Religous Beards?

2014-01-30T22:17:07-05:00

So now that the Army has made it so you can grow a beard for religious
reasons, does that mean anyone that claims Jedi as their religion can
grow a beard? How many other religions allowed within the military will be allowing Service members to begin wearing facial hair?
Currently, Excluding limited exemptions for religious accommodation, the United States Army, Air Force, and Marine Corps
have policies that prohibit beards on the basis of hygiene, the
necessity of a good seal for chemical weapon protective masks, and the
official position that uniform personal appearance and grooming
contribute to discipline and a sense of camaraderie (cited from a DC District Court Civil Action).

Response by SFC James Baber made Jan 30 at 2014 11:00 PM

2014-01-30T23:00:59-05:00

Sir,

I do think we are going a little overboard with the accommodating regulations changes and/or exceptions, I feel that since we have been an all volunteer Army for almost 40 years, the key word being volunteer, if you can't abide by the guidelines set up from the start then don't come in. While I believe in equality for all who wish to come in, then they need to equally accept the standards as well, and Congress needs to stay out of the military requirements that have been very effective for numerous generations with no problems, only within the last decade + has the issues that have come up have changed the reality of compliance.

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made Jan 30 at 2014 11:12 PM

2014-01-30T23:12:18-05:00

Let's hear it ladies and gentlemen! From what I understand, this will be left up to the commander to determine what is best for their unit. So officers, what will your limits be?

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2014 9:08 AM

2014-01-31T09:08:17-05:00

That's ridiculous.  Not all Jedis wear beards.  Did you see Mace Windu with a beard?  Yoda?  Nope.  It's not a function of being a Jedi....<br><br>and I guess since my brother named his son Luke, with a middle name of Sky (no that's not a joke, my brother's an idiot).....I can claim Jedi heritage....so I know.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2014 10:03 PM

2014-01-31T22:03:14-05:00

devil's advocate. i am a catholic soldier, but i want a beard. why is my religion not good enough to allow me to grow a beard? or side burns?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2014 11:28 PM

2014-01-31T23:28:12-05:00

I personally believe that there is nothing wrong with growing a beard for religious or non religious reasons.  My problem would come with the fact that some personnel dont even comb their hair, how could we expect them to comb/maintain their beard?  Other than that I dont understand the dogma behind the hatred of the beard within the military community.  It wasnt that long ago that beards were permitted throughout the US forces.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2014 12:11 AM

2014-02-01T00:11:27-05:00

I don't have a problem with Soldiers wearing beards. Just as long as they understand that there could be health problems such as death when their mask won't seal. There does need to be grooming standards enforced.

Response by SSG Oliver Mathews made Feb 1 at 2014 1:34 AM

2014-02-01T01:34:38-05:00

The way i see it, with the current way the military forces are being treated inside and outside of our country with the attacks on soldiers in the last few years. It would almost move the army to relax the grooming standards in a garrison environment.

A loser standard can help shield soldiers from immediate targeting and help us blend into our environment better.

A Mask may not seal around a beard but while in garrison do you always have your mask?

Now again this would be Garrison standards...

Response by SPC Davie Harvey made Feb 1 at 2014 12:05 PM

2014-02-01T12:05:36-05:00

My personal belief is that you joined the military knowing that you would have to adhere to certain standards. My religious belief is Rastafari, but you do not see me crying about not having my dreadlocks, or beard cause I CHOSE to serve. (I do have a shaving profile, but for medical reasons)

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2014 9:43 AM

2014-02-02T09:43:01-05:00

I can understand the Army wanting to be tolerant of those with religious beliefs that may include growing a beard. But I also belief that there are Soldiers that will INTENTIONALLY use this as an excuse to "claim" a religion just to grow a beard.

I know a few people that went a got a shaving profile even though come Monday morning they are clean shaven. When posed the simple questions to ensure they aren't breaking their profile, they respond shaving with an electric razor poses no issue. If you have an electric razor than and it works without causing the problems that prompted you to get the shaving profile in the first place.....why not use the electric all the time????

I truly believe this will get out of hand quickly and soon our Army will be looking raggedy and not the "professional" fighting force I came up in.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2014 9:47 AM

2014-02-02T09:47:24-05:00

I'm not a religous person by any stretch of the imagination and I am all for reasonable religous accomodation for our service members, but this is beyond rediculous. All we have heard over the past couple years is how the Army needs to get back to basics. I don't think that relaxing our grooming standards falls into that category. I heard a Soldier the other day say "Great I can grow a beard under false pretences and perfectly within standards, but because I have tattoos on my arms that makes me a s&%tbag?"

With decisions like this being made we won't have to worry about downsizing because all our good Soldiers are going to throw in the towel and call it quits on their own.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2014 12:32 PM

2014-02-02T12:32:55-05:00

<p>What if these Soldiers joined Rally Point? Do you think they would feel welcome or resented? I'm going to find them on ako/enterprise and see if they can offer more points of view to this discussion. </p><p> </p><p>This article is old, but this was (then)SPC Simranpreet Singh Lamba's story when he first came to our unit:</p><p> </p><p>http://www.army.mil/article/58866/</p><p> </p><p> </p><div class="pta-link-card"><div class="pta-link-card-picture"><img src="http://usarmy.vo.llnwd.net/e2//c/images/2011/06/02/199285/size3.jpg"></div><div class="pta-link-card-content"><div class="pta-link-card-title"><a href="http://www.army.mil/article/58866/" target="_blank">Sikh Soldier answers lifelong calling to serve</a></div><div class="pta-link-card-description">Spc. Simranpreet Singh Lamba, who is the only enlisted Sikh Soldier in the Army, is stationed at Joint Base Lewis-McChord, Wash.</div></div><div style="clear: both;"></div><div class="pta-box-hide"><i class="icon-remove"></i></div></div>

Response by SSG Laureano Pabon made Feb 2 at 2014 1:08 PM

2014-02-02T13:08:46-05:00

Religious beards?

A question that I myself asked during my time of service.

Even though I was aware that only the NAVY were allowed to grow beards, the remaining of the Armed forces were not....

Religious Beards.. I often found it interesting that many Christians in the military don't question that fact that the one whom they value above all, himself had a Beard. That is correct, Jesus did in fact had a Beard, in every image ever created by this famous man not once will you ever find him with out a beard. I just thought I bring that up here as a way of thought only.

Military regulations rules and such can perhaps be changed, but to look at it a bit closer, only an education in the reasons why can provide an understanding of the why's.

This link may provide a very small amount of information that may perhaps explain some reasons why the military may not have wanted long hair or beards during my time. This may make one think twice about long hair or growing beards:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/136740-mites-that-live-humans-hair/

Mites That Live in a Human's Hair | LIVESTRONG.COM

According to the Society for the Advancement of Education, 96 percent to 98 percent of people have mites in their hair. Mites are microscopic bugs that generally live in harmony with their human hosts...

Response by LTC Joseph Gross made Feb 2 at 2014 6:55 PM

2014-02-02T18:55:11-05:00

Could everyone here please attempt to seat your Protective Mask while "sporting a beard". After that, get back to me and tell me why this is even a legitimate discussion.

Our political morons/masters made yet another PC mistake by allowing beards.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2014 11:37 AM

2014-02-03T11:37:47-05:00

Many Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines seem to think that beards are a part of ancient military history but, in fact, were not outlawed by the Navy until 1985. The Coast Guard was the last to order clean chins in June of 86. The sole reason given was that facial hair interfered with the ability to get a full seal from a protective mask.

I guess this means that anyone wearing a beard for religious reasons will have to be able to hold their breath for a very long time. But in all seriousness, if this force protection measure has become outdated enough to allow some Soldiers the right to wear a beard, perhaps it is time to look at the policy for all military.

And before people flip out saying it presents an "unprofessional appearance", I completely agree IF standards are not set and upheld. Everyone of us sees soldiers with hair, uniforms, boots, etc. out of regulation on a regular basis and that is my basis for defining what is unprofessional. A properly cared for beard is NOT inherently unprofessional.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2014 11:06 AM

2014-02-07T11:06:34-05:00

Prediciton sir,

It'll only be Sikh and Muslim who are allowed to grow beards for "religious" reasons.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2014 11:12 AM

2014-02-07T11:12:25-05:00

That is....unless your religion sometimes happens to be hunting down bad guys in BFA

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2014 10:07 PM

2014-02-12T22:07:22-05:00

Why do you have such an axe to grind with the Jedi sir?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2014 10:25 PM

2014-02-12T22:25:47-05:00

I think our "one standard" Army can get into trouble when it starts allowing for that "one standard" to be circumvented, especially when it is so easily linked to politics.

If we are making amends for one group, we should make it for all. Beards for everyone or not. Period.

*soap box alert*

In the same vein as everyone being on the same standard, I think we should make the "never ever will I run again" profiles a bit harder to obtain. I get frustrated running my semi annual APFT as I watch these young bucks walking 2.5 miles after playing football the night before.

Adrian Peterson blew out his knee and ran for 2000 yards the next year. A Soldier tears a MCL at 19 and walks the APFT for 19 years.

If someone was chasing them with a knife, I bet they would run.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 13 at 2014 4:23 AM

2014-02-13T04:23:15-05:00

I would like to know more about your beard Sir :D

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2014 12:18 AM

2014-02-15T00:18:01-05:00

If your religion prevents you from shaving why join the military?<div><br></div><div>If you were a vegetarian and a PETA activist would you get a job at Burger King and expect them to stop selling burgers?? NO!</div><div><br></div><div>We are becoming to PC for our own good. Again if a certain job goes against your moral or religious beliefs do not pursue a career there. If you feel the need to serve your country do so as a civilian. </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2014 11:18 PM

2014-03-08T23:18:25-05:00

I am entirely against being allowed to grow a beard for religious reasons. Even if one did change their religion while serving, they still joined the military knowing that the regulation states they must be clean shaven. Don't get me wrong I would love to be allowed to grow a beard, but I'm not going to change my religion just to be allowed to. That is where I see a lot of issues going to be coming into play. Once a waiver given to one person, then everyone is going to try to get a waiver for the same reason. I can understand the need for SF and SoG to need to grow a beard, due to the nature of their missions. But I have seen what they have to go through just to be allowed to grow that beard. Everyone else on the other hand has no need to grow one. Unless the Regulation completely removes the clean shaven part, psst it's getting even more strict actually, then I feel no one should be able to grow a beard or long hair.

Response by Sgt Randy Hill made May 23 at 2014 12:21 PM

2014-05-23T12:21:53-04:00

I can see it in special duty situations where the psychological operations in a muslim nation are being conducted.Even special forces units have opted this strategy in certain situations. Otherwise step closer to the razor unless you have a medical waiver.

Response by SSgt Paul L. made May 23 at 2014 2:52 PM

2014-05-23T14:52:24-04:00

Actually, the DOD Instruction supercedes all the orders within each branch. The process, however, still requires approval from a commander. I don't see how a Muslim or Sikh in the rear can readily be denied growing their beard for religious reasons so long as it's genuine. I have no problem with it.

It's the fuckheads who will try and claim it just because that will be upsetting to me.

Response by Cpl Chris Rice made Oct 3 at 2014 2:34 AM

2014-10-03T02:34:17-04:00

I think that society has shown over and over again that you can allow conditional deviations from the norm, and not have a total melt down. For example the Amish, Mennonites, and Quakers will not serve in combat, and many refuse to if drafted serve at all. This is exemption that is allowed, and has not destroyed society. Should forward deployed troops be required to shave the religious beard? I think it may be prudent, but I also have trouble seeing how it hurts readiness, but then special forces has beards; aren't they the most ready? Do not tell me it is to blend, the Irish guy with big red beard, and the Black guy with a shaved head and beard do not blend to the Afghanistan public, and those were most common styles of the guys I saw (They were still more bad ass then me).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2014 5:45 AM

2014-10-03T05:45:56-04:00

What I don't understand about a lot of these "accommodation" rules these days such as religious beards is we are in the service. We are here to serve, by choice, and a big part of that service is giving up individuality. I’m Catholic and at certain times in my career I have been unable to do what my faith asks for my county. It is a choice I made, if I don’t want to do that I can get out. Just my $.02.

Response by SGT Gabriel G. made Oct 22 at 2014 5:43 PM

2014-10-22T17:43:17-04:00

I think on a case by case basis, they could.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 12:40 PM

2014-10-25T12:40:14-04:00

FEAR THE BEARD>>>> ahhhhhh

Response by SPC Nick Osborne made Oct 28 at 2014 9:33 PM

2014-10-28T21:33:04-04:00

As much as I would love to believe how cool it would be to have a beard whilst in uniform, the uniformity rule still applies. Since I've got out of the Army, I've grown a pretty awesome beard. I often go to veteran events and get many compliments on it. I even get asked, "Wouldn't it be cool if we could've had beards in uniform?"

Yeah, it would have been... but not everyone can grow a beard. Our Commander had a very strict uniformity policy. We were all in the same uniform, same headgear, footgear, etc. 1SG would enforce it to the letter... and that's how it should be. We were a more cohesive unit because of it, I believe. We worked well together and brought everyone home from deployment.

Sometimes, it's the little things. We sweat the small stuff because that's the stuff we might miss and that's the stuff that goes down hill fast, causing that mole hill to become a mountain.

We have a reason for everything.

Response by SSG Tim Everett made Nov 6 at 2014 12:11 PM

2014-11-06T12:11:24-05:00

Norse Paganism is a religion, I think. I think we need a Norse Pagan shaman (not chaplain, heh) and religious exemption for beards. Oh yeah. Think of how terrifying that would be: a bunch of bearded hooahs carrying combat tomahawks and screaming at the bad guys. Bricks would be shat, I tell ya. BRICKS.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2014 3:58 PM

2014-11-06T15:58:03-05:00

I can't wait to qualify with a lightsaber!

Response by SFC Vernon McNabb made Nov 10 at 2014 3:27 PM

2014-11-10T15:27:15-05:00

I think the best way to get people to not want a beard in the military is to require random CBRN Mask training.
1. All masks will be kept in a central location and issued when necessary.
2. Two hours prior to event, notify whatever percent you are testing to meet at the issue area.
3. Maintain positive accountability.
4. Those personnel with facial hair are not allowed to leave the area until after they have tested their mask fit in a CS chamber.

After that, they may be more inclined to shave when they realize they can't get a good seal on their mask.

As far as everyone looking uniform without facial hair, that makes about as much sense as saying everyone will need the same hairstyle to look uniform. If that were the case, everyone needs to see my barber (me) for a haircut.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2015 3:07 PM

2015-01-23T15:07:48-05:00

Searching around on the net and I like this idea "The Full, Untrimmed Beard-A Sign of Manhood" I feel that if we continue to cave to the Muslim and Hindu based on their religious faith then we lose! How can we let the Atheist bully Christian principles out of the military but allow Muslims and Hindu's to bully us in to allowing them this aspect of their religion? I just do not get it. I stopped shaving the day I retired, never shaved on weekends and while on leave. However, in uniform I felt like I was squared away as I should have been.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Jun 17 at 2015 5:38 PM

2015-06-17T17:38:36-04:00

MAJ Howard Palmer, forget the religion grow beard because we are in lands where the beard is a sign of respect and authority. No wonder we don't do well there we do not use their culture correctly.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2017 12:19 PM

2017-01-05T12:19:51-05:00

If I remember right, there was an Airman back in the 1990's that tried to justify splitting his tongue because he was Wiccan and it was part of his religion. I brought this up because where do we draw the line? Which personal religious accommodations do we sacrifice uniformity and standards for, and which ones do we forbid? When everything was one size fits all, this was a non-issue.

Response by PO2 Alan Deardorff made Apr 3 at 2018 6:31 PM

2018-04-03T18:31:15-04:00

Muslims and Jains both wear beards as part of their religion

Response by SGM (R) Antonio Brown made Jan 11 at 2019 12:42 PM

2019-01-11T12:42:41-05:00

It the late 70s a Army Rabi petitioned the Army for the right to wear a beard for religious accommodation and was successful. So the beard situation is nothing new to the Army.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2019 1:50 PM

2019-01-28T13:50:50-05:00

Those under my BN that claimed Muslim are able to have a beard, less than 2 inches. I grew mine out as a Heathen- now I need to meet with the Chaplain at BN for permission where as others have not been scrutinized.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2019 5:45 AM

2019-11-30T05:45:32-05:00

Jesus had a beard and he must be exemplified!
I don't know why we are so restrictive on facial hair. CBRN isn't a good reason to oppose beards because in 23 years and 7 deployments I have been operationally at MOPP ready for about a week and I can shave faster than a unit can issue protective masks.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2022 4:03 PM

2022-05-22T16:03:46-04:00

So are you saying ALL religious accommodations should go away- including Sikhs and Muslims as those are the two most prominent groups with beard accommodations?

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2024 2:07 PM

2024-08-21T14:07:19-04:00

LTC Joseph Gross - I can seat my mask with a beard… and have seen numerous others. Would you prefer video (which is readily available online), or the personal accounts of the dozens of others that have done it?