Officers: How do you feel about NCOs? What would you define an NCOs mission to be, and how do you feel about the promotion rates?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Mar 2014 15:55:10 -0500

How do you feel about NCOs?  What would you define an NCOs mission to be, and how do you feel about the promotion rates?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2014 9:42 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Aug 2014 21:42:36 -0400

As a former NCO, I would say to follow the advice given in the NCO creed. I always value the NCO creed to this day and say it proudly anytime I hear it. In part three regarding "Officers of my unit will have maximum time to accomplish their duties; they will not have to accomplish mine", I always thought most of the Officers were lost. What I truly realized in serving as an HHC XO in 2BCT, 82nd Airborne Division... is that any Officer ( and NCOs) can easily become overwhelmed. It's not that the Officer's were lost, ... as an NCO... I did not take into account in the amount of responsibility an Officer had and all of their additional duties (yes, meetings are vital to planning even though they take much of the time and it killed me as an NCO to sit in my OICs meetings because I was unable to execute missions... so the OICs need to do this part)

I tried to take on too many tasks as an XO in having pride as a former NCOIC and Asst Plt Sgt. At that level, I had no LT peers to assist me (because its not a typical company and there are no PLs). In networking with the section NCOIC of the each of the shops, they accomplished many of the things that needed to be done. It was painful at first because many of the systems I inherited were broken. What I ignored was much of the planning in accomplishing of those tasks. Lack of planning, but task accomplishment does not truly solve the problem. Trusting and involving all NCO as well as junior Soldiers is most important. As a result of the section NCOs accomplishing their duties, I was able to focus more on planning, maintenance, and other difficult tasks that had to be covered for an HHC, BCT (this took three months to transition over).

Basically what I am saying is that your job is vital to every Officer within your organization. That is only half the part. The main part is taking CARE of the Soldiers, inspiring, and growing them to become excellent NCOs. As a result, their leadership supports their OICs. In return, the OICs support their NCOs in earning their trust in: "I will earn their respect and confidence as well as that of my Soldiers". Basically, the NCO is the backbone that strengthens the Officer Corps and the development of the Soldiers that grow and support the missions of the Army as a whole. Hope I did not ramble to much, but the XO job during GRF really made me see all levels at play and how much the NCO creed serves as a guide for all regardless of rank. I share that knowledge to many of the junior Soldiers to help see the whole picture (because I wish I could have know this as a SPC back then)

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Jan 15 at 2015 4:06 PM

CPT Zachary Brooks — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 16:06:59 -0500

NCOs have been the backbone of everything I have done. They are always there to support me and assist me in completing my mission. They are knowledgeable and always willing to give suggestions and ideas where needed or asked for and are not insulted if we go another way.

If not for NCOs, Officers would fall apart.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 4:18 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 16:18:24 -0500

The truth Bad and Good. You asked and I will be honest. Every CSM I have worked with (often working to identify the problems and remove them) has had this conversation with me; none have disagreed. Fluffy comments are for the weak.

I feel the back-bone is not as firm as it once was. Competence and Loyalty have suffered among many NCOs. I feel many are more self-interested but that is not all enterely on the NCO Corp. I have seen officers propping up weak NCOs and vice versa. Some NCOs may not like this but I give all benefit of the doubt but I do not waste my time anymore if I come upon a lack of effort. I move on but I do not looking down on those who resist; because if the push back is respectful criticism, then they are thinking. Follow through is everything, I have never seen anything as beneth me so I will do any and everything. However, if I am always doing everything and you are doing nothing; to be honest that is because you are not a leader or I think your incompetent. Another way to tell is if I do not praise you in public and private. I like to praise. My advise is give me your advise, if someone tries it your way also try it theirs. Sometimes you may learn as well. Do not get it twisted, the promotion rates have been fast in both rank structures for a long time; we are all learning. If you are not learning; then you may be lazy or an obstructionist. That is the criticism and if you were offended then may be you are part of the problem.

Now the good NCO's are being asked to do more work that was restricted to the officer ranks; most are exceeding expectation. Unfortnately, they may not be reconginized. I have seen true leaders amoung NCOs train ranks 2 levels down and below to do that NCO's job. When I see that, I am like wow, I want to do whatever it takes to make this guy successful. Because if he keeps doing this, my job becomes easier and I have more time and credibility to now help this NCO. Now if only all NCOs understood how to do this. There are other national militarys where NCO's do not have the level of power and responbility that they we have in the US military. You have control and influence the fight.

Support the Commanders always, advise the officer if you have one. Respect the Junior Enlisted, other NCO's, and Officers. Be competive but don't be petty. I really rely on good NCOs and I will only try to develop those willing to aleast consider what I say.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jan 15 at 2015 4:24 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 16:24:21 -0500

I could be wrong, probably am, but it was always my understanding that the role of the commissioned officer was to designate the mission, make decisions, and take responsibility. It was the role of the NCO to delegate mission assignments to subordinates based on intimate knowledge of each persons' strengths and weaknesses, supervise their performance, and "fill the gaps". These roles were obviously interrelated and complementary.

Yes, commissioned officers should heed the advice of their subordinate leaders, but the decision is still theirs to make and responsibility to take regardless of their experience or lack thereof. A commissioned officer who doesn't understand where "the buck stops" isn't worth anything. Sadly, there was an abundance of commissioned officers who were only too willing to pass the buck leading me to doubt my response to this question.

But, commissioned officers can't follow the advice of NCOs blindly, especially when NCOs are wrong or two equally placed NCOs (for example, two squad leaders) differ in their advice.

Then there is the problem we had in Vietnam with a paucity of experienced NCOs. I was handed a set of sergeant stripes to hand out to the most "likely" candidate among the E3s and E4s. There wasn't an E6 or E7 anywhere in sight. To compensate, the Army created the NCO academy and those graduates were about as qualified as graduates of OCS.

Response by LTC David S. Chang, ChFC®, CLU® made Jan 15 at 2015 5:22 PM

LTC David S. Chang, ChFC®, CLU® — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 17:22:21 -0500

Definitely the backbone of the Army. Money, resources, ideas, technology don't matter, people do. In my businesses, military units, political, and non-profits, what makes or breaks an organization is having the right people on the right bus, and in the right seat.

NCOs execute and implement the plans. Officers all day long can be creating OPORDs but won't matter until it is executed. NCOs do that and my life as an officer would have been miserable with them doing their jobs. I have had some that weren't that great, and it showed...and vice versa!