Put in for MSM-Downgraded to ARCOM. Signed order issued 6yr ago as MSM (ARNG). I'm in the ANG and want it fixed. Advice? Suggestions?

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Nov 2016 10:51:20 -0400

Response by SFC George Smith made Nov 3 at 2016 10:53 AM

SFC George Smith — Thu, 03 Nov 2016 10:53:58 -0400

apply for a Re look ... but not many of them get Up graded

Response by GySgt Bill Smith made Nov 3 at 2016 11:23 AM

GySgt Bill Smith — Thu, 03 Nov 2016 11:23:20 -0400

Be happy with what you got.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Nov 3 at 2016 11:40 AM

SSG Trevor S. — Thu, 03 Nov 2016 11:40:59 -0400

I had three MSM's downgraded to ARCOM before my MSM was approved for my retirement award. Two were re-writes. The one that wasn't a re-write means more to me than an MSM. The CW2 that wrote it fought it through to the BDE Commander and caused him to have to sign the downgrade. IMO that took fortitude and set a good example on how to treat Soldiers and NCO's under you.
My point is, an award isn't just promotion points. Sometimes it tells a greater story.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2016 11:43 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Nov 2016 11:43:41 -0400

When they selected the Downgrade box on the back of the DA638, what did they put in the Comments block?

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Nov 3 at 2016 1:28 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Thu, 03 Nov 2016 13:28:09 -0400

Unfortunately, many awards get approved/denied based on the recipient's rank regardless of accomplishment. If the original was downgraded, I wouldn't hold much hope of having the ARCOM upgraded to an MSM. There is always an exception to every rule so nothing lost by giving it a shot. I'd send the request to AFPC and see what happens.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Nov 3 at 2016 1:42 PM

CSM Richard StCyr — Thu, 03 Nov 2016 13:42:28 -0400

At which level was the down grade? MSMs are approved at the 2 star level, rarely and I mean rare like an albino Bison will the approval authority go against the intermediate commanders recommendation and upgrade a service award. Look at your DA638 awards recommendation.
I once got orders for an MSM on a group orders document prior to an awards ceremony when I was a SSG only to find out it was incorrect and the clerk had shifted everyone up one space, and while I had been recommended for an MSM it was in fact down graded to an ARCOM the orders were rescinded and amended. In the end I was happy to get the ARCOM on awards day because someone cared enough to write it up.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2016 2:34 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Nov 2016 14:34:05 -0400

Check the awards regulation. The last time I looked, there was a "statute of limitations" of 2 years.

Response by MGySgt James Forward made Nov 3 at 2016 3:51 PM

MGySgt James Forward — Thu, 03 Nov 2016 15:51:10 -0400

Not how we do in the Corps, majority of the time YOU have no idea that you have been recommended for an award. The whole purpose of letting the person know that he is recommended is so if the award gets down graded there is no ass pain. So I would say suck it up, wear what you got with pride and keep charging! Asking for an upgrade on an award looks real bitchy to me. We don't do the promotion point deal for awards in this gun club. Semper Fi.

Response by MSgt Richard Randall made Nov 8 at 2016 8:52 AM

MSgt Richard Randall — Tue, 08 Nov 2016 08:52:12 -0500

I'm not making any value judgements on why you feel you deserve an MSM, but, this is the general description and guidelines for the award of the MSM from Wikipedia:

The Meritorious Service Medal was previously awarded as a decoration for achievement during peacetime, but effective 11 September 2001, this decoration may also be bestowed in lieu of the Bronze Star Medal for meritorious achievement in a designated combat theater. Normally, the acts or services rendered must be comparable to that required for the Legion of Merit but in a duty of lesser, though considerable, responsibility. Within the U.S. Army, according to AR 600-8-22, Paragraph 3-16, the MSM may not be upgraded to or downgraded from a recommended Bronze Star Medal. In the Army, an MSM recommendation that is downgraded will be approved as an Army Commendation Medal (ARCOM).

In the U.S. Army and U.S. Air Force, recipients of the Meritorious Service Medal (MSM) are typically field grade officers in pay grades O-4 through O-6 (major, lieutenant colonel, colonel), senior chief warrant officers in pay grades W-3 through W-5 (CW3 to CW5, Army only), and senior non-commissioned officers (E-7 to E-9) in both the Army and the Air Force. Award of the MSM may be for meritorious performance while serving in a staff position as a field grade officer, senior chief warrant officer, or senior non-commissioned office, or, in the case of field grade officers, for successful completion of a command tour at the battalion (Army) or squadron (Army or Air Force) level. Award of the MSM to company grade officers in pay grades O-1 through O-3 (2d lieutenant, 1st lieutenant, captain), junior warrant officers/chief warrant officers in pay grades W-1 and W-2 (WO1 and CW2, Army only), and junior NCOs in pay grades E-6 and below is rare and typically by exception.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2016 11:09 AM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Nov 2016 11:09:50 -0500

I have to say that in the Air Force, awards are given out like candy - someone goes TDY to backfill for a deployment and they expect to get an award for it. I served 5 years on AD in the Navy and only got one award - my good conduct medal - 4 years consecutive good service (hardest medal for a sailor to get).

Response by SSgt Michael Cox made Nov 9 at 2016 11:06 AM

SSgt Michael Cox — Wed, 09 Nov 2016 11:06:52 -0500

Just because your supervisor said he was writing you an MSM doesn't mean you will get that I had 2 AFCM written for me one was downgraded to an AFAM the other was dropped altogether. I know for the AF MSM's are reserved for E-7's and above not sure about the Army.