has honorably defended his country and the right to wear whatever combination of uniform he wants. He has most likely been through more than any of us in the military, so questioning him for stolen Valor is very disturbing. Many need to go back and read what stolen Valor is, because this is not it. Many vets are very proud and want to put all their achievements on one uniform. They are no longer AD and probably have no idea what the uniform requirements are anymore. This man put that uniform on with pride, and that scarlet blood line reminds him of those he had lost and served with. He wants to honor those who have served and are serving, which makes this post even more upsetting. Do research and ask, or just don't post things to belittle an honored vet. The only person that this looks bad upon are those posting stuff like this, which is unfortunate.

Response by Cpl Ray Frigerio made Sep 22 at 2015 9:22 PM

2015-09-22T21:22:16-04:00

Hell , I've been out so long I'd probably wear an Alpha coat with my medals
! lol :)

Response by SPC Joel Brown made Sep 22 at 2015 10:25 PM

2015-09-22T22:25:43-04:00

I know nothing of the Marines uniform reg. but if this fellow is a vet he should be left alone regarding his uniform. If I were to see him in person I wouldn't have the slightest clue he was out of regulation, just as many civilians would not be aware. This subject seems to only be volatile within the services. The fellow is old, it's the young punks that need to be worried about, they have plenty of time left to scam people unlike this man.

Response by CPT Thomas Boone made Sep 22 at 2015 11:06 PM

2015-09-22T23:06:09-04:00

Probably stolen valor

Response by SFC Joseph James made Sep 23 at 2015 8:59 AM

2015-09-23T08:59:32-04:00

This might be an unpopular thought. If (IIIFFFFFF) this gentleman is a veteran who has been out of service very long time...I give him a pass! He earned a pass. Now as his peers we could help him out with uniform regs and placement rules. Kinda like "Hey thanks for your service. Would you mind if I showed you some tips on wear of those awesome medals you have?" Hey if not, I salute, smile and move out. If not stolen valor.. he earned the right to make newer "War Fighters" like me cringe a little!

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 9:13 AM

2015-09-23T09:13:16-04:00

To my understanding, there used to be a dress "blue and white" for the Marine Corps. Not sure what occasion it was for or if the "blood stripe" was authorized on the white pants but, they did have that uniform until the mid 90's I believe. Wasn't a common sight though.

Response by GySgt Corey Bowen made Sep 23 at 2015 9:53 AM

2015-09-23T09:53:42-04:00

I would think that when he was in they didn't have white trousers... So maybe he didn't know the regulations. As well as going to a cleanrs not familiar with Marine Corps regs can get you in trouble as well... Semper Fi.... 20 year retired Gunny...

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 10:55 AM

2015-09-23T10:55:47-04:00

I wonder what some of us would say if we saw a soldier wearing a uniform looking like this one...

Response by Cpl Joshua Vrooman made Sep 23 at 2015 1:14 PM

2015-09-23T13:14:03-04:00

The guy is old, probably has dementia, it is our responsibility as fellow vets and brothers and sisters in arms to do our due diligence and verify before we open our mouths. Case in point. I was at church last Easter and saw a female Marine with some of her family. I didn't recognize her as someone that had attended mass before. Some of her ribbons were out of place and she was sporting a male cover with her dress blues. Now I got out of the Corps in 08' so I didn't know that Uniform regs had changed to allow women to wear the male cover. I had to take a moment, calm myself down and looked up the regs before I opened my mouth, and I'm glad I did, saving myself, my family and her's a scene. Some of these younger vets that are dressed out of regs may also be suffering from traumatic brain injury, one of the biggest injuries treated in young veterans at the VA and may not have the where with all to know better. As we all know many bets are homeless and suffer from wounds that aren't always visible. If you are unsure of a person's military history or veteran status, by all means approach them but favor the kid gloves, to openly breaking out a knife hand. The guy you attack just might be someone that has lived and suffered more shit than you. For those that would use our good name and uniforms as a means to getting freebies they don't deserve, by all means knife hand away! :)

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 2:16 PM

2015-09-23T14:16:23-04:00

On initial observation, I thought about him being perhaps part of some veteran group, but then that stripe is just wrong.... Couldn't find anything on Google about any Vet/USMC group wearing something like this (sounds ridiculous, but seen some groups/militias wear near regulation uniforms).

Response by MSG Floyd Williams made Sep 23 at 2015 8:13 PM

2015-09-23T20:13:47-04:00

There are other ways to represent your branch of service like wearing headgear Retired U.S. Marine, or even a shirt with the same title that way it won't be no misunderstanding. It is embarrassing to call someone out accusing him or her of stolen valor, then it turns out the person is legitimate.

Response by LTC Henry Barber made Sep 24 at 2015 2:00 PM

2015-09-24T14:00:28-04:00

It is interesting that the military is the thing that he hold closest.

Response by SSG John Erny made Sep 24 at 2015 3:02 PM

2015-09-24T15:02:12-04:00

I would hazard to guess that a lot of guys from WWII, Korea, and Vietnam did not spend a lot of time in their dress uniforms, but rather the battle dress of the era that they served in. I have seen veterans in parades with their tiger stripe camo top on and jeans. The American Legion uniform is often seen with service medals as well. I have even seen bikers with their ribbon rack on their motor cycle jacket. I think the garrison uniform police need not worry about veterans uniforms so long as all else is legitimate.

For my self I only plan one wearing the uniform one final time many years from now I hope.

Response by Cpl Christopher Bishop made Sep 24 at 2015 7:52 PM

2015-09-24T19:52:40-04:00

I think people have become a bit TOO MUCH all about jumping on anyone even remotely suspected of any Stolen Valor. I'm not saying I'm ever happy about it. Especially when it comes to our older folks...they aren't likely to even remember every little detail about ribbon order of preference etc. In the last 25 years we have made leaps and bounds in terms of identifying and beginning to deal with PTSD treatment. You want to call out a 'Nam or Korea era Veteran for anything...shame on you...they got no "treatment" when they got home, if they were even lucky enough to make it home. No PTSD meetings, regular people spitting on them, calling them "baby killers", etc. They had one vice. Smoking Pot. If even that. If you are under 50 years of age...I don't care where you were or what you think you seen, you didn't have it like those guys had it, nor were you uprooted from your families against your own will. Not to mention, some of you went in and took on the least risky jobs in the least deployable capacities just to snag some college money, and never really did anything heroic yourselves. Yes, you may be military or a veteran, and Thank You for that service. But if you do not sport awards above the Presidential Unit Citation yourselves, and/or your only Bronze Star is an Admin version, Id suggest chilling out on the white-haired folks who might simply be desiring to show some of their own Patriotism and Appreciation for our current military folks (which in an of itself is a likely indicator they are a veteran, whether they got all their uniform ducks in a row or not). Just my 3 cents.

Semper Fi.

Response by CPL Brian Clouser made Sep 25 at 2015 11:15 AM

2015-09-25T11:15:15-04:00

What does the regs say about it? When in doubt, look up it

Response by SSG Brian Lovins made Sep 25 at 2015 11:49 PM

2015-09-25T23:49:55-04:00

I know I am late on this but oh well. I don't think he is hurting anyone especially if he is talking to scouts about what an honor it is to serve this great nation, especially in a time when patriotism is fleeting and no longer PC. He is at least 70, when my dad was 70 he would call me and ask if I had forgotten about him because I haven't called him this week even though I talked to him the day before. The point is he is old, he isn't trying to gain anything and I would say he is a positive influence if the scouts are letting him speak to the pack/troop, the scouts in my limited experience just don't let you show up to speak they either verify your story at the troop/pack level or if he is very active he has been back ground checked by the council. Memories fade over time, and if putting that uniform on even if it is screwed up allows him to recall both the good and bad then so be it. I wouldn't scrutinize someone that much more senior in age than I am, to me even questioning him would be disrespectful in my humble opinion not to mention the civilian sector would probably feel the same way, they could care less about stolen valor, they would see a much younger person bullying a senior citizen and that is all they would see. Anyway just my 2 cents.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Sep 26 at 2015 3:49 AM

2015-09-26T03:49:25-04:00

Gunny, I could not find anything that stated Marines ever wore Blood Stripes on white trousers. I'm not saying that GySgt Dobbins is stolen valor but his memory could very well be cloudy, maybe he never wore dress uniforms due to always being in combat, etc. and could very well just not know the regulation.

Response by Sgt William Barr made Oct 15 at 2015 11:01 AM

2015-10-15T11:01:29-04:00

I joined a Vietnam Vet group and was called a poser and I put a copy of my DD214-215 on the site and one guy was still bugging me, a nasty roid but I left the group and later some one ask him for his DD-214 and he didn't have it or lost it or it took a long time to get a new copy but I never call anyone out I don't know there story and if they are poser we can see who they are. Semper Fi . I must be becoming a cupcake in my old age.

Response by SPC William Del Valle made Nov 4 at 2015 6:05 PM

2015-11-04T18:05:00-05:00

Anyone who has been in the military more than a day knows that once you meet the "standards" you don't go below it, you only improve on it!

Response by LCpl Ash Carson made Nov 5 at 2015 3:07 AM

2015-11-05T03:07:06-05:00

I do remember seeing this. I would talk with the gentleman before I would make any assumptions on if he's a marine or a fake

Response by CMSgt Richard B. made Nov 14 at 2015 11:35 PM

2015-11-14T23:35:03-05:00

Regulations do change over time, and this might be a case of that. When I was a Legal Clerk in the Army National Guard, many years ago, I was awarded (on orders) an Infantry Shoulder Cord and wore it on my Class A's. I was just chatting with an employee of mine who is a retired COL who served at the same time and he mentioned that he also was awarded the cord as a medic in an infantry battalion. During that time, it was awarded to any soldier serving in an infantry unit, whether or not he had an Infantry MOS or was branched Infantry. The regs changed to "Infantry only" a couple of years later (mid 1980's).

Response by CMSgt Richard B. made Nov 14 at 2015 11:45 PM

2015-11-14T23:45:08-05:00

I agree with many comments about politely pulling him aside to help him get aquared away. And to politely ascertain wether he was legit. Not everyone knows the uniforming regulations and they can change quite a bit over time. My uncle earned a Navy Unit Commendation while serving with the 21st Marines in WWII. He would have worn that award on the left side of his USMC uniform along with his other ribbons. When he joined the Army during the Korean War, that same award would also be worn on the left side of his uniform with the other ribbons. He was also authorized to wear his Third Marine Division patch on his right shoulder as a former wartime unit. A few years later in the early 1960's the Army moved the wear of unit awards/citations to the right side. So if he wore his Army uniform to a veterans event in the 1970's he'd appear out of uniform to a new generation of soldiers. I also recently saw a great photo of a former commander of mine (COL, USAF) with his son, a recent graduate from USAF Basic Training. The Col was wearing an award in the wrong location. I politely called it to his attention privately, he thanked me for it. I am surprised that none of the "Sierra Hotel" Training Instructors at Lackland AFB caught it while he was there.

Response by Sgt Troy Fallert (Gurlin) made Jan 8 at 2016 11:39 PM

2016-01-08T23:39:39-05:00

If he's "retired" then he should still be required to follow uniform regs,
and Marines police ourselves by bringing that situation to his attention out of respect for each other our traditions and our beloved Corps! Carry on and Semper Fi!

Response by SP5 Dennis Loberger made Dec 28 at 2021 8:38 PM

2021-12-28T20:38:15-05:00

The article indicates he is in fact a real Vietnam vet. If that is the case, he is now a civilian and can do what he wishes.