What advice would you give to a new NCO who has been having difficulties managing soldiers who have an attitude?

2022-03-11T19:59:48-05:00

I have a question for my fellow NCOs on how they would handle this situation, I have a couple of soldiers who have been giving me a attitude ever since I got to my new unit I recently just got my e5, I’m a pretty nice guy some would say to nice. Now my 2 soldiers continued to give me a attitude after I got my e5, they wouldn’t always listen, give me attitude, and not do what I tell them to, I always been nice to them, never yelled at them I helped them out outside of the military on many occasions because I care about them as well, soldier care is my top priority as a NCO, but the attitude still continued, I took them somewhere private so we could talk about it, I was relatively calm, they immediately started giving me a attitude and yelled on a couple occasions and kept interrupting me. Telling me that it’s not true about them having a attitude and and they think I’m always joking so that’s why they don’t listen, even tho i don’t really joke around and I’ve been told people know when I’m being serious I think they just said that as a more so defense measure, they continued to yell and give me a attitude so I made them go to parade rest, which is something I don’t like to do but they gave me no choice in the matter because they wouldn’t let me talk, I had to get my squad leader involved to help me out, they calmed down and my squad leader back me up got the point across that you can’t give a NCO a attitude. I’m a pretty nice guy and I don’t like the fact that it got heated and I made them go to parade rest to make the stop yelling I know that as a NCO you have to use disciplinary measures sometimes, im not used to doing that tho because of my personality, i am new to this and I know I am learning and always will be learning on how to be a leader a sergeant my question is how would you guys would’ve handled it and if you have any advice?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2022 10:37 AM

2022-03-12T10:37:05-05:00

Well....some times you have to put foot to ass. Hard. What is going to make this bad for you is that you have set the standard of too much niceness and too little control (as evident that you needed your SL to come in and back you up/save you).

Here is what you will need to do. It's going to be going outside your comfort zone, but it has to be done. You sit down and you give your Soldiers a counseling (should have been done already) about your firm expectations from them....to include repercussions if those expectations are not met....and what they can expect from you. Then....if they fail to meet those expectations...you apply/recommend the corrective actions/training you said you would.

You need to realize that your job is not to be popular...it's not to be liked...your job is to ensure your Soldiers get the job done right and to get them home in one piece. It's great to be popular and liked all the time but you see where that thought has gotten you? You will also need to find a seasoned NCO to have as a mentor to help mold and guide you.

Now, here is what I would have done. Considering their disrespectful manner, I would assign the corrective training of writing a 750 word essay (in pen, in print, no errors of ANY kind) discussing what Article 91 is, what repercussions a Soldier can face via UCMJ and/or Courts Martial...and how their disrespect negatively affects the morale and cohesion of the section. You give them a decent time to meet this evolution. Say...one week. You put that corrective training plan in writing in a counseling form, setting the standards and expectations of the essay. And now, you have the baseline establishment of the paper trail. Then, if they come back to you without having met the parameters, you then give them another counseling stating that they have violated Article 92 and assign another essay that covers both Articles and is now 1500 words and two weeks to do it. If they fail to meet that, you then will recommend they receive UCMJ for violation of Articles 91 and 92. Yes, I understand that this would be quite the jump....but it sends the message that you are no longer messing around. Again, this is what I would have done.

Yes, the road ahead of you is going to be bumpy and hard when trying to reestablish control. Gonna be lots of hurt feelings. Lots of counseling sessions I foresee. But you need to stick to your guns.

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Mar 12 at 2022 11:39 AM

2022-03-12T11:39:42-05:00

As long as you have the support of the chain of command you have many tools with which to deal with this situation. Helping them and being civil should not have to change. Use the tools at your disposal. Free time is a soldiers most precious treasure. Extra duty is a soldiers most feared punishment. Document their insubordination and specific consequences if the insubordination does not cease in a counseling session. Make sure your CoC supports the punishment before you present. Never make an empty threat. Remember you have been given a mission and that mission supersedes your need to be liked. You can’t consequent them for not killing you but you can train them to do the job they are assigned.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2022 5:09 PM

2022-03-12T17:09:41-05:00

In my opinion, time to pin them down with the boot heal of the 1SG.

Talking rarely works. Yea, I suppose the talking step has to be taken, but don't spend too much time spinning your wheels there.

Time to bring out the counseling statements. Find examples on line, and get input from your PSG, 1SL, and PL about your situation.

Then when the time comes you have a nice pretty bow on top of those counseling statements and then the Commander can start handing out Unpaid days at Drill (U's), and taking rank.

Then as well, the Commander can hold up promotions to E2-E4, and stop all NCO board packets for those E4's with those counseling statements.

****************
I know it can be hard for the go lucky introvert to push back like that, but you have to ask yourself, do you want to continue working under those conditions and still be responsible for their work performance?

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Mar 12 at 2022 6:36 PM

2022-03-12T18:36:58-05:00

Listen this is fairly common whether it be Guard, Active or Reserve. Soldiers have tested NCOs since the beginning of our Army. Read and study the NCOCreed. Meaning as you read take notes, your notes should question the areas you do not fully understand as a stand alone component, or how different components relate to one another. Research the policies and associated regulations so that you are able to refer back to them when you begin to apply the traits identified in dealing with your Soldiers.

Once you have the process figured out speak to your boss and get his or her buy in for you plan of action.

This is a long, slow yet deliberate process. While getting them straight you begin to train yourself and seeking a mentorship relationship with your NCOIC.

It would be nice if you could yell at ease and it would all fall in line, well it will, but not a lasting solution.

You need to build a foundation for a Team before they and you can be a Team.

No one is not professional than I. I am a Non-Commissioned Officer.

Response by SFC Kelly Fuerhoff made Mar 12 at 2022 8:21 PM

2022-03-12T20:21:26-05:00

You need to put their asses in check. They're disrespecting you - so write them up for disrespecting a NCO. Counsel them on it every time it happens but make sure you do the follow up part on the counseling.

You better get used to using any corrective training necessary. You're a NCO - they aren't you peers. If you let people walk over you, they'll never take you seriously.

My first soldier was a cocky, disrespectful little shit. He thought he knew everything (as most 19 year olds do). Anytime he disrespected me I counseled him - and on top of his monthly counselings where I would address things. He was just constantly a problem. I definitely didn't recommend him to get promoted but for some reason when I was on R&R they sent him to the promotion board and he passed. I'm not sure how. His counseling folder was pretty thick with negative counselings and his monthly counselings.

He was this kid who I don't think like women in charge of him. If he couldn't sweet talk a woman he immediately thought she was a "bitch."

At this point in my career I'm a lot saltier than I was back then but you just can't let people walk over you. If you do, they'll never take you seriously.

Response by SGT Charles Whited made Mar 12 at 2022 11:19 PM

2022-03-12T23:19:08-05:00

I would consel them of their duties and expectations or expect corrective measures up to and including UCMJ action.
It is human nature to be liked. Do not let it blur the line of your duties and oath to be the example. Your integrity and values will gain their respect. Trust follows and is core to the mission at hand.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Mar 13 at 2022 3:14 AM

2022-03-13T03:14:20-04:00

Stop worrying about being a nice guy. Do your job and expect them to do theirs and help them along the way. That's the job.

It's pretty typical for new rank to attract push back and challenges. Just pick your battles and make sure you are in the clear when you stand firm on an issue which is what seems to already be happening. Stop questioning yourself or worrying about the perception of being a nice guy. Just take care of your people and the mission. Everything else will shake out one way or another.

Response by SPC James Neidig made Mar 13 at 2022 3:19 AM

2022-03-13T03:19:47-04:00

New NCO’S have a Tendency too Hard or too Nice , until they grow into the Job, The Best NCO’S are Right in the Middle, Order’s Must be Obeyed when Given, In Garrison and Especially in the Field, If They Don’t Obey Your Orders Write Them up and Keep Doing It Until They Get Their Head Out Of Their BUTT or Get a UCMJ!

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2022 2:24 PM

2022-03-13T14:24:36-04:00

Don’t give off an aura of just being a nice guy and bending if things get heated. It’s true taking care of your people is important. I’ve always said people first, mission always. But that doesn’t mean being run over. Present yourself as a strong individual with confidence. Your troops feed on your own attitude that you project. Don’t be afraid to raise your voice or be a hard ass if needed. Be there if they need advice and try to guide them accordingly. Not everyone has the same style of leadership and you will find what works for you. In the end you want the respect of your troops. And I have no doubt you can find that balance.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2022 5:18 PM

2022-03-13T17:18:58-04:00

Would tell you just mind your own business .. why pocket watch that ain’t P

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2022 1:53 AM

2022-03-14T01:53:46-04:00

Somebody deleted my first comment that ain’t P. My advice is stop pocketing watch SGT that ain’t P