Purple Heart for Mental Health issues due to combat stressors? What you thinkin'?

2014-03-20T12:23:44-04:00

Do Soldiers that develope mental health issues due to combat stressors deserve consideration to receive the Purple Heart?

Response by SFC Robert Trodahl made Mar 20 at 2014 12:34 PM

2014-03-20T12:34:34-04:00

Not as it is written now, but dare I say it.............we would need a new medal (cringe)

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Mar 20 at 2014 12:40 PM

2014-03-20T12:40:55-04:00

This is an interesting question for sure. While PTSD and the such are service connected injuries I've yet to see someone be awarded the Purple Heart for it. Is it a combat injury? Heck yeah. But then the question becomes how it is awarded. Does the guy that was blown up, ejected from his turret in the middle of MSR Tampa get it while the service member who has issues related to mortars being fired into their camp does not? If we start awarding the medal so "freely" does it lose some of it's prestige?

Response by SSG Jason Hoadley made Mar 20 at 2014 1:14 PM

2014-03-20T13:14:08-04:00

With Reduction in Force plainly written on the wall....

I think highlighting those with PTSD would be an easy way for the DOD to find people to cut..

PTSD should not be a badge or medal, it is a medical condition...

And should be treated as such, with the HIPPA laws protecting it

If it is decided that there is an award of some form for PTSD, it should only be awarded at either the SM's ETS or Retirement.. .

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2014 1:27 PM

2014-03-20T13:27:38-04:00

I will just say this I have Purple Hearts and also have PTSD
that I am being treated for. Do I think someone should receive it for combat injures
yes for non physical injuries no. Let me just reiterate I have BOTH and I don’t
think you should get one for PTSD because of the fact that someone that has
never been shot at nor been under attack can develop PTSD and the PH is
reserved for Combat injuries!!! Should it be recognized Yes with VA benefits
not a Medal!!!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2014 3:24 PM

2014-03-20T15:24:05-04:00

Awarding a metal specifically for PTSD would not provide and easy list to cut, there are a few things that the army gives awards to who either include people who could be cut or exclude them.
For example, the PH, it signifies a soldier has been injured in combat. The soldier may" not be as fit for duty" as your peers from their injury, however just because they were given a PH does not mean they can no longer meet standards. They may still perform above or at level with their peers. This would apply the same with PTSD, just because they have it, it does not mean the soldier may or may not be able to perform at level or above their peers.
Now for something that the army could look at for cutting soldiers by exclusion would be the GCM. But in this situation that does not necessarily mean that the soldier is sub-standard to what the army needs. It could just be that there was a period where the soldier had a rough patch but made the corrections the soldier needed to make.
I believe that if they did make a specific medal for mental health issues as a result from combat it would not create an easy list to cut from simply because every case is different.

Now for the other side of the coin.

If the PH was expanded to include mental health issues, I do not think it would loose some of its prestige. Largely because Mental Health Issues are becoming more widely accepted as legitimate injuries. However, there will have to be some way that a line is drawn between the soldier that had IDF on his FOB and the soldier that has been in Direct Fire. Or, the line could be drawn elsewhere such as --- does the soldier that develops mental issues from severe personal issues back home --- get it?
I assume the biggest issue would be to determine where the Mental Illness developed from. This is where the medical field should (I am unsure if they can or not) be able to identify what caused it. Was it that the soldier watched half his squad get blown up by PBIED or was it that his wife left with all his savings leaving him in debt, that finally caused the mental issue?

The PH has been changed A LOT since its inception, and including mental issues from combat is just another step in its lifetime.
If they do leave the PH as it is and specifically excludes PTSD, I think Mental illness will continue to not get the complete recognition it deserves.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Mar 22 at 2014 1:50 AM

2014-03-22T01:50:27-04:00

Too easy to fake.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2014 3:40 PM

2014-03-23T15:40:27-04:00

To the question of combat stressors (PTSD), no I do not believe that it is a qualification for the PH, nor should it be. On the other hand, the idea that a person has to "bleed" in order to be considered is also absurd in some situations. I am aware of individuals that received actual gunshots and penetrating shrapnel and others that received superficial injuries during a combat situation but both received the PH because the enemy forced them into a combat situation. I do believe that TBI from direct contact should be a qualification; if anyone has ever rolled over an anti-tank landmine or taken a RPG to the armor of their vehicle (but didn't bleed), then they know the pain from the concussion blast (I do). Out of a 15 month deployment to Iraq and multiple vehicles lost to landmines, not one received the PH from my unit, CAB yes, but not the PH even though we carry the scars on the inside now.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2014 5:47 AM

2014-03-26T05:47:22-04:00

I'd have to agree with 1SG Cottrell on this one, PTSD and combat stressors should not be awarded the Purple Heart, for two reasons:

One- I'm on my third combat tour as a Combat Engineer, conducting Route Clearance Operations. After three tours, one Iraq and two Afghanistan, I believe I've developed a minimal amount of PTSD (in my opinion, my wife would try to say otherwise). Caveat to those, I have YET to earn my CAB. I've seen my friends in front of me and behind me (vehicle wise) get blown up. I've even sent my own soldiers home missing limbs, but have yet to experience it myself. God willing, I wont have to. but that's just it; it's POST TRAUMATIC stress disorder. Any stressful event that the individual is not prepared for or able to handle can cause it. Initial Entry Training (Basic) sadly enough has caused PTSD in some. Is that deserving of a Purple Heart?

Two- The Soldiers we have these days (generally speaking) assume they are entitled to a lot. They also learn how to work "the system" rather than adhere to the rules and regulations. What makes you think, if the individual is dedicated enough, that he wouldn't "fake" PTSD to receive an award?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2014 1:07 PM

2014-03-27T13:07:07-04:00

As far as I understand, the Purple Heart is awarded to the recipient of a physical combat sustained wound. So going along with that, PTSD doesn't qualify. PTSD can be from anything, not just being in a combat zone. Now, my question is should people who have suffered from a TBI be awarded a Purple Heart? My opinion is yes. A TBI, usually caused as a result of being exposed to an IED blast, will effect that person forever. Physically and mentally.

Response by SPC Bennie Day made Mar 27 at 2014 3:43 PM

2014-03-27T15:43:53-04:00

Purple Heart for PTSD, I don't think so. As someone who is rated by the VA at 70% disabled for PTSD alone, I do not see how giving a Purple Heart for is justified. Frankly to be completely honest, PTSD is to easily manipulated. For example people that do not ever see combat claim it, because they knew someone that went into harms way. Then you have those FOBIT (POGS) that never leave the relative safety of "the wire", and a mortar lands a few hundred meters away from them, and they already get awarded a bullshit CAB. Why would we want to encourage more degradation of real combat, that us GRUNTS do....Thanks, but NO THANKS.

Response by SFC Ed Carr made Jun 9 at 2014 11:50 AM

2014-06-09T11:50:17-04:00

I say no to PTSD and yes to TBI. I really don't have much other than TBI actually is the result of a sustained head injury.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2014 11:58 AM

2014-06-09T11:58:51-04:00

SPC,
PTSD and TBI's are certainly very real wounds of war however they are much more difficult to diagnosis than "physical" wounds. As our understanding of PTSD and TBI's increase I think we could very possibly see this happen in the future.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2014 1:36 PM

2014-06-12T13:36:19-04:00

SPC,
Just saw this, it seems some soldiers are getting Purple Hearts for TBI's. I definitely support this 100%

Response by SPC Joshua Dawson made Jul 14 at 2014 7:51 PM

2014-07-14T19:51:16-04:00

I don't think they should be because they would certainly have to change the guidelines of the Purple Heart Award for such a thing to happen. I was almost denied my Purple Heart and I was wounded by shrapnel from an incoming mortar round.

Response by COL Randall C. made Jul 27 at 2014 8:58 PM

2014-07-27T20:58:37-04:00

SGT Alicia Brenneis, you're half right - PTSD currently doesn't, but TBI may as long as it meets the eligibility criteria: That it is the result of a "wound, injury or death and must have been the result of an enemy or hostile act, international terrorist attack, or friendly fire; and the wound for which the award is made must have required treatment, not merely examination, by a medical officer." (you can find all the specifics in DoD Manual 1348.33, Volume 3, Paragraph 5.c - http://goo.gl/1FHDaF)

To your specific question though. There is a lot of debate on this regarding awarding a PH for combat related 'psychological wounds' (as opposed to physical wounds) suffered by service members, specifically PTSD, with good arguments for and against it being included. While I would be in favor of it if you could definitively tie it to an event that meet the eligibility above, because of the factors involved in PTSD, it might not be feasible (was the PTSD caused by this specific event that did match the eligibility or was that they another contributing factor?).

Finally, disability pay does not equal Purple Heart eligibility. Just because you have a rating doesn't mean it's because of the above criteria.

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Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2014 5:49 PM

2014-07-28T17:49:02-04:00

The Purple Heart was awarded for Heat Stroke...

http://articles.dailypress.com/1990-08-26/news/ [login to see] _1_heat-exhaustion-gen-carl-vuono-purple-heart

Recent Award Insults Purple Heart Holders

At a bedside ceremony in Texas, the Army chief of staff awarded the Purple Heart medal to hospitalized Pfc. Grant Gipe, a casualty in Operation Just Cause in Panama last December.Paratrooper Gipe...

Response by SPC Joshua Dawson made Jul 30 at 2014 1:59 AM

2014-07-30T01:59:37-04:00

I just think this is funny because my request to even get a Purple Heart had to be sent up twice because they denied it the first time, when I even have shrapnel fragments embedded in my body. I have been fighting with the VA for over four years now trying to get the benefits that I deserve but they are literally bending me over and fucking me at every turn. I just recently got a statement of the case on my notice of disagreement and they are still denying my PTSD claim even though in the paperwork that they sent me it clearly states that me being awarded the Purple Heart proves that my PTSD was caused by my combat experiences, not only that but what little ratings increase they gave me they fucked me out of the backpay for it claiming that I didn't meet the criteria for it until this year, even though I have medical documents about the chronic injuries going back over 10 years!

Response by SGT David Taylor made Aug 3 at 2014 11:42 AM

2014-08-03T11:42:28-04:00

My response. A simple no.

Out of curiosity, is this now happening, or something being considered?

Response by SPC Richard White made Aug 3 at 2014 4:53 PM

2014-08-03T16:53:55-04:00

From my perspective The Purple heart is awarded for those who are physically injured.I think PTSD doesn't qualify for a metal however it does need to be recognized by the VA as an injury.
I have lived with someone who had PTSD from the Vietnam War and yes he needs help.

Response by Jeff Uyak made Feb 2 at 2016 12:26 PM

2016-02-02T12:26:22-05:00

Old topic, new interest. Are any considerations being given to change existing eligibility regulations for WWII veterans who were POW but not directly physically injured by bullet or bombs? Think in this case about a frontline infantryman during the Battle of the Bulge -the largest land battle in history- who experienced mortar and artillery fire, capture, forced marches over many miles without adequate clothing, imprisonment, near-starvation and contraction of disease (TB) almost resulting in death, yet being denied the Purple Heart because his injuries (bear in mind this is decades before the term MTBI came about) were not "directly due to enemy fire". In an effort to correct the slight, the POW Medal was devised, but is there a good reason to also decline the Purple Heart? Would there be a good reason to not retroactively apply many of the newer MTBI standards to FSM from WWII? Besides, there are just too many people who don't recognize the POW Medal at all... to add to that, I am sure that there are Korean War and Vietnam War veterans who have also suffered the indignity of being denied the award for the same reason.