Regulations? Lawful Orders?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Dec 2013 09:00:54 -0500

A lot of our regulations need to be revised in order to get rid of "grey area" that may be misinterpreted. When a situation falls into an area that isn't specified in a regulation, can a lawful order be given in regards to that situation?

Example: AR 670-1 doesn't specify the mix of PT clothing with civilian clothing. I don't agree with the mixing of PT and civilian attire and would tell a Soldier to change their clothes. My order is lawful because the Soldier wouldn't have to break a law to follow it.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Dec 2 at 2013 9:12 AM

SGM Matthew Quick — Mon, 02 Dec 2013 09:12:30 -0500

Army regulations cannot cover each and every possible scenario...this is why the military has commanders.

Commanders, advised by the senior enlisted advisers, must do their duties and weed through the gray areas.

On the flip side, too often we have service members trying to use regulation for their own benefit...they normally know what 'right looks like' and choose to test leadership at every corner.

Response by CPT Daniel Walk, M.B.A. made Dec 2 at 2013 10:08 AM

CPT Daniel Walk, M.B.A. — Mon, 02 Dec 2013 10:08:15 -0500

You can always give an order to effect the behaviors of your subordinates. A couple things are important to keep in mind. Make sure your directives are inline with the policies, philosophies, and/or goals of your own superiors. Take the time to communicate up or do the research. Reduce the chance that you come out of left field and damage your senior / subordinate relationships by overly or under restrictive.

Second, never forget as an NCO your most important mission is to replace yourself with competent future NCOs. Do your best to impose restrictions with a purpose (training, safety, command directed, etc...) and make that purpose clear, and how it will serve to improve the subordinates' chances for success. Enforcing your own opinions, just because they are yours, will not instill discipline, it only teaches learned helplessness.

AR 670-1 does not say that the IPFU can be worn in combination with civilian uniforms. For that information, you have to go find the ALARACT that authorized and set uniform policy for the IPFU. I have no idea what the ALARACT number is, it was years ago. This is a huge problem in an Army that relies heavily on ALARACTs and MILPERS and hardly stops to update the primary sources that we use to know the Army's expectations.

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Dec 2 at 2013 10:11 AM

CW2 Joseph Evans — Mon, 02 Dec 2013 10:11:46 -0500

"Probably all laws are useless; for good men do not need laws at all, and bad men are made no better by them" ~Demonax

What
is, and is not, a lawful order can, and will be debated. So, how do you
handle a situation where you are making an on the spot correction on a
Soldier not in your unit? Are you making the correction based on Army
Regulations, General Orders, Unit Policy? Are you 100% sure of the reg,
or are you trying to correct a pet peeve? Are you going to be able to
explain effectively to the Soldier the reason (yours or the Army's) for
the needed correction?

We'll use the situation that brought this
up as an example. The Soldier is in the gym on personal time in a mixed
uniform. The reg states that this is ok. The training schedule does not
specify the uniform for this time. The local "Blue Book" has authorized
it to help the local community to recognize the Soldier-Citizens living
within the community and the part they play in supporting the local
economy.
Now, you have a pet peeve, barking at the Soldier is not in
support of Army, Post or Unit policy. In this case you had better have a
good justification for your pet peeve or the Soldier (if he's smart)
will look at you, say "Three bags full" and move out never to be seen
again, behavior uncorrected, otherwise the two of you are in a
"discussion" that will likely have you standing in front of his
commander explaining why his Soldier needs an article 15. If your issue
won't stand that test, I recommend you let it go. In this case, the
Soldiers, despite being on personal time were authorized (ordered)
civilian attire as their duty uniform. Wearing any part of any Army
uniform at any time defeated the purpose of their "relaxed" standards.
Therefore, a good reason for them to adopt all civilian attire at all
times.

Regs, are a lot like the warning labels on curling irons.
There to guide in best practices, largely because some idiot did
something so stupid that required it be written.

I guess my point here is leadership and mentoring. You need to find a means to motivate Joe to do the right thing for the right reasons, otherwise he just goes back to being the slacker.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 12:29 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 12:29:13 -0400

Why would you take away the ability of individuals and leaders to exercise their own authority by codifying everything to the nth degree?