Now that DADT is out in the open, how do I rectify in my mind about sharing a shower or latrine with a gay soldier?

SFC William Farrell — Sat, 23 May 2015 19:49:08 -0400

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2015 7:55 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 May 2015 19:55:02 -0400

Well the only thing different is your knowledge. He is the same guy as he was yesterday,

Response by SFC Robert Wheeler made May 23 at 2015 7:58 PM

SFC Robert Wheeler — Sat, 23 May 2015 19:58:19 -0400

My aren't you being awfully conceited! 1. Gay people are NOT interested in you. You are not their type because you are straight. So, they are not going to be looking at you lustily. 2. How would feel about them saving your life or sacrificing theirs for yours? I bet you wouldn't even think about them being gay.

You need to get to know some gay people so you won't go through life with your sphincter pinching off your blood stream and causing brain fade. Seriously, knowledge is key. Oh, and the funny thing is, you might have been showering with more than one gay person all along because they don't make it a habit to announce their sexual identity to world no more than you would.

Response by SPC William Weedman made May 23 at 2015 8:00 PM

SPC William Weedman — Sat, 23 May 2015 20:00:10 -0400

The same way you share a latrine with a gay civilian outside the military, I think. There have been gay soldiers since the formation of the Continental Army, only they were not "open" until recently. When I was in the military, I never gave any thought to anyone else I used the latrine/shower with other than avoiding towel snaps and the other grab-ass that tends to go on after PT. I don't believe that would change if I were still serving. I suppose my final thought is, where are you sharing shower facilities nowadays other than the field or maybe PLDC? I don't recall sharing shower facilities since AIT.

Response by CH (MAJ) William Beaver made May 23 at 2015 8:25 PM

CH (MAJ) William Beaver — Sat, 23 May 2015 20:25:34 -0400

Nobody will be oggling you. Non issue

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2015 8:30 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 May 2015 20:30:16 -0400

I would approach it the same way you did first coming into the military. I believe you had to share a shower more than once (correct me if I'm wrong), do your business then carry on.

Honestly, if it's a potential SHARP incident you're worried about, then you need to change your way of thinking. Adapt and overcome.

Response by SGT Anthony Bussing made May 23 at 2015 8:34 PM

SGT Anthony Bussing — Sat, 23 May 2015 20:34:17 -0400

probably the same way our forefathers carried on when blacks become full members of the military...just accepted it and moved on.

Response by SFC Michael Jackson, MBA made May 23 at 2015 8:37 PM

SFC Michael Jackson, MBA — Sat, 23 May 2015 20:37:44 -0400

you've been sharing showers with gays for years. gay soldiers are professional Soldiers like everyone else. just take your shower and move on. just like straights know whose gay. gay people know who straight, im sure.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2015 8:44 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 May 2015 20:44:06 -0400

Back in the old days, 60's, I was in basic training. I knew as much about gays as I did being a soldier. I walked in the latrine, after lights out, and there were two guys getting it on. They broke contact, like hosing down two dogs, and ran out of the latrine. I was the squad leader for this barracks, so I woke up the drill SGT. and told him about it. He in turn called the MP's. He made them wait outside the barracks while waiting for the MP's. This was in December, so the temp was in the 30's. We never saw them again. One thing that I have always wondered, is, how did each of them know each of them was gay. I mean you don't go around asking if they are gay, or ask if the other one wants to get it on. Just a thought. Personally I can take them or leave them. It's just when I think about what they do with each other is when I think YUK! So, I don't think about it until something like this thread comes up, or something else triggers that thought. Anyway, that is the only time I was around any gays, that I know of.

Response by SFC Joseph James made May 23 at 2015 8:49 PM

SFC Joseph James — Sat, 23 May 2015 20:49:23 -0400

Same as you would with anyone else ... eyes up, and get to business.

Response by SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA made May 23 at 2015 8:56 PM

SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA — Sat, 23 May 2015 20:56:24 -0400

You've been doing it for years, you just didn't think about it and didn't know it.
Now...its going to be the same.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2015 9:34 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 May 2015 21:34:46 -0400

3 Things:
1. Ignorance is bliss!

2. The logic is invalid that they won't find a person attractive because they are straight. I'm sure there are plenty of attractive lesbians in the military that have been checked out by straight dudes. (Ellen Page is still attractive to me)
With that logic, it would lead me to believe the solution to the issue is to have gay men share a latrine with straight women and lesbians share with straight men?

3. All in all it doesn't really matter..... But I do remember as a 17 yo kid sitting in a IET reception briefing over UCMJ and the JAG that gave the briefing got to talking about sexual activities that were punishable by UCMJ. The soldier setting right next to me raised his hand and asked with the most serious look on his face, "so, basically only missionary position from here on out?" To which the JAG answered "yes". The soldier mumbled "That's b@&$ $&@%" under his breath.
Not knowing the full extent of the freakiness of the dude next to me was good.

I'm a Dual Status Miltech in the ARNG. The showers I use after PT in the facility I work at is an open bay with 2 showers with 3 spickets a piece. On any given morning there are 5 or so soldiers showering in a 10 minute period.
There is a difference between showering with Adam Lambert vs Neil Patrick Harris vs Barney Frank.

And #4! I should probably just keep my mouth shut!

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made May 23 at 2015 9:54 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Sat, 23 May 2015 21:54:04 -0400

No problem. The same way you did before. They were always there before. Thank God the Military Grew Up and Grew a Pair and like always slightly ahead of the Civilian World. Served with 3 that I can think of off the top of my Head and one of them was my Best TS Control Operator. Now that I am retired I live on a block that has 3 Gay Male Couples and you couldn't ask for better neighbors.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made May 23 at 2015 9:57 PM

SSG Trevor S. — Sat, 23 May 2015 21:57:18 -0400

Quite honestly, you just get over yourself.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made May 23 at 2015 10:23 PM

SGM Matthew Quick — Sat, 23 May 2015 22:23:15 -0400

Wait, you're sharing showers with other Soldiers?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2015 10:23 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 May 2015 22:23:34 -0400

SFC Farrell, I'm guessing you and the rest of us have over the years and had no idea then, so why worry about it now ...

Response by SGT Lawrence Corser made May 23 at 2015 10:47 PM

SGT Lawrence Corser — Sat, 23 May 2015 22:47:23 -0400

I know a few gay guys who I have served with, they (gay people) arent always trying to try and bang everyone. If they are professional or just regular people then you should have nothing to fear, and why are you concerned, would you not feel that way if it was all other females in the shower with you?

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made May 23 at 2015 11:17 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sat, 23 May 2015 23:17:39 -0400

No worries here.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2015 11:20 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 May 2015 23:20:41 -0400

Don't focus on it. Get in and get out. You've showered with homosexuals before. People who prefer the same sex don't want every person who is of the same sex.

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made May 23 at 2015 11:23 PM

CMDCM Gene Treants — Sat, 23 May 2015 23:23:30 -0400

This topic reminds me of a movie line that never happened: "Frankly Scarlet, I don't give a damn." The entire homophobic idea of being raped in berthing or the showers is just so much garbage. Gay Soldiers, IMHO, are not looking to rape unsuspecting straight Soldiers, any more than they are looking for dates in the female BEQ.

We have had gay and lesbian Sailors, Soldiers, Airmen, and Marines in the Armed Forces since day one. Everyone needs to get it and move on. Now, lets tackle berthing and gender equality.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made May 23 at 2015 11:24 PM

SrA Edward Vong — Sat, 23 May 2015 23:24:46 -0400

It's gonna be an orgy!

Response by SFC Mark Merino made May 24 at 2015 12:26 AM

SFC Mark Merino — Sun, 24 May 2015 00:26:35 -0400

We are ordered to be cool with everyone being whatever they want with whomever they want sexually. If you feel uncomfortable showering with homosexuals,.....Tough! If you have problems showering with transgenders......Tough! If you choose to change your sex and you have a problem with it.....Tough. You WILL accept it! But there IS objection with men and women showering together? Who makes up these regulations?! If I can't object to being forced to shower with everything under the sun, why can't I shower with women? Can someone explain to me why gay service members can be naked yet completely trustworthy to look at my cute tush? Can someone explain to me why transgender service members can be naked yet completely trustworthy to look at my cute tush? Can someone explain to me why .................service members can be naked yet completely trustworthy to look at my cute tush? But somehow, when women and men are together we have a problem? Does anyone else see the lunacy in all this? I'm retired now. I have NOTHING but respect for all of you still serving in the armed forces. But I have to state that I am glad I don't have to deal with all the hypocrite crap, the touchy feely PC crap, the I'm ok you're ok crap, the individual rights over teamwork crap, etc. etc. Are troops immoral if they are heterosexual?

Response by SGT Anthony Rossi made May 24 at 2015 1:29 AM

SGT Anthony Rossi — Sun, 24 May 2015 01:29:45 -0400

If this continues its course the showers will be coed after a little while. It seems the new thing to do is just let anything go. I'm thankful that I left active duty before they started tearing the Army I love apart. Forgive me if I offend anyone. I just don't understand why I even should know your sexual preference.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2015 6:24 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 May 2015 06:24:52 -0400

SFC William Farrell with all respect SFC it shouldn't even be in your mind. Just use a shower or latrine and don't think about, don't even mention it. If you do and hold a level of prejudice with homosexuals your younger soldiers will know it too, which in turn will make a very difficult place to work for them and could only end in trouble for yourself on the back end.
That being said if someone is acting out of line during shower time, correct them.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2015 12:32 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 May 2015 12:32:35 -0400

You try really hard not to touch his penis. As long as you weren't doing that before, it shouldn't be too difficult.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made May 24 at 2015 12:37 PM

SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. — Sun, 24 May 2015 12:37:17 -0400

The thing is .. you probably already did!

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2015 3:37 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 May 2015 15:37:04 -0400

I'm sorry sir, but if you have to ask this question, you are part of the problem. I have no problem showering, working, and fighting along side a gay member of our military. Like someone pointed out, they don't want you just because they are gay. Once this way of thinking is ousted from leadership and everywhere else, the world will be better off.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made May 24 at 2015 5:20 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Sun, 24 May 2015 17:20:00 -0400

Realize that you already have. They were just required to lie about themselves in the past. They didn't hit on you then? They probably wont now.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2015 5:37 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 May 2015 17:37:05 -0400

I don't know. How would he rectify sharing a latrine with you? Trust me. I doubt you are something a gay soldier would be interested in. Don't flatter yourself.

Response by SPC David S. made May 24 at 2015 5:42 PM

SPC David S. — Sun, 24 May 2015 17:42:32 -0400

I wouldn't worry so much - last I heard it isn't contagious.

Response by LTC Donell Kelly made May 24 at 2015 5:56 PM

LTC Donell Kelly — Sun, 24 May 2015 17:56:07 -0400

You already HAVE shared a shower/latrine with a gay soldier. You didn't know it because those soldiers weren't hitting on you, didn't approach you, weren't trying to turn the entire male members of DOD into their own personal playgrounds.

Response by SSG Mark Ives made May 24 at 2015 7:11 PM

SSG Mark Ives — Sun, 24 May 2015 19:11:15 -0400

I'd served with several soldiers who were gay back in the 80's and neither were interested in those of us who were straight. They worked as hard and were as proficient as any other soldier.
They felt the same duty to defend our country as much as anyone who was straight, up to and including dieing for it. Since DADT came out of the closet, so to speak, I don't think gay soldiers would be any more interested in their heterosexual brothers and sisters since military conduct still applies.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2015 8:20 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 May 2015 20:20:14 -0400

Ok. Here is what "straight" men don't understand. Just because a man is gay DOES NOT automatically mean they find you attractive. They might not even be looking at you.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made May 24 at 2015 10:23 PM

LCpl Mark Lefler — Sun, 24 May 2015 22:23:17 -0400

going to let you in on a little secret, gay men don't care what you look like in a latrine or a shower, seriously, they don't.

Response by SGT Edward Perez made May 25 at 2015 12:13 AM

SGT Edward Perez — Mon, 25 May 2015 00:13:56 -0400

I don't know much about the subject. But i do have a question; if, you see a soldier that is under you and you see them down town dressed in dragg and down right acting the way they wish they were. Basically trying to find a date. What do you do? i ask cause in the later 90's our PA was found dressed in dragg hitting on an other soldier. No one said anything, but the medic's some, said that for platoon training he gave an order for every one to learn how to do a rectal exam. To my knowledge that never happened. Only thing done was that the PA got promoted and moved to the hospital to further his career, and a new PA came in. What do you do?

Response by SSG John Jensen made May 25 at 2015 1:50 AM

SSG John Jensen — Mon, 25 May 2015 01:50:29 -0400

if he compliments you - thank him, if he offers, turn him down, he's probably a lot nicer than you are.

Response by PO1 Rick Serviss made May 25 at 2015 3:07 AM

PO1 Rick Serviss — Mon, 25 May 2015 03:07:48 -0400

The only difference is you know.

Response by SSgt John Mccann made May 25 at 2015 3:58 AM

SSgt John Mccann — Mon, 25 May 2015 03:58:55 -0400

Skip the googling factor. 85% of Hiv affected people are gay men. What is wrong with this problem if you are in a war zone and have to swap blood with someone? Hospitals stateside can check your blood and you can even collect your blood and store it for future problems as long as it is going to be used quickly. Also you can use family members that I know I can trust. Putting 2 men in the barracks together is that not good if they are gay since you cannot share a room with a female if you are straight. Sounds a little unfair to me but I am no longer in the service.

Response by MSgt Landon Reynolds made May 25 at 2015 5:36 AM

MSgt Landon Reynolds — Mon, 25 May 2015 05:36:30 -0400

Hell, if I weren't retired, I'd claim that for shower purposes, I identify with the female sex, and demand that I could shower with the females.

Gee ... in Hillary Clinton's words, "What difference does it make?"

The damned military has become so 'politically correct' nowadays.

But we straight folks deserve to have the same rights as anyone else, and the powers that be are letting the few homosexual minorities dictate policy.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made May 25 at 2015 6:46 AM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Mon, 25 May 2015 06:46:44 -0400

For one I think it was a valid question. I think the down vote was uncalled for. Reading all the replies, nothing more to add, just be the professional you have always been.

Response by PO1 John Miller made May 25 at 2015 9:32 AM

PO1 John Miller — Mon, 25 May 2015 09:32:13 -0400

As the CO of my last ship said when he was giving training on the repel of DADT: "Get over yourself. You're not that good looking!" As spoken to a female LT (CAPT in Army speak) who wouldn't shut up about the possibility of her having a lesbian stateroom roommate.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made May 25 at 2015 10:24 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Mon, 25 May 2015 10:24:30 -0400

It did not concern me before DADT, it did not concern me after.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2015 12:26 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 May 2015 12:26:22 -0400

I have a friend she lead a very straight life, marriage, work, etc... I never knew. When she came out and changed from a male to a female partner, many friends disowned her. It was a difficult time for her. To me she is the same person now as before.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2015 12:34 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 May 2015 12:34:57 -0400

Who cares, if I am relieving myself in a slit trench in a patrol base I am sure if I am attractive or not is last thing on their mind.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2015 1:09 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 May 2015 13:09:31 -0400

Just take your shower as usual. Use latrine, hell even bunk with him as usual. From what I observed, gay members typically are pretty reserved and aren't making open, obvious advancements on the same genders until they sense reciprocating feelings.

Since the vast majority of the service members is stil straight (according to my observations over the years), they're highly unlikely to initiate anything with you beyond friendly.

Response by SPC Alejandro Martinez made May 25 at 2015 3:36 PM

SPC Alejandro Martinez — Mon, 25 May 2015 15:36:34 -0400

Rectify it or not, just don't look like you exercise for your own safety because that would make you look attractive or physically fit. I wonder what policemen, firemen, athletes, and other men whose jobs depend on their fitness think and how they address this issue?

Response by CPL Quinton Morton made May 25 at 2015 3:55 PM

CPL Quinton Morton — Mon, 25 May 2015 15:55:11 -0400

Easy the same way you did in basic. Get in get out. Remember whenever you were in the field and had so take showers they where right there with you all alone. Gays are not on the hunt for those who are straight.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2015 4:09 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 May 2015 16:09:38 -0400

Soldiers who have a different sexual preference have always been around. You never knew they were attracted to the same sex and just because the DADT is repealed doesn't mean people will start just coming out in droves. Best not even to think about it and it's an issue and you feel some one is sexual harassing you, you can always report sexual harassment.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2015 5:11 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 May 2015 17:11:54 -0400

Same as showering with every other same sex person. Chances are, you have showered with numerous homosexuals before. It's no big deal really. If a straight person looks at you in the shower, it means nothing. The minute a "known" homosexual does, people get all bent out of shape. Doesn't mean they want you or are checking you out. And if they are, tell them no thanks and take the compliment. Someone finds you attractive. Cause would it not be the same as showering with someone of the opposite sex that you have no attractions towards? It's just that someone had the cuts to come out and be happy with who they are, the fact that they are "known" that makes people uncomfortable. Like others have said, get in and get out of you are that uncomfortable with it. Or take your shower at a different time

Response by 1LT Kathleen Heisler made May 25 at 2015 6:06 PM

1LT Kathleen Heisler — Mon, 25 May 2015 18:06:04 -0400

what if it were the other way around? Does it even matter

Response by SSgt Stevan Auldridge made May 25 at 2015 6:21 PM

SSgt Stevan Auldridge — Mon, 25 May 2015 18:21:37 -0400

Step into the female showers and take a shower. If they complain tell them they are being sexist.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2015 7:47 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 May 2015 19:47:02 -0400

By just realizing you have been doing that your entire career & managed to not have a problem.

Response by SGT Richard H. made May 25 at 2015 7:52 PM

SGT Richard H. — Mon, 25 May 2015 19:52:29 -0400

Ok, so truth be told...I don't care if you're gay, straight, transgender, male, female, or the family pet. I don't want to shower with you. It's not a team sport. There. I said it. It's not even a sexuality thing for me. It's a privacy thing.

Response by SSG Gerhard S. made May 25 at 2015 8:38 PM

SSG Gerhard S. — Mon, 25 May 2015 20:38:57 -0400

You could simply revert back to "Don't ask, Don't tell"...

Response by PO2 Skip Kirkwood made May 25 at 2015 8:49 PM

PO2 Skip Kirkwood — Mon, 25 May 2015 20:49:51 -0400

Personally I never paid much attention to anybody that happened to be in the shower or the head at the same time I did.....

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2015 9:18 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 May 2015 21:18:33 -0400

If you were forced under field conditions to shower with females (2, 4, or 10 at the time) would you not be able to maintain professional bearing and rather go stinky weeks at a time?

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2015 10:49 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 May 2015 22:49:45 -0400

I appreciate the overall tone of this thread. Given the beatings we all took in basic to force us to treat all of our fellow service members equally regardless of race, religion, creed, etc, it astounds me that any intolerance at all still exists. I've been forced to trust a lot of people with my life that I wouldn't let drive my car; I've been forced to put my liberty in the hands of people who can't hold their liquor; I've bunked down with thieves and racists and people who never made it a secret that they didn't like me. And yes, I've knowingly shared the showers with lesbians.

Think about that for a moment: we trust the people we bunk with, shower with, stand watch with, to not hurt us. We trust that they don't have a reason or reason enough to hurt us. I've stripped down in front of people who weren't shy about getting into physical altercations at home (and didn't like me) but I trusted them to keep their hands to themselves because we're professionals. I'd never think to ask for special accommodations preemptively because I didn't want to give them the chance to prove themselves as adults. That's just silly.

But even without all of that, what surprises me the most about this thread is that NO ONE has brought up the fact that the most "homosexual" horseplay is acted out by apparently heterosexual service members. Let's all be real for a second. The military has a culture of cut-downs and grab-ass that communicates our level of camaraderie--the more ridiculous the insults, the "gayer" the fake pass, the more we like each other. No, we're not supposed to. Yes, that's how sexual harassment cases start. But for the most part, we wouldn't even THINK to act like this with people we didn't explicitly trust to understand that we respect them and DO NOT sexually objectify them. That is the whole point. But maybe THAT'S why some people are getting so up in arms about homosexuals--it "ruins" the sanctity of group bonding.

Make no mistake: homosexuals are the most uncomfortable about this. They resist the grab-assing and avoid lingering of any kind in the showers because they don't want to be in a position to get questioned for doing the things that everyone else takes for granted. Imagine having to be extra cautious and unnaturally courteous all day, every day, all through your service, just so that you always appear neutral or inoffensive to people you'd never look at twice anyway. Imagine how emotionally taxing that must be while knowing that some people will write you off anyway? Arguing that you're little better than an animal, sniffing any butt, any time, even if you happen to be in a monogamous relationship. Imagine how OFFENSIVE it is to hear, over and over, how uncomfortable HETEROSEXUALS are, sharing hygiene spaces with homosexuals, because of the chance of a stray glance, in the face of all that.

I appreciate your willingness to ask the question, SFC Farrell. For that, I've made sure not to waste your time by telling you to "just get over it" or derail the topic with sexism. What it all comes down to is mutual respect: trust that your fellows will not disrespect you and do not disrespect them, and you will find that your shower and latrine experience the same as ever.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2015 11:05 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 May 2015 23:05:10 -0400

Just like you do with everything else, professionalism. Be an adult and realize that they've been there all along.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2015 11:08 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 May 2015 23:08:08 -0400

Don't even worry about it. Chances are he is not interested in you.

Response by SFC Stephen Carden made May 25 at 2015 11:36 PM

SFC Stephen Carden — Mon, 25 May 2015 23:36:10 -0400

I am so over this argument. OK, if I am in the shower and you are gay, look all you want, just respect my straightness and don't touch. I work out. I like to hear a compliment every now and then that tells me that the gym is worth it. Personally, I think gender separation in the military is unnecessary anyway. All we have to do is establish a culture of maturity and respect that desexualizes unisex showers and restrooms, and we can save all kinds of money on bathroom fixtures. Get over your puritan-holdover issues and join the rest of the world in progressive thinking!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2015 1:16 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 May 2015 01:16:03 -0400

Not really any different than having females with us while in combat. First; all members of my team are my brother and sisters. Second; I will die for any of them. Third; shower sex scenes are not as common as the movies. Next question

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2015 5:44 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 May 2015 05:44:02 -0400

I say go the way of the fantasy military force portrayed in Starship Troopers: unisex latrines/showers. If being in the presence of someone nude of the sex one is attracted to, suddenly makes one lose all self-restraint or whatever, then such a person simply needs to grow up and be a mature adult.

In itself, seeing naked women doesn't magically turn me into a rapey, horny, sex-fiend or anything ridiculous like that. Heck, I'm kinda used to public displays of nudity from my youth (looking at you Berkeley/SF). Once you remove the stigma from it (most effectively by exposing people to it), then it becomes a non-issue that no one even thinks twice about.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2015 9:11 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 May 2015 09:11:28 -0400

I suspect even someone who is gay would be just as uncomfortable as a straight person would when they are showering with strangers or folks in the the unit. In most cases whether it is in training or in a combat zone they are most likely preoccupied with accomplishing their mission just as you are focused on accomplishing yours. Focus on getting clean and you should be just fine.

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made May 26 at 2015 9:33 AM

SSG Richard Reilly — Tue, 26 May 2015 09:33:55 -0400

I was going to say 'suck it up and drive on', but that could be taken wrong. Basically look at it this way. They are there and probably were before. Do I agree with that life style, no. But they serve too. I just say make the whole army coed. One bathroom, one shower & no privacy for anyone.

Response by SrA Johnathan Kropke made May 26 at 2015 11:40 AM

SrA Johnathan Kropke — Tue, 26 May 2015 11:40:41 -0400

In this sense it should not matter. In my BMT flight we had a guy who was openly bi and we did not care, we were in and out of showers so fast we didn't know there was water.

There is so much more to be concerned about that someone else's sexuality should not really matter to someone until they start to do things to other people.

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made May 26 at 2015 12:44 PM

MAJ Byron Oyler — Tue, 26 May 2015 12:44:36 -0400

I think the big disconnect here is the flaunting gays like Dan Savage and the everyday soldier that barely discusses it at work. I have yet to met a gay soldier that makes me feel uncomfortable and by and large the way gays are negatively interpreted are from media sources that show the extreme agenda. A large majority, 99%, just want to live their lives like everyone else, be accepted as humans and a contributing part of society. It is the extreme gays and extreme anti-gay that make it hard for the rest of us.

Response by SPC Mark Beard made May 26 at 2015 2:04 PM

SPC Mark Beard — Tue, 26 May 2015 14:04:20 -0400

no problem if you feel there is a problem always have around your neck soap on a rope and shower in your bathing trunks

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2015 2:33 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 May 2015 14:33:35 -0400

My best advice to you, SFC Farrell, is just to remember that regardless of their sexual orientation, they are just another guy. I have several friends who are gay, and some of them go out of their way to let you know it, but they are still just another guy. I can understand the discomfort of feeling their eyes on you with not clothes on, but at the same time, if their eyeballing you, you must be a pretty good-looking guy. Go confidence!

Response by PO2 Steve Bender made May 26 at 2015 3:13 PM

PO2 Steve Bender — Tue, 26 May 2015 15:13:03 -0400

You already have! Multiple times! Please tell me that you are not that ignorant and that this was just a joke question.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2015 3:41 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 May 2015 15:41:28 -0400

There is nothing to rectify. Just take a shower and carry on with your day. Gay or Straight we are all serving together. One Team One Fight

Response by CPT Alan W. made May 26 at 2015 4:03 PM

CPT Alan W. — Tue, 26 May 2015 16:03:51 -0400

As a gay man, here's the question from my perspective, "how would rectify in my mind showering with a guys who think I might be attracted to them, when I'm not (attracted to them)".

You've been showering with gay men for your entire career, the only difference is now you know it. Nothing else has changed.

Good question SFC Farrell!

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2015 4:14 PM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 May 2015 16:14:06 -0400

Along with what alot of other people have been saying... just because DADT is no not a thing... Who says you havent showered with them before? Is it just because they can be open about it now? Im confused as to how this is even a thing...

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made May 26 at 2015 4:16 PM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Tue, 26 May 2015 16:16:27 -0400

- I am not sexually attracted to all females so I doubt that a homosexual Soldier is attracted to all members of his/her same sex.
- Attraction does not equal action. If it does and the individuals are not consenting then that is a crime just as it would be were it members of the opposite sex.
- Staring/looking at another guy's junk in an adjacent urinal is a social faux pax regardless of sexual orientation. This does not stop some people from doing it.
- Unless you are in the same individual shower (if so, see bullet 2 above) then what is the problem. Do your business and get out. Combat deployed shower princesses (those who spend more than 5 minutes in the shower and use up all the hot water) should be dealt with regardless of their sexual orientation. This action is about being inconsiderate.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made May 26 at 2015 4:22 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Tue, 26 May 2015 16:22:46 -0400

William that is one funny question, that only and insecure man would ask. I does not bother me who looks at me while I am in the shower or at the urinal. I like women and find them more appealing, if some dude wants to look let him, I am proud of what nature gave me and will only share with women. Hmm I guess that makes me a ***** teaser. Now I understand the power that women have over me, LOL!

Response by MSG Brad Sand made May 26 at 2015 4:51 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Tue, 26 May 2015 16:51:51 -0400

The same as any other soldier. Concern yourself with where and what you are looking at and why. Don't worry about the other guy.

Response by Sgt Joe Tessari made May 26 at 2015 6:55 PM

Sgt Joe Tessari — Tue, 26 May 2015 18:55:24 -0400

Unit cohesion is paramount for maintaining good military order, having colleagues prance around the shower or restroom giggling and ogling platoon mates breaks up that cohesion. Add in cold weather operations and training, two gays in a fighting hole together, etc. There are enough distractions and problems for post adolescents to deal with as it is, they don't need to be subjects in a social experiment as well.

Response by Sgt Joe Tessari made May 26 at 2015 6:55 PM

Sgt Joe Tessari — Tue, 26 May 2015 18:55:55 -0400

Remember the USS Iowa. Gay couple having a love spat results in one hell of an explosion and dead sailors.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2015 7:46 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 May 2015 19:46:11 -0400

You always did, whether he was covertly or overtly fabulous. You ALWAYS did. :)

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2015 8:11 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 May 2015 20:11:44 -0400

What is there to rectify?

Why don't we just pull the trigger and go to uni-sex for everything....think of the money and space we could save.......hell when I was in IraQ we had unisex showers.....and yes sometimes there would be males and females in there at the same time.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2015 8:38 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 May 2015 20:38:56 -0400

This might sound crazy but they might not even find you attractive just as you don't find every woman attractive. But justice any other sex if you feel someone did something out of pocket then run it up the chain. That's my best response on this topic.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made May 26 at 2015 10:18 PM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Tue, 26 May 2015 22:18:24 -0400

You showered with him in basic....dont see a problem.

Response by MSgt Brian Welch made May 26 at 2015 10:21 PM

MSgt Brian Welch — Tue, 26 May 2015 22:21:05 -0400

SFC William Farrell I understand the different dynamic for the "straight guy" now that things are in the open. But only as far as mindset. Look, back during DADT times, you knew who, and I did too. Or at least we suspected we knew. So because it was on the hush-hush all was good? Or different? No it was the same. As I see it there were many times I showered with a gay guy unbeknownced to me and as luck would have it, we just showered. See, in my time in service, "unwanted advances" came between a man onto a woman, there was never a case of a gay guy making an advance on a straight guy in the shower or elsewhere. We really should focus on how to erraticate the guy on girl violence that exists before worrying about those that might be eye-balling us in the shower.

Response by TSgt Charles Hilton made May 27 at 2015 4:37 AM

TSgt Charles Hilton — Wed, 27 May 2015 04:37:10 -0400

He is wondering the same thing about you don't you think, or none at all. What makes you judge a naked man in the shower or latrine to be interested in you in the first place? Paranoia will destroy ya SFC Farrell. Live and Let LIVE! Shower or Foxhole... been with many and never knew the difference.. and didn't care.. Brothers in ARMS~!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 8:30 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 08:30:27 -0400

Does that person get the job done? Will they point their weapon toward the enemy and sling lead downrange when the time calls for it?

Response by SGT Mark Sullivan made May 27 at 2015 11:27 AM

SGT Mark Sullivan — Wed, 27 May 2015 11:27:17 -0400

There is no difference, gays have been in the military for a long time. All the way back to revolutionary times. They've just had to be in hiding until DADT was rescinded and they were allowed to be open. Just do what you have to do, get in, get out. Homosexuality is not contagious, they are not waiting for you to drop the bar of soap, Relax.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made May 27 at 2015 11:45 AM

CPT Ahmed Faried — Wed, 27 May 2015 11:45:03 -0400

If it bothers you shower after he is done or before. But I am sure he is capable of resisting your incredible charm. haha. Snark aside, remain professional. Both of you survived with DADT, both of you will survive without DADT.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 1:43 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 13:43:38 -0400

By remembering that you have seen as much peen as they have and knowing that you have been having to share a shower with people that may not share your same views when it comes to love interests. What did you do back then? There has not been a rise in homosexuals entering the service after the lifting of DADT. So, that should suggest that they have always been there and you have taken a shower while naked with a fella that was gay.

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made May 27 at 2015 1:43 PM

TSgt Kenneth Ellis — Wed, 27 May 2015 13:43:45 -0400

The only complaint I had was someone brushing his teeth in the shower. And then spitting.

Response by LTC Brian Croteau made May 27 at 2015 3:31 PM

LTC Brian Croteau — Wed, 27 May 2015 15:31:30 -0400

Ever meet someone who, after just a few minutes of interaction, you determine the person is an idiot and an oxygen-thief? But since you don't work in the same area, does it really matter? If the person in the shower next to you is gay, as long there isn't any unwanted touching or soliciting, why does it matter?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 4:16 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 16:16:26 -0400

There is no reason to believe that the level of professionalism of LGBT members will change just because DADT has been lifted. Its no different than dealing with a straight member. Professionalism will not change. If someone is acting inappropriate, regardless of orientation, then that will be dealt with in the manner it always has when the offender(s) have been straight. Until the issue actually comes up, there is nothing to be concerned about.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 5:07 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 17:07:37 -0400

I don't understand how this is a big deal. If you have a problem, be an adult and get over it.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 5:08 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 17:08:18 -0400

Realize that you're not really as hot as you think.

This may seem snarky, but just like not all heterosexual women think you're the "end-all/be-all" of male specimens ... there's no reason to believe that homosexual men will find you irresistible.

Wash your 4th POC and move out.

Response by Maj Mike Sciales made May 27 at 2015 5:21 PM

Maj Mike Sciales — Wed, 27 May 2015 17:21:25 -0400

Simple. You've showered and shaved with gay folks since you were a private. They just weren't out to you. Relax nothing changed since yesterday.

Response by SGT Darryl Allen made May 27 at 2015 9:10 PM

SGT Darryl Allen — Wed, 27 May 2015 21:10:42 -0400

You're operating on the presumption that, somehow, your knowledge of their sexual orientation makes them predatory, and therefore a danger to you.

If nobody made a move on you before DADT, then they won't after, either.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 10:09 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 22:09:45 -0400

Just do it. Chances are, that homosexual soldier isn't interested in you that way. Also, chances are you have showered with a homosexual soldier and never knew it.

Response by SGT James Sims made May 27 at 2015 11:22 PM

SGT James Sims — Wed, 27 May 2015 23:22:44 -0400

You should not act any different! SHARP is still in effect and each person should be respectful regardless of sexual orientation.

Response by COL Charles Williams made May 28 at 2015 12:58 AM

COL Charles Williams — Thu, 28 May 2015 00:58:26 -0400

I see no issue...

If you have an issue, I believe it is because you presume all gay Soldiers are (A) predators and (B) will be attracted to you... The reality is, in my limited view, gay Soldiers have been in the Army, as long as we have had an Army. Assuming/Presuming that taking a shower with a gay Soldier vs. a straight Soldier will cause problems is just not realistic. Unless, you believe all gay men would be attracted to you? That is crazy. That is like assuming all women are attracted to you... We wish... I don't see an issue... As, gay men and women have been around and in our midst since we have had men and women.

Response by SFC Bryan Reed made May 28 at 2015 3:17 AM

SFC Bryan Reed — Thu, 28 May 2015 03:17:53 -0400

Do you have a problem sharing a shower with a Black man? An Asian one? Mexican?
How about man that practices Christianity? Catholicism? Islam? Judaism?

Just like people have said, the difference is not with them, it is with you. Now you know.

A man's sexual orientation is no different than the color of his skin or his beliefs. If you cannot rectify that within yourself, you are prejudice, plain and simple. Our military has no room for prejudice Soldiers. If you can't handle that, get out.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2015 3:40 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 May 2015 03:40:23 -0400

Being fit for the military is a binary switch, obviously, being gay does not make a human being physically less strong, or have worse reflexes, or unable to fire a weapon, The sole rationalization offered for not wanting gays in the military is that it will undermine morale, people "won't feel at ease" , others won't fight to defend them as equals. The toleration of a prejudice that is in fact intolerable should be rooted out, the same as prejudices against blacks. The majority of gays I know in the military are discreet about any public behavior --more so than the heterosexuals that so often fraternize. I personally don't care. To each your own. Either way gay or straight I have my brothers and sisters in uniforms back. Not one more and not one less. One fight, one team.

Response by TSgt Daniel Wareham made May 28 at 2015 5:48 AM

TSgt Daniel Wareham — Thu, 28 May 2015 05:48:00 -0400

I repost this thought. To those who day "Get over it." And "Why do you think they want to have sex with you?" Why not just get rid of all separate showers totally? Why have showers based on gender? Male and female, gay and straight all shower together with no privacy for any one? After all there were plenty of women I knew in the service that I wouldn't have sex with on a bet or for pay. Why have separate living and sleeping areas at all? Everyone eat, sleep, and shower together in one area. After all our doesn't really matter at all if the person next to you in the shower or in the next bunk is interested in you or not does it?

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2015 7:04 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 May 2015 07:04:22 -0400

SFC William Farrell I believe the only logical solution is co-ed showers.

Some people here think that will bring some safety concerns but I disagree. There is nothing that a a straight male can do to a female that he can't do to another male.

This thread is going to go forever as people keep addressing the wrong topic.

Response by SGT Terry Ryan made May 28 at 2015 9:05 AM

SGT Terry Ryan — Thu, 28 May 2015 09:05:41 -0400

Don't think there is a problem here. Just think it will put a stop to a lot of grab- assing horse play.

Response by SFC Walt Littleton made May 28 at 2015 10:28 AM

SFC Walt Littleton — Thu, 28 May 2015 10:28:55 -0400

This is nothing new! This is lengthy but worth a read I think. Ask me anything and I will be glad to answer?

Old school here. Served through some tough years 70-80s and talk about change. These new issues are nothing compared to changes I saw and went through. I was in a 50 man bay while in AIT in 1974 and one of our guys would leave every Friday night and come back Sunday evening. When asked he would always say he was going home. I was in charge of a security platoon who like fire guard would walk through the barracks a few times a day on weekends to check for open unsecured wall lockers. Theft was a big problem in those days. They called it go to war or go to jail. We had many who should have went to jail. Anyway I was on duty and found this guys locker unlocked. I opened it up and almost fell down. His locker was full of women's evening wear. What we would call drag queen wear. People in his area knew he was a cross dresser and I didn't. Bottom line was out of the 50 people in the barracks room no one cared what he did during his off time.

I was an AIT Platoon Sergeant and led PT every morning at 0430. I was around 30 years old and had to perform at 18 year olds level. Anyway my favorite BAEK during push up drills was "Get your butts down, there are homosexuals out here and you don't know who they are". I'm pretty open minded and meant no harm. To me it was a joke. Well I had a very old school CSM. This guy was the best. If his troops were doing he was doing it. He walked the battalion area from wake up to after evening chow. Man was he tough but always fair. Infractions were were harsh and fairly dealt with. Best CSM I ever met or worked with.

After PT one day he called me over and as always I knew a lesson was coming. He explained that he didn't want to hear me using that phrase during PT anymore. It wasn't fair for the individual who was gay. WOW this coming out of this super crusty old school CSM mouth shocked me. He put the issue to bed, explained in detail why and I learned that my mentor also had forward thinking.

As an open minded NCO I felt I could deal with reality and not judge. Even though I didn't care if gays were in formation I allowed the norm to dictate what and how I related to my soldiers.

For you young folks out there here are a few Army transitions we had to endure. All negative stereotype male dominated transitions.

1. DRAFT- Many draft NCO's who had very negative attitudes towards the military. There motto was FTA (f$$& the Army). As a PFC it tough to stay positive. Eventually they transitioned out and life went on.

2. RACE- The Army decided we needed Race Relations to better understand each other's culture. We went through a few years of different types of this training. Each month we had to attend these lectures, seminars and lastly they came up with Rap Sessions. We would all black, white and all others and talk about our thoughts on race relations. This training was good however it was to intense and caused more issues than it really solved. Better served as a few classes in basic training.

3. WACS- There were no women in the Army. They were in the Women's Army Corps. They served as secretaries, nurses and headquarters only. I was in the service a year I think before I saw a WAC. Whip of a pen and now they are in the Army now. I was in a unique situation by being an NCO that received the first females in my MOS. Later the first NCO to receive females in combat support in the 101st. Finally the first AIT Platoon Sergeant to go back in time as a test that a male platoon sergeant can lead and all female platoon.

PERSONALLY- here are personal things I had to endure when I came in the service.

1. OLD 2 Story Wooden Barracks with no hear or air. Living in the same room with 50 guys day and night.

2. TOILETS- 10 toilets side by side with no walls. Taking a dump next to your buddy is not my idea of fun.

3. SHOWERS- Open showers with 20 guys taking a shower at one time and a line to get in.

4. BLANKET PARTIES- Yes we had them.

There were many more changes throughout my career. In all of the above cases the military has proven that it is the worlds true melting pot of cultures, religions and attitudes. Throughout generations it has proven that even though we are different doesn't mean we are not affective. It's a fact that when you have affective leadership it doesn't matter who or what you are. We are here to support each other for the common good of each other, the team all the way up to the pentagon and hopefully show the world that anyone regardless of race, religion or social structure can be put together, trained well and perform its objective without fail.

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Response by CH (MAJ) William Beaver made May 28 at 2015 10:27 AM

CH (MAJ) William Beaver — Thu, 28 May 2015 10:27:32 -0400

Did he say 'rectify?'

Response by SGT Chris Birkinbine made May 28 at 2015 1:22 PM

SGT Chris Birkinbine — Thu, 28 May 2015 13:22:21 -0400

A lot of the issues come from ignorance. Being gay does not make someone a rapist. It does not make someone a pervert. It does not mean they are attracted to all men or even that they are attracted to you.

Most people are not 100% comfortable showering with anyone else, but we have a culture that says it's ok to shower with people of the same sex, and thus you either adapt to it, or you hide your uncomfortableness about it. The same things apply to gay men and women.

A lot of these people with issues are so bent on the idea that some gay man is going to come into the shower and have a fantasy about them, or worse yet touch them in some manner.

Truth be told a lot of these people are hoping to make it through a shower without someone assaulting them for being gay, or hearing disparaging remarks from people they once considered friends and brothers. Most of the others just want to get clean.

Response by SPC David Sherman made May 28 at 2015 1:52 PM

SPC David Sherman — Thu, 28 May 2015 13:52:47 -0400

For Christians only, I am a Clinical Christian Counselor: Yes, a Doctorate. PhD... No, it does not stand for Phenomenal Dummy. I have to use spell-check. Just did. Any way! A funny thing happened in a discussion with Gawd and a bunch of us, not so unrighteous Sanhedrin and Pharisees of the Protestant faiths. (I was reared Roman Catholic) And during the discus, we came to the realization that the Pope is right. Sin is sin! Don't worry about the idiot and his or her identity crisis, which is what they are having, you got an outty so you are a male and need to hook up with the female of the species. The poor sucker is just confused. If the idiot makes a pass at you tell him to back off. If he does not report it to your friends and go directly through the chain of command according to the chain of command. I have not been in the service for over 40 years. Back then there would be a shower party with socks and bars of soap from what rumors I've heard. In God's eyes, the sin is not having a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ that condemns a person to hell, nothing else can separate us from the love of God. Jesus paid for all of our sins, past, present and future. Amen!

Response by SGT John Gray made May 28 at 2015 2:42 PM

SGT John Gray — Thu, 28 May 2015 14:42:57 -0400

By looking at yourself in a realistic light and not thinking that you're that attractive.

Response by PO1 Richard Schneider made May 28 at 2015 3:05 PM

PO1 Richard Schneider — Thu, 28 May 2015 15:05:07 -0400

What anyone does in private with "Slot A" or "Tab B" is really the something I never worried about.

How they handle themselves when things go wrong is what really matters. I'm more concerned about your ability to stand up to a burning helicopter than who you are attracted to.

Response by SSG Demetrius Davis made May 28 at 2015 4:52 PM

SSG Demetrius Davis — Thu, 28 May 2015 16:52:54 -0400

I don't think you have to rectify anything. Just because DADT has been repealed does not mean you have to change your views on gays at all. Just as gays have a right to be gay, those opposed to homosexuality have the right to be opposed. Just don't harass anyone about it. Let gays go about their business as you go about yours.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made May 28 at 2015 6:01 PM

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Thu, 28 May 2015 18:01:51 -0400

There are no "Gay Soldiers" or any other kind of soldier that we label. There are just "Soldiers!"

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2015 7:42 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 May 2015 19:42:04 -0400

When I was in the Navy we knew who was gay and we simply expected them to behave themselves or else. They are still soldiers/ sailors they have to abide by the UCMJ regarding harassment.

Response by PO2 Johnathan Kerns made May 28 at 2015 8:03 PM

PO2 Johnathan Kerns — Thu, 28 May 2015 20:03:28 -0400

Soap on a rope?

Response by CSM Christopher St. Cyr made May 28 at 2015 9:04 PM

CSM Christopher St. Cyr — Thu, 28 May 2015 21:04:59 -0400

SFC Farrell: One word - RETIRE. Your the guy that should be providing the guidance to junior NCOs on how to handle issues like this. If you can't deal with it yourself and provide that professional mentorship, get out. BTW, when you return to civilian life you will find there are gay people using the same public men's rest room at stadiums, restaurants and parks.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2015 9:50 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 May 2015 21:50:52 -0400

Id imagine if youre taking combat showers you've got alot more to worry about then getting checked out.

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2015 10:26 PM

LT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 May 2015 22:26:01 -0400

What is there to rectify? Just because someone is gay doesn't mean that they're shopping around in the shower or the latrine. If they're openly gay today, they've probably been gay for a while and never bothered you.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2015 11:03 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 May 2015 23:03:38 -0400

That gay guy was gay before DADT was repealed. So now it's in your mind that you know. I say don't flatter yourself. From what I've been told, gay guys don't want to be with straight guys.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2015 12:24 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 May 2015 00:24:55 -0400

I don't understand, you've been sharing latrines and showers with gays for years, they are just out of the closet now.

Response by PFC Aaron Sands made May 29 at 2015 2:47 AM

PFC Aaron Sands — Fri, 29 May 2015 02:47:49 -0400

I hate to tell you this but you've probably already taken showers with hundreds of gay soldiers that aren't "out of the closet". And gay men don't find every male on earth attractive. Just like straight men don't find every woman attractive.

Response by MSG Greg Kelly made May 29 at 2015 7:28 AM

MSG Greg Kelly — Fri, 29 May 2015 07:28:59 -0400

I am sitting back reading all this craziness for both sides and this why I waited so I could see what is said. When the surveys came out and I did my bit I wrote exactly this. This subject would undermine good order and discipline if don't ask don't tell was removed. And that is what is happening. It will take years for the military to recover from this and now the Transgender Issue is being thrown in works. There is what about 2 or 3 mil openly gay people in this country if that is true and who knows this is not even an issue. If the Military is 1% of the population gays are less than that. We have all showered with a gay person at some point that bothers me less than taking a dump in an open bay toilet area that is a personal moment hardest thing for me to deal with as an Infantryman. So now the gay issue is being forced on people in the military and they are being told you will except it or be punished it has been handled wrong from the start you cannot force anything on anyone as humans we do what comes natural we rebel. So on top of that Christians in the military are attacked because they are being accused of being gay haters very nasty cycle and it will take time to work itself out. A active Navy friend of mine told me since don't ask has been removed it has become crazy and gay sailors are bringing up others on charges because the gays feel this way or that. He cannot wait to retirement. An active Army friend of mine says the same thing so was removing don't ask a good thing. I do not know its one of those issues that time will tell.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2015 11:25 AM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 May 2015 11:25:46 -0400

What's the issue? There have always been gay servicemembers. As long as they conduct themselves in a military manner (which most do), and are proficient in their MOS, who cares what gender they happen to be attracted to?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2015 9:44 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 May 2015 21:44:46 -0400

What changes, is if the individual makes some form of advancement, that would not have otherwise potentially occurred due to the policy no longer being in place. Does this happen more frequently, potentially. If all that changes is the person judging, then why not just have unisex showers!? If your sexual preference isn't what's at question, all though we know it is in this matter, then why does it matter who I take a shower with? Just a thought...

Response by SSG Paul Setterholm made May 30 at 2015 8:28 AM

SSG Paul Setterholm — Sat, 30 May 2015 08:28:31 -0400

The national guard gets activated for a variety of things. I was on initial response team in case of riots at the state penn or federal penn. we received training from police,sort team(special operations reaction team) and others. I was activated to guard mt. Rushmore against terror attack on the 4th of July week. We were activated to search for murder victims. Floods,tornadoes,blizzards you name it.

Response by SGT John Wesley made May 30 at 2015 8:36 AM

SGT John Wesley — Sat, 30 May 2015 08:36:38 -0400

Well....

#1: You're retired, so if your sharing a shower with a gay person, it's by choice.

#2: We did it for years and never knew, what's truly different now?

Response by SPC Benjamin Vaillancourt made May 30 at 2015 12:25 PM

SPC Benjamin Vaillancourt — Sat, 30 May 2015 12:25:06 -0400

What is the difference? A soldier is a soldier. What their sexual preference may be is their business. Take a damn shower, drop your morning glory, CHARLIE MIKE.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2015 3:26 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 May 2015 03:26:26 -0400

Just reassure yourself your not that attractive and carry-on. Ask dumb questions get dumb answers.

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Jun 1 at 2015 1:56 PM

SPC David Hannaman — Mon, 01 Jun 2015 13:56:18 -0400

It's kind of already been said, but to say it a different way... having facilities separated by gender because it will "prevent people from being naked in front of people who might be attracted to them" is a myth. There were homosexuals in the military twenty years ago.

Might as well make the latrines co-ed.

Response by CW4 Kelvin Holt made Jun 5 at 2015 3:31 PM

CW4 Kelvin Holt — Fri, 05 Jun 2015 15:31:35 -0400

DADT was merely a DoD policy change, it probably has had little effect on the overall level of gays in the military. The gays were there, just as they have always been, it's just that many had to remain in the closet but they were still there, in your latrine, shaving & showering right beside you, seeing you in your towel or your underwear or even less.

Gays come from society, just like non-gays; I thought about that fact while dining during my '07-'09 OIF deployment after reading in the Stars & Stripes about the high number of sexual assaults in the military, I then took a look around the dining facility and though about how many gays there might be, and then how many rapists. I then asked myself, who would I rather share my meal with, a gay person who posed a threat to nothing except DoD policy or a rapist who posed a threat to many females?

BTW, yes I am well aware that a person could be gay and a rapist and that both men and women can be raped however in my initial scenario I had envisioned a straight male rapist and a male homosexual. My answer to the question was simple, I would rather share my table with a gay person than a rapist ANY day. Another person's sexual orientation had absolutely no impact on me other than my requirement to uphold DoD policy should that have ever become an issue and it didn't.

I'm straight by the way, in case anyone is wondering.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2015 3:31 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Jun 2015 15:31:52 -0400

Sometimes you have to be just as blunt as possible for people to comprehend:

THEY'RE HERE, THEY'RE QUEER, GET OVER IT!

Response by SFC Rollie Hubbard made Jun 14 at 2015 9:33 PM

SFC Rollie Hubbard — Sun, 14 Jun 2015 21:33:55 -0400

I would say that is a non issue.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2015 9:48 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Jun 2015 09:48:51 -0400

Well considering the fact you were already sharing showers with them, just not openly should put your mind at ease. If they didn't do anything before they won't now. Just like with straight people gay/lesbian Soldiers don't think every single person of the same gender they see is someone they want to be with.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2015 10:24 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Jun 2015 10:24:14 -0400

The fact is that you have probably always showered with gay people. It's not as if it was well hidden before. Even where it was well hidden, they were still gay, and you guys were sharing the latrine with them.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2015 12:28 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 00:28:33 -0400

The entire LGBTI issue is a very fragile subject still, or so I believe. However, I also work in military prisons, so, the issue isn't just one of educating soldiers, but it becomes an entirely new issue with inmates as well. However, I think it's something you need to let roll off your shoulders. You won't always know If that individual is gay. And, for all that it matters, he may also not be attracted to you either. Showering with other female soldiers for me has become a norm, and that shouldn't change just because someone can now be OPEN about who they are.

Response by SSG Justin McCarrell made Jun 17 at 2015 11:52 AM

SSG Justin McCarrell — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 11:52:46 -0400

It shouldn't matter. When homosexuals were not allowed to say whether they were gay or not nobody gave it a thought. In my experience most homosexuals can identify others like them. They generally don't tend to eyeball others that are straight because they know there isn't a possibility. It really is a non-issue. Take your shower and keep it moving. If you're worried about them looking at you then there might be deeper issues that need addressing. I don't see a concern even for the most flamboyant of them. They know they're in the military and know that not everyone is comfortable with being looked at in that way. Let it go and don't worry about it. I didn't worry about it when the military was DADT and if I were still in I wouldn't worry about it now. I know I am straight and I have no interest in men. We need to stop being so closed minded as a people and let go of certain insecurities.

Response by SCPO Lee Pradia made Jun 17 at 2015 11:57 AM

SCPO Lee Pradia — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 11:57:24 -0400

You probably showed with a gay person and never knew it, don't focus on it. Also, every gay man does not want to jump you bones!

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 17 at 2015 1:54 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 13:54:54 -0400

It's fine if you don't make eye contact!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2015 6:12 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 06:12:46 -0400

As a SFC I'm not sure you will ever have this problem. When was the last time you had to share a shower with anyone you didn't want to?

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Jun 19 at 2015 1:38 PM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 13:38:29 -0400

The fact is that you already have...

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2015 10:36 PM

1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Jun 2015 22:36:09 -0400

I don't mean to offend you, @SFC William Farrell but that is somewhat of a off the wall question. I mean, what is the worry? That someone who is gay is going to grope you in the shower? Living, working and fighting side by side with soldier who is "gay" means nothing to me except that he or she is a soldier.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2015 2:40 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Jun 2015 14:40:26 -0400

How do you rectify your mind? Well, you've probably already been sharing the shower with a gay soldier. So...there you go.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2015 8:47 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 08:47:03 -0400

I have showered, took lots of craps, slept close to, and shaved with many of my brothers in arms. I could care less who they were and what they did in their free time.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2015 9:18 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 09:18:47 -0400

You read the Report of the Comprehensive Review of the Issues Associated with a Repeal of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” (November 30, 2010). From p. 12-13:

"Privacy and Cohabitation. In the course of our review we heard from a very large number of Service members about their discomfort with sharing bathroom facilities or living quarters with those they know to be gay or lesbian. Some went so far to suggest that a repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell may even require separate bathroom and shower facilities for gay men and lesbians. We disagree, and recommend against separate facilities. Though many regard the very discussion of this topic as offensive, given the number of Service members who raised it, we are obliged to address it.

The creation of a third and possibly fourth category of bathroom facilities and living quarters, whether at bases or forward deployed areas, would be a logistical nightmare, expensive, and impossible to administer. And, even if it could be achieved and administered, separate facilities would, in our view, stigmatize gay and lesbian Service members in a manner reminiscent of “separate but equal” facilities for blacks prior to the 1960s. Accordingly, we recommend that the Department of Defense expressly prohibit berthing or billeting assignments or the designation of bathroom facilities based on sexual orientation. At the same time, commanders would retain the authority they currently have to alter berthing or billeting assignments or accommodate privacy concerns on an individualized, case-by-case basis, in the interests of morale, good order and discipline, and consistent with performance of mission. It should also be recognized that commanders already have the tools — from counseling, to non-judicial punishment, to UCMJ prosecution — to deal with misbehavior in either living quarters or showers, whether the person who engages in the misconduct is gay or straight.

Most concerns we heard about showers and bathrooms were based on stereotype — that gay men and lesbians will behave as predators in these situations, or that permitting homosexual and heterosexual people of the same sex to shower together is tantamount to allowing men and women to shower together. However, common sense tells us that a situation in which people of different anatomy shower together is different from a situation in which people of the same anatomy but different sexual orientations shower together. The former is uncommon and unacceptable to almost everyone in this country; the latter is a situation most in the military have already experienced. Indeed, the survey results indicate 50% of Service members recognize they have already had the experience of sharing bathroom facilities with someone they believed to be gay. This is also a situation resembling what now exists in hundreds of thousands of college dorms, college and high school gyms, professional sports locker rooms, police and fire stations, and athletic clubs around the nation. And, as one gay former Service member told us, to fit in, co-exist, and conform to social norms, gay men have learned to avoid making heterosexuals feel uncomfortable or threatened in these situations."

http://www.defense.gov/home/features/2010/0610_dadt/DADTReport_FINAL_20101130(secure-hires).pdf

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2015 9:29 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 09:29:43 -0400

You are allowed to have whatever opinion you want. Just because DADT is gone, doesn't mean you have to force yourself to like it and shower at the same time. You don't have to accept anything, just tolerate it. Homosexuals are people. So many people are afraid of "getting jumped in the shower by the gays" as if every homosexual is some sex craved maniac. They're people, just carry on normally, the only thing that's different is they can say three words "I am gay."

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Jun 26 at 2015 8:48 PM

LTC Bink Romanick — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 20:48:50 -0400

Be very careful. They say the most homophobic are actually closeted gays.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2015 8:49 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 20:49:51 -0400

I try not to concentrate on it.
As long as they keep to themselves, I could care less.

Response by LCpl Todd Houston made Jun 27 at 2015 3:51 AM

LCpl Todd Houston — Sat, 27 Jun 2015 03:51:56 -0400

SFC William Farrell - I see your point, I get it, I really do, but seriously....do you really believe that to be an issue? Are you afraid that if there were a gay soldier that came into the latrine that somehow their 'gayness' would rub off on you? Like if a pro baseball player walked in you would suddenly have a .308 batting average? Sir I don't want to belittle you, but the fact is more likely than not you have already showered or used the latrine with a gay soldier present. You know this. As a staff NCO, I would not have expected to hear such a question from you. You are a leader. What are your subordinate soldiers suppose to think and do if this is the example you provide. I would have expected this question from a private or PFC, but not a staff NCO. If you wrote that comment in jest, I thoroughly apologize and will just chalk it up to a poor joke. Fact is, I wouldn't care if someone screwed chickens so long as they were good at their job and would back me up in a firefight. Truth is, they would probably would be a lot more scared of you than you are of them.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2016 11:02 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 11:02:34 -0500

Don't worry about it. Just be sure not to drop the soap....

Response by SFC Vernon McNabb made Mar 9 at 2016 8:36 PM

SFC Vernon McNabb — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 20:36:01 -0500

I think what is not being said here, and in my mind is so obvious, "What makes you think he would be interested in you?"

Response by PO1 Gene Barfield made Mar 15 at 2016 3:54 PM

PO1 Gene Barfield — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:54:11 -0400

Try not to let your imagination take hold of you too much. If nobody has bothered you, in the shower or out, you might want to allow for the possibility that lgbt people know as much about behaving properly as anyone else does. And if someone HAS acted toward you inappropriately, you should take issue with that specific individual, and not with an entire group of people, most of whom you've probably never even met.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Mar 16 at 2016 10:42 PM

Capt Tom Brown — Wed, 16 Mar 2016 22:42:30 -0400

You may not even know another person is gay or not and if you do and feel that uncomfortable, you can always avoid staring at the person or coming in contact with the person. You might have cause for concern and complaint if the individual broke rules personal or professional conduct.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Mar 17 at 2016 11:24 AM

Capt Seid Waddell — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 11:24:52 -0400

If it makes you uncomfortable, shower with the women instead.

Response by SPC Christopher Shanahan made Mar 17 at 2016 11:29 AM

SPC Christopher Shanahan — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 11:29:27 -0400

Y'all are killing me with these posts about gay service members. As a gay veteran I showered with guys and guess how often I felt compelled to touch.... Never. Why? 1. No, contrary to popular belief not all gay guys want to see you naked! There is a 99.9% chance that I'll find you attractive. 2. To the .1% that I DO find attractive, I'll try real hard with my gay brain to resist the urge to reach out and get a feel. You're there to do a job. Also, why would a SFC be showering with his soldiers anyway? Sounds like someone has some latent homosexual tendencies. Glass houses man!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2016 12:15 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 12:15:59 -0400

Hate to break it to everyone. But if you ever showered at the gym, you've already had a gay guy check you out. You probably lived through that, and you'll live through this too.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2016 12:36 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 12:36:58 -0400

When DADT was repealed another soldier asked me, "What are you going to think if some gay dude is checking you out in the shower?" I thought about it for a second and replied "I guess that means I'm hot."

Response by CW4 Glen Nardin made Mar 17 at 2016 1:27 PM

CW4 Glen Nardin — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 13:27:53 -0400

My father told me that gay men were sharing tents in WWII. I have a feeling they shared barracks in the Roman conquest, too. Why do we consider this something completely new? Behavior of soldiers in the field is governed by UCMJ and punishable. It's no different now or during the "don't as ask don't tell" compromise era, either.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2016 1:34 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 13:34:10 -0400

Man Law still applies. you keep your eyes averted and he keeps his eyes averted.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2016 1:56 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 13:56:04 -0400

As a gay soldier, I can promise you when I first came to my unit, I was a whole lot more uncomfortable in the shower than anyone else was. I didn't want it to even APPEAR that I was looking at any other soldier in the shower (which mind you, is tough considering there was basically nowhere to look without there being a naked body.) This wasn't because I was sexually attracted to the other females in my unit, or because I couldn't be professional, it was because I was terrified of being wrongfully accused. Then we went to war together. Then they became my sisters. We went through hell together and developed a bond that I will cherish for the rest of my life. To this day these gals are my very closest friends. Women that I can count on in my time of need. To this day, I can honestly say that I have never felt an ounce of sexual attraction toward any one of them, and not because they aren't beautiful, intelligent, and amazing women, but because they are my sisters in arms, and I am a professional who respects them on a higher level than lust. I think what many don't understand is that it is the choice of the service member whether to come out to our unit, and oftentimes, in doing so, we risk everything. We risk running into those who say that they wouldn't risk their lives to help f*g under fire. (I'm sorry for the language but this has actually been said to my face, and I want you to understand how serious this is.) We risk the respect of our leaders and subordinates alike, and we risk being ostracized and rejected by those who we pray will have our backs when our lives are on the line. This being said, being able to openly love who we love, while also being a servicemember in United States Armed Forces is a new thing for all of us. We have a lot on the line. No matter how great you think your tush is, it's just not worth it.

Response by SGT Mary Gutreuter made Mar 17 at 2016 2:00 PM

SGT Mary Gutreuter — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 14:00:03 -0400

do what you did before you were told. as an old army broad I can attest that it makes no diff. willing to take a bullet for you, willing to take a bullet for me. just the info changed, not the action. ever hear of "not my type"?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2016 3:10 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 15:10:22 -0400

With all due respect, SFC William Farrell, the best place to start is to remember that sexuality does not determine humanity. That soldier is a human being too, and should not be treated or regarded any differently. Secondly, this one was kind of a sharp retort to me, when I had the same question before I came to a better understanding (I will try to be less harsh about it than they were with me); humble yourself. Odds are, that soldier holds no attraction to you, and therefore has no more interest in seeing you nude than you do for him. And if the case happens to arise that the soldier IS attracted to you, and it makes you uncomfortable, then simply avoid the situation entirely. Shower at home, or at another facility, and hold your bowels until they leave. This prevents any uncomfortable encounters, and still allows you to provide equal treatment to all soldiers, regardless of sexual orientation, nationality, color, creed or origin, as is your responsibility as a NCO. I hope this came across in a gentler fashion than it did with me, and that it helps you understand how others rectified the situation themselves.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2016 3:45 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 15:45:11 -0400

I think this is a valid question. Unfortunately too many people have become emotionally tied up in the issue. To those who say "don't flatter yourself" I would counter with this: Our practice of segregating latrines and showers by gender is not predicated on sexual attraction. It would not be socially acceptable for me to shower with women, regardless of whether I'm attracted to them or not. If what is required is simply professionalism and bearing, why not eliminate gender specific latrines, showers, and barracks altogether? There certainly would be a cost savings to be had. Somehow I doubt most people in this thread would support such a move, which is why their position is flawed.

My only experience with this situation was on a high school athletic team. Our gay teammate would typically shower after we finished and dressed in a separate area in the locker room. This was something he did on his own initiative. While not a perfect solution, its probably the most feasible in our current climate. In any case, I think most of these situations can be handled with respect and candid communication.

Response by ENS Matthew Fleming made Mar 17 at 2016 4:39 PM

ENS Matthew Fleming — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 16:39:44 -0400

You already showered with gay people in high school and middle school.

Response by SGT Tracey "Tra" Cooper-Harris made Mar 17 at 2016 6:24 PM

SGT Tracey "Tra" Cooper-Harris — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 18:24:27 -0400

I'm gay. Was gay before DADT and during DADT. I'm too busy enjoying the shower, getting clean and having some time in water, not checking out who's in the shower with me. You may have seen too many bad B reel, adult, or Not Rated movies... This scenario in your head is not real life.

Response by Will Jacobson made Mar 17 at 2016 8:19 PM

Will Jacobson — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 20:19:06 -0400

Treat it just as you did before. You don't check out other guys in the locker room right? Of course not. You use the space for what its intended for. The fact of the matter is that a gay servicemember treats the shower/latrine the same way you did before the repeal of DADT: a place to do what it's meant for and move on. There's a stigmatizing misconception that homosexuals are somehow deviant or always checking everyone out, which simply isn't the case. If they legitimately couldn't control themselves, they'd a) probably be seeking professional help, and b) they wouldn't have made it far in the service.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2016 8:57 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 20:57:31 -0400

What's a gay soldier? I know what a soldier is, but I'm pretty sure there's no badge on the ACU that denotes them as gay. Is there a special school one can go to, like being an airborne soldier?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2016 9:15 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 21:15:21 -0400

Who cares? Shower and leave. It's a simple thing. I'm pretty sure that showers were far more involved in the Roman and Spartan armies, and it didn't affect their effectiveness. Personally, I think that men are terrified of feeling the same vulnerability women have to deal with.

Response by CPL Jay Strickland made Mar 17 at 2016 9:30 PM

CPL Jay Strickland — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 21:30:17 -0400

You are an E-7, the only time you should have to use a community shower is when you are in the field or in a training environment and in those situations should not have enough time to think about it. However even if you were an E-1 who must use a community shower you need to get over it. If you can not you need to leave the service. This is just like when the Military integrated after WWII those who wish to remain need to integrate.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2016 9:57 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 21:57:52 -0400

Kind of a double standard isn't it? You have all these troops on here vouching for gay people to be taking showers with straight people but have qualms about males getting to shower with females? What sense does that make? Seriously would you want your daughter in the shower with a perverted troop just because its socially accepted? It's the same difference, no matter how you argue it. Male's in general are more perverted and less professional than females in the sexual sense, you think that stops ol joe pink socks from eye raping me in the shower? Would you ladies like private pile staring at you naked twice a day?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2016 10:30 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 22:30:48 -0400

Has he done anything to you in the past? There in lies your answer! Get over it. SFC William Farrell

Response by Sgt John Meister made Mar 17 at 2016 10:33 PM

Sgt John Meister — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 22:33:19 -0400

Should gay shoulders be allowed to wear the female uniform? Should a recruit that identifies as gender neutral be allowed to do female push ups for the pt qualify? Should a male airman/soldier/sailor that identifies with being female be allowed to wear their hair to female standards?

I have a strong opinion of this stuff. An opinion that I am sure is not "p.c.". An opinion that causes many on the left to spew hateful negative pejoratives at me. But I will not falter. As I will not bend on the oath I took at my time of entrance. The same oath you all took.

Socialism is wrong, we fought the Cold War over that. Homosexuality is wrong. What you do in your bedroom is no bodies business, but it doesn't give you special rights.

Time for us to stand up for what is right. There is no place for women in combat in my opinion. Not that they aren't capable, it is about all the guys who want to jump them instead of paying attention to their job.

I guess I am a dinosaur and an old bigot but, I know right from wrong and what works. This crap they are coming out with today, doesn't work!

Response by CMSgt Bill Ford made Mar 18 at 2016 2:00 AM

CMSgt Bill Ford — Fri, 18 Mar 2016 02:00:07 -0400

Wow, apparently NO ONE in the military is against Gays serving...who would have thought. This should have been changed 30 years ago...since everyone is and has been on-board.

Response by MSgt Wayne Morris made Mar 18 at 2016 8:46 AM

MSgt Wayne Morris — Fri, 18 Mar 2016 08:46:46 -0400

Dead issue that has been beat to death; move on and save the ammo for the
showering with Scott aka Susie issue on the horizon.

Response by PO2 Steven Patterson made Mar 18 at 2016 9:37 AM

PO2 Steven Patterson — Fri, 18 Mar 2016 09:37:31 -0400

If you're worried about a gay guy converting you into a gay guy, guess what? You're gay. Just own your sexuality.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2016 9:56 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Mar 2016 09:56:56 -0400

Since you're retired, shouldn't be a problem.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Mar 18 at 2016 10:49 AM

MSgt Michael Smith — Fri, 18 Mar 2016 10:49:26 -0400

You seem very naive. #1 You are not a gay man so you have absolutely no frame of reference for what sexual attraction feels, looks, or is in the mind of a gay man, yet you assume that a gay man in a latrine with you would automatically be sexually attracted to you because you are disrobed. WRONG. #2 Why should you have to rectify anything? If someone comes on to you inappropriately in a shower, it is a sexual assault and you report it. Period. If someone is staring at you or gawking, you report it. #3 Your discomfort is your problem, so you deal with it. Grow up.

Response by SSG Drew Cook made Mar 18 at 2016 1:54 PM

SSG Drew Cook — Fri, 18 Mar 2016 13:54:20 -0400

You rectify it by living with it. He or she was gay before any revised policy came down.

Response by Eric Harshberger made Mar 18 at 2016 2:39 PM

Eric Harshberger — Fri, 18 Mar 2016 14:39:55 -0400

The Uniform of humanity is bare skin.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2016 4:54 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 19 Mar 2016 04:54:47 -0400

I once heard the General Amos at a lecture. He said he didn't agree with it, but he, and the USMC will follow orders.

You don't have to like your orders, but you are sworn to follow your lawful orders. If there is a problem with that, then there are options.

Response by PO1 Stewart Montross made Mar 20 at 2016 11:42 AM

PO1 Stewart Montross — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 11:42:30 -0400

In my time when we found a meat gazer they usually fell up ladders.

Response by SSgt Bob Mobbs made Mar 20 at 2016 6:46 PM

SSgt Bob Mobbs — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 18:46:16 -0400

You shouldn't feel any different than you did before learning he was gay. He is still the same person.

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made Mar 21 at 2016 10:29 AM

SSG Richard Reilly — Mon, 21 Mar 2016 10:29:31 -0400

Close your eyes, lather, rinse, repeat?
Ok first I don't agree with homosexuality, biblically I believe it is wrong. However if they aren't sexually harassing me does it matter what sexual orientation they are? They are Soldiers. On that note maybe it's time to have co-ed showers...not for perv reasons but equal ground to eliminate the stigma.

Response by TSgt Daniel Wareham made Mar 24 at 2016 12:44 PM

TSgt Daniel Wareham — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 12:44:25 -0400

Might as well get rid of all segregated showers. Make them all unisex Ala "Stormship Troopers". Men and women showering together. That is the only fair answer.

Response by SPC Alejandro Martinez made Mar 24 at 2016 4:24 PM

SPC Alejandro Martinez — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 16:24:33 -0400

http://www.soldiers-of-misfortune.com/history/gay-warriors.htm

Homosexuality: Brotherhoods of gay warriors

Homosexuality: gay warriors in history

Response by CPT Edward Barr made Mar 24 at 2016 5:31 PM

CPT Edward Barr — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 17:31:13 -0400

You were already doing it. Now you know an extremely small percentage who were willing to "come out." So,
Change in gays in showers/latrines: None
Change in how many you now know: Minimal
Change in effects: Only what you create in your mind
They weren't getting a chub when showering with you before, they aren't going to suddenly start now.

Just be careful. Some of their gayness might wash off, and if it splashes on you or you walk in it, you might turn gay. (Ok, smart alec comment not needed, but at least I made myself laugh.....)

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2016 4:17 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 04:17:13 -0400

Let me answer that with a counter example. Have you ever once met a female who was in the service who you did not find attractive in the least? Either do to physical appearance, age, personality, or otherwise? What makes you so sure that any of these LGBTQ service members would care that they were showering with you?

Response by SSG James Arlington made Apr 5 at 2016 3:18 PM

SSG James Arlington — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 15:18:31 -0400

Get a butt plug!

Response by SSG Jeremy Kohlwes made Apr 22 at 2016 5:44 PM

SSG Jeremy Kohlwes — Fri, 22 Apr 2016 17:44:15 -0400

By doing exactly what you have been all along. It's not like there haven't been gay people in the military already.

Response by SPC David Hannaman made May 12 at 2016 1:53 PM

SPC David Hannaman — Thu, 12 May 2016 13:53:20 -0400

Same way you rectify showering with straight soldiers...

My personal tactic was to get up early, before everyone else and get some privacy. I never liked showering with someone of the same gender, regardless of what their sexual preference was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmBa2S_5QEU

Heartbreak Ridge - Warm Shower

Response by Sgt Eddie Keator made Jun 3 at 2016 3:45 PM

Sgt Eddie Keator — Fri, 03 Jun 2016 15:45:34 -0400

You don't need to. You've already showered with anyone who was gay since your first summer camp, jr/hi and high school showers, basic training, deployment, barrick life, etc....

If you need to rectify anything, perhaps giving up immature fears and paranoia for starters.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2016 2:59 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Jul 2016 02:59:07 -0400

You have every right to be concerned. It's completely tyrannical that a Military would cram safety down service members throats on literally a daily basis, and then turn around and ignore the health and safety concerns of homosexual behavior. If one genuinely cares for another they would NEVER condone anything that increases their risk for personal injury or safety. Hence the statement from the Hippocratic oath "I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure." Although their is a concerted effort to suppress data, there are a number of impartial websites that can be very helpful in understanding some of the damage this high risk behavior causes. With that said, you do not have to rectify anything in your mind. Treat everyone with respect and dignity regardless of the intolerance and bigotry they will bestow upon you. Additionally, become aware and get educated of the increased safety risks this poses on service members who are engaging in anal intercourse. Be thankful you will now be able to identify that risk better because DADT is repealed.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 2:20 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 14:20:42 -0500

well you've probably shared the same shower before only difference now its open get over it, as long as they do their job and you do yours should be no problem

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2017 8:32 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Apr 2017 08:32:24 -0400

Let's face it, after a long day of FTX, NO ONE is thinking about anything but getting clean quickly and hitting the hay. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble

Response by PFC Roger Goff made Apr 8 at 2017 1:49 PM

PFC Roger Goff — Sat, 08 Apr 2017 13:49:33 -0400

Well here is a topic that my opinions are sure to draw friendly fire on, so lock and load.

Political Correctness was developed to respond to this question. "What is wrong with Communism, and why isn't it growing?". It was started in the Weimark Republic at the Frankfurt School. The idea was to cause western civilization, and its freedom of speech and expression, to destroy itself from within. By the introduction of Political Correctness freedom of speech would be replaced with self policing, thought processed speech. We would all bite our collective tongues and utter only inoffensive psycho babble.

Well as you can see Political Correctness worked beyond their wildest dreams! And with the military being early adopters, those "Thought Police" have a fertile breeding ground for their idea to thrive in.

I have reference material on the origins of this PC disease available for the asking.

Time to reload for the next subject! What is the reasoning behind the absolute war that is being waged against Christianity in our services during recent decades? As every immorality that was once unacceptable in the armed services becomes business as usual. The spiritual foundation of this nation is being demonized! America was founded as a Christian nation. Built upon Christian principles. The majority of Americans identify as Christian. Why has the military become Christian unfriendly?

Now it's time to call for artillery support. We as a nation have fallen into a trap by being blind to the threat of Islam. Touted as one of the worlds great religions, Islam is a 16th century cult of barbaric madness. Their holy book, the Koran, teaches killing all infidels, all who who are not Muslim, if they will not convert or pay a tax. It condones slavery, child molestation, Women being beaten and being bought and sold as property, public stoning of adulterers, the cutting off of hands and feet for theft and throwing homosexuals off of buildings. Needless to say, Islam is not the "religion of peace" it is purported to be! The infiltration is in full effect. Now Sharia Law is being fought for by Muslims around the country. The greater their population becomes the more we hear of their barbarism. Honor killings, what's next?

We are on a slippery slope and losing ground in America and in our military. As a patriot I hate to watch the degradation that is occurring as you read this.

So where are we now?

Response by SGT Steve Hines-Saich B.S. M.S. Cybersecurity made Apr 13 at 2017 9:08 AM

SGT Steve Hines-Saich B.S. M.S. Cybersecurity — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 09:08:20 -0400

Why does it matter if he is gay or straight? He is there to shower.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Jul 21 at 2017 11:02 AM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:02:32 -0400

Hate to break it to you SFC - you have been sharing latrines and showering with them for years, Trust me, seeing your junk is not that big a deal for them, and should not be for you. And believe this over anything else, they KNOW who is or is not straight.

Response by SPC David Willis made Dec 27 at 2017 4:47 PM

SPC David Willis — Wed, 27 Dec 2017 16:47:59 -0500

I used to think like that as well until my old room mate in Iraq came out after he left service. I realized he hadn't tried to hit on me, or stick anything where it didn't belong and more importantly that he was still a great soldier and a good friend changed my irrational fear of being quartered with gay dudes.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2017 6:44 AM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 06:44:49 -0500

Most showers I encounter these days are single person stalls so it should not be an issue. But even in the multi-person shower, what makes you think you are his type and he is the least bit attracted to you?

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Apr 24 at 2018 9:42 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Tue, 24 Apr 2018 21:42:36 -0400

The same way you took showers in Basic, AIT or OSUT- you don't ask, you don't ogle- take your shower and drive on.

Response by PVT Mark Zehner made Oct 23 at 2019 9:13 PM

PVT Mark Zehner — Wed, 23 Oct 2019 21:13:33 -0400

He's a soldier first and foremost!