QMP Process is ineffective. What are your thoughts on this situation?

2015-04-16T16:29:27-04:00

A guy I know is getting the boot. Ranger, medic, SF, all that jazz. After 18 years in the Army for sleeping in his car after going through a divorce. Yup. Gone. I guess since he didn't have 1000 letters from generals and stuff, his time spent down in the sand was all for not. He watched friends die, saved a few, gave his blood and still, we cant articulate the sacrifice this guy gave. If you're curious, he was never even charged with a dui. Th. R local authorities wouldn't even entertain it. But he was reprimanded by his unit. What are his options now? Anyone, everyone? Give me the regulation or book where I can find it to help him. we owe our knowledge to all who have suffered from the pink slip after serving in this hellish time.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 17 at 2015 7:46 PM

2015-04-17T19:46:25-04:00

I don't know the regulations but sometimes a fair decision needs to be found at higher HQs after exhausting all channels.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Apr 18 at 2015 8:51 AM

2015-04-18T08:51:00-04:00

I understand the struggle you are facing MSG Private RallyPoint Member. Brother, after meeting you and through discussions, I think we are from the same cloth and the problem is bigger than this individual, it is MUCH bigger than an isolated case here. I am not going to diminish the specific case here (you have my personal number and with the respect I have for you, you are ALWAYS welcome to call me on any subject, regardless of the time of day!)

We (you can see it much clearer now that you have experienced it so closely to you) have the responsibility to call the shot. We will have a changed NCOER this year due to this subject. How many of your subordinate NCOs are really a 1 - 1 performer? I mean, considering our experience and the sacrifices we've seen, now compare that to the actual organization we are in.....do we say that they are all 1 - 1 performers simply because SPC Jimmy or SGT Sally show up to work on time and have reduced the outside appointments to only three per week, that SSG John or SFC Jill improved their APFT from a 202 to a 211 they deserve to be a 1 - 1....do they really earn those excellence ratings on their report cards?

Brother, we all (on the ground level) are deciding who is staying or who is leaving our Army by the evaluations we create and in some cases that we simply give away without really being earned. It is the leadership that needed the azimuth check and that is the reason for the new NCOER. I will provide a topic later concerning what we have created (from within) which is why we are very fortunate we had a few people with the guts to call the shot and get the "system" (NCOER) changed before it continued to get out of hand.

Continue standing tall, continue supporting this professional but understand you might be surprised if you knew everything brother....often times (and I am talking from experience - very recent experience), often times we invest ourselves and fight the fight only to find out we didn't quite know the entire story. It is nit always the case however, it is often the case.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2015 5:35 PM

2015-04-19T17:35:25-04:00

QMP is very ineffective. Several NCO are getting the boot for minor problems. I myself and on the list and still waiting my fate. I failed a weigh in at the end of my rating period many because I had several broken bones during the time period and was on dead man's profile. That resulted in me getting a 4 on my NCOER. One I recovered I was off the program. QMP should be an option but for people who have a pattern of issue not simple mistakes.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Apr 19 at 2015 11:55 PM

2015-04-19T23:55:26-04:00

First, the QMP/OSP letters should come with an appeal process reference. I have seen senior NCOs in the past, with strong chain of command support, be retained on active duty.

Second, unfortunately, in period downsizing, like now, lots of good Officers and NCOs are asked to leave, as the Army does not have the space for them. It sucks, but the DOD is huge operation, wherein we are all simply numbers filling spaces.

http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/ad2014_06.pdf

The process, appeal/rebuttal, etc. should be in AR 635-200,

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2015 10:29 PM

2015-04-20T22:29:24-04:00

The regulations were changed as of April of 2014 to essentially allow no appeal unless there was something wrong or misfiled in his records. The Army removed any appeal that allowed a Soldier to demonstrate improved performance and even removed the option for a battalion commander to submit an appeal on the Soldier's behalf. Even USASOC was only allowed to retain 50% of NCOs submitted for QMP. Many of these NCOs were SF and Ranger qualified with multiple specialty skills and had direct strategic level impacts. There is no option to fight it, JAG can't help, commanders can't influence the decision and civilian lawyers are a waste of money. Welcome back to the Army of the 90's where combat experience counts for nothing and grey men with "zero defects" will lead the way until the next war.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2015 12:38 AM

2015-04-21T00:38:18-04:00

Not necessarily helpful for his case, but in a worst case scenario he may be able to finish out his time in 19th or 20th group. They're quasi-full time and I can't see them turning him down already being qualified like he is. It would be worth looking in to. I wasn't able to find much on google, maybe one of our S1 types can clarify this.

Response by Amber Graves made Dec 5 at 2016 11:57 AM

2016-12-05T11:57:18-05:00

Has anyone gone to congress or anything with this? I know we did and were told that it is not an issue because noone else is bringing it up. What are your thoughts on trying to ban together to get this changed? My husband had almost 16 years in between his 10 years in the Guard and 5 1/2 years as AGR with the Reserves. He got booted for a 4 on his NCOER from 4 years ago. His commander at the time never gave him counselings but used his NCOER to "motivate" him to be a better soldier. His commander was new at writing NCOER'S and didn't understand the impact this could make on someone's career. Why should a soldier be impacted because a commander is new to the "job"??? Getting one 4 on one NCOER your entire military career should not be a cause for QMP. The commander that gave him a 4 wrote him 2 good NCOERS after that one so obviously he had improved. The commander also wrote him a memo for the QMP appeal but because it wasn't an administrative issue, the board didn't review it. Like stated from others, there should be a pattern of people getting 4's to get kicked out. I know people with multiple 4's or Article 15's and they got demoted and are proud that they missed the QMP. That makes me sick!