NCO's Arrested for Dereliction of duty

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 17:57:14 -0500

CQ's and Staff Duties were detained by the Military Police
for Dereliction of duty while on 24 hour duty, the
directive came from the CG. I personally think this is outstanding, too many
times when I am on Staff Duty I have walked through the barracks and seen  "LOGGED"
as the action taken on the duty log, stair wells are filthy, bathrooms
destroyed, CQ's were asleep, NCO's were not present. I think it’s time that we
start destroying those not holding the standard up of the NCO. I fully support
the CG's decision and hope this spreads Army wide. What are your thoughts?
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Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2014 5:58 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 17:58:57 -0500

good, i hope it makes the necessary heads turn, or roll

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2014 5:59 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 17:59:11 -0500

Interesting to hear, did your CG establish a post policy letter stating this?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2014 6:10 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 18:10:33 -0500

1SG and SSG,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

  I honestly do not know every detail of the situation, but I am glad that there
is someone out there taking action. Too many times I have seen zebra’s (jack
ass with stripes) slip through the cracks. If something like this helps the
problem of the toxic NCO then I personally am all for it. My entire male family
history is all NCO's from the U.S. Army, so even though I’m new I have seen it
fall apart over the years. I am ready for the army of discipline and respect to
return not the army of technicality’s and loop holes to remain. I think we need
to go back to the times when the CSM comes walking down the side walk the
soldiers snap to parade rest till told to “carry on”, smoking and joking with
senior NCO’s needs to stop, and the attention to detail and dereliction of duty
needs to be smashed instantly.  <o:p></o:p>

Response by LTC Jason Bartlett made Jan 26 at 2014 12:25 AM

LTC Jason Bartlett — Sun, 26 Jan 2014 00:25:29 -0500

I think the Chain of Command (CSMs) should be held accountable as well. I remember when I pulled SDNCO (back in my enlisted days) my CSM briefed me before he left and when he arrived in the morning read my log (and we had to back brief him) ect. This was pretty much the same at every unit I was in. If my 1594 was jacked up we had to rewrite it.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2014 3:23 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jan 2014 03:23:37 -0500

The fact that actions or lack of them is a reflection of that NCO and his motivation. Not only that but the safety and welfare of barracks dwellers are overlooked.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2014 7:47 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 07:47:25 -0500

This dilemma of "LOGGED" was something that hits close to home and it isn't just in the NCO corps, its Army-wide. Here we have both CQ NCO and CQ Runner posted up in the barracks as well as SDO and SDNCO inside the barracks as well (yes it seems like a bit over kill sometimes). There was an incident on a weekend night a few months back involving a soldier that was ambushed in his room and assaulted by 5 other soldiers. The MPs came, the paramedics came, everybody came. The next day when the CSM came to pull the logs from the SDO all that was written for all the action taking place were 8 log entries...... 8! "Action Taken"? = "LOGGED".. this was by a commissioned officer. It sparked a powder-keg of CSM rage which has now resulted in all SDOs being pre-duty briefed on what's expected of them while on duty. You can bet that "Action Taken" is now filled out with paragraphs of specifics. Duty logs ARE important because IF something happens, CID will come collecting to find out what actions were taken by those "in charge". To touch on some other points, CQ and Staff Duty may not be exciting duties but they should be taken seriously by all soldiers. The way you conduct yourself as the SDO/SDNCO or CQ sets the tone for conduct in the barracks. If you take your watch seriously you could prevent a lot of mishaps. Every time I'm on shift (we do have curfews here in Korea) I take the time to ensure that soldiers coming back in from a night out drinking are getting back to their room safely (and not with unwanted guests). I take hourly physical security walks, not only does it help pass the time but you may actual help prevent theft and/or assaults from untended doors. Too often people on duty want to be everybody's friend and not "bother" anyone. I'm not johnny-hero but I let it be known that I'm there to do a job and I'm not there to be anyone's friend. Doesn't mean you have to be a bully, I make all my corrections in a calm manner, people should be able to relax in their "home", but don't allow non-sense to occur under your watch.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jan 29 at 2014 8:45 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 08:45:54 -0500

Hopefully their SOP's and Policy Letters actually outlined duties and responsibilites or this may get ugly real quickly... Can't disobey an order you were never given after all...

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2014 11:00 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 11:00:06 -0500

MP's can "Arrest" a Soldier for uniform violations if the command wanted.  It's just for show, but sometimes it works. As the MP Duty officer for Fort Hood my guys Detained a Soldier who was drunk in his room and missed formation.  We walked him in front of the company formation on the way to the Patrol Car. The deal was his PSG met us at the MP station and signed for him right away.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2014 11:49 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 11:49:15 -0500

This seems to be a problem with NCOPD and OPD if the information and training isn't properly disseminated then how do we expect our soldiers to know how its supposed to be done.

Response by 1SG Steve Stone made Jan 29 at 2014 6:14 PM

1SG Steve Stone — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 18:14:31 -0500

My question is, why has it gotten to the point where a general officer has to create a policy letter like this? Where are the Senior NCO's? 1SG's, CSM's, and PSG's? It is there duty to enforce and inspect their junior Soldiers, whether it's during normal duty hours or after duty. Personally, I would be embarrassed as a Senior NCO if this was happening in my unit. I'm pretty sure there are a few lines in the NCO Creed that apply also!!

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jan 30 at 2014 5:09 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 05:09:18 -0500

Confinement should be the answer for every mistake made, minor or severe. ***i need to add I was being sarcastic. I am sorry if I caused any confusion. Edited***

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Jan 30 at 2014 2:32 PM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 14:32:14 -0500

Wow, I like this story. Sends the right message. Would like to know more details on what happened, etc.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Jan 30 at 2014 2:59 PM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 14:59:08 -0500

Dereliction of Duty is punishable by UCMJ, as we all should know well. But I would like to know more about this situation before deciding whether arresting them was the right thing to do, although that's what my instincts say. Where can we find out more about all the circumstances surrounding this?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2014 3:36 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 15:36:07 -0500

where did this happen at?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2014 3:56 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 15:56:34 -0500

The guys who were on staff duty that night admitted that they hadnt done any security checks. They told on themselves and knew they werent doing the right thing. Got what they deserved in my opinion. If some creeper just walked into the barracks and started harrassing soldiers because you failed to check his id, its on the cq. Were supposed to be protecting our own, keeping the soldiers safe and he failed to do that. He let that whole building of soldiers down

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2014 10:12 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 22:12:24 -0500

Ok this to me I see this as a told was of Military Police assets, first thing it's the responsibility of the senior NCO that runs the DA6 to have checks and balances to ensure that CQ's and Staff Duties are preforming their duty properly and to standards.

I'm getting ready to retire and have pulled my time on all kinds of duty desk and I had different senior NCO have different standards for what they want done on duty. I had one CSM that he would say he was gone for the night and then come back in two or three hours later and check your log or he had the S-3 NCO come in and check. And if you were not on track then you were going to pull duty again the next night. So my point let the MP's do there job and let Senior NCO do theirs.

Response by SFC Joe Ping made Jan 31 at 2014 12:30 PM

SFC Joe Ping — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 12:30:16 -0500

I think this is great, My last assignment was Division Staff Duty NCO at Ft Riley, I cannot tell you how many times I walked into a barracks and found it filthy and the CQ sitting there playing his XBOX or Playstation. The BN Duty NCO would be there and was made aware that this better be corrected upon my return. It was like they did not give a damn and neither did the CQ it was a inconvienance that I was there checking them out. They need to be held accountable for their lack of self responsibility. To me that is the biggest problem I seen before I retired, was the lack of self responsiblity in soldiers.

Response by SSG Christopher Horton made Jan 31 at 2014 1:55 PM

SSG Christopher Horton — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 13:55:40 -0500

I can remember pulling CQ / SD Runner, then eventually pulling CQ and SDNCO. We always got a briefing before we pulled our shift and what needed to be done during our tour of duty. Sometimes, we got lucky and had extra duty do some of the daily chores (i.e. vacuuming, sweep, mop and buff floors, etc...). We always got it done, even if it meant staying a few extra minutes after we were supposed to be relieved.

I think being 'arrested' is a bit severe, but if it gets the message across that there are things that MUST be done while pulling CQ/SDNCO and Runner. Make an example out of the few so the many will comply.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2014 11:39 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 23:39:58 -0500

The rules and regulations to SD/CQ are outlined very clearly. Furthermore, all this duties have a binder with memorandums stating what is expected of you, what you cant and can do, etc. Electronics are pretty much a no go everywhere!!!! If you do your job the right way and fill your paperwork the right way you should be fine, it isn't too hard to do the right thing.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Feb 1 at 2014 8:02 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sat, 01 Feb 2014 08:02:58 -0500

Shouldn't arresting a leader for dereliction of duty be reserved for an offense that puts others in harm or possible harm or something along the lines of a felony offense? The punishment needs to fit the crime.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Feb 1 at 2014 8:03 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sat, 01 Feb 2014 08:03:02 -0500

Response by SSgt Dennis Clark made Feb 1 at 2014 10:41 PM

SSgt Dennis Clark — Sat, 01 Feb 2014 22:41:48 -0500

It's the new obama faggot army, what do you expect?????!!!!!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2014 2:23 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Feb 2014 02:23:59 -0500

When I think of being arrested; I'm thinking more like abusing your spouse, DUI, DWI, or something way more severe, With that being said CQ/STAFF duty is serious but not arrest serious. policies are created but our job to enforce policy. Guess what arresting someone like that is not enforcement; but example setting. I love the uniform and what it represents but sometimes we get it wrong.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Feb 2 at 2014 9:28 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sun, 02 Feb 2014 21:28:43 -0500

The problem with detaining NCOs (and Commissioned Officers) is that once they are detained, they are processed and picked up by a SFC (E7) or higher with in two hours. They will not sit in some major facility for hour for less than a felony offense. That is the law enforcement side. I am not saying don't detain leader's for dereliction of duty but the priority to respond by MPs will be low if other calls are pending. I would like to know from the OP on the detainment of these leaders will happen and the process he thinks they will undergo after being apprehended for less than a felony offense.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2014 10:33 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Feb 2014 22:33:28 -0500

So what is the whole story???

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2014 10:36 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Feb 2014 22:36:32 -0500

Hey BTW where were the BDE and DIV runners when all this was happening>>>???

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2014 7:48 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Feb 2014 07:48:25 -0500

Please update the damn CQ and Staff duty book. And do your job, and thats to all NCOs. An officer shouldnt have to get in NCO BUSINESS!!!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2014 11:48 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Feb 2014 11:48:43 -0500

Getting arrested by the MPs for falling asleep on SD/CQ is
horse S&*%$!!!!

As the SDNCO the welfare of your Soldiers is first if I am
not mistaken. If you force a Soldier to stay awake for 24 hours without sleep
and then he has a 20 minute drive back to his residence and has an accident,
who is at fault? Who completed the risk assessment for that drive?

I let my Soldiers catch a few so that way they are alert
when the CSM/CMD enter the building as well as for their drive to their home.
As far as the NCO sleeping on duty, I do not while I am on duty but the same
goes for them. As long as someone is at the desk and all task are complete i.e
hallways clean, bathrooms clean etc then I have no problem with the NCO
sleeping. If I go in and no one is awake and the barracks look like crap then I
have a worthwhile discussion with the young SGT or SSG.

Love me or hate me, but when it comes to the safety of my
Soldiers they will always come first.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2014 12:15 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Feb 2014 12:15:27 -0500

I agree with CSM, it must show how this unit's lack of discipline if you had to get 4ID CO involved with the unit's business. I personally am embarrassed because I'm stationed here in Fort Carson. All this has done is make our duty even harder then it use to be. THE NCO's that messed up, or don't really give a damn should be made examples out of. We need the NCO corps to get back to leading our troops and taking responsibility for there actions. I find way to many NCO's that do not belong in there leadership position.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2014 11:00 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 11:00:03 -0500

I don't know about being arrested for it. I do know that the COC should have been alerted by the CG and expected to handle the situation. A dereliction of duty counseling for an NCO is pretty much career ending as long as the rater and senior rater write the NCOER accordingly. If you have that much of an issue in your unit with NCO's not doing the right thing because they believe none will check them then I think maybe the NCO channel needs to have a few NCOPDs to maybe show them what they expect of them. In the unit I am currently with, we are expected to conduct leader's checks daily on the barracks we have Soldiers living in. This also helps to keep the CQ and staff duty on there toes because they never know who is going to walk in when. I do however appreciate the involvement the CG has in the unit this happened in. He is trying to ensure his Soldiers are doing what's right at all times.

Response by SFC Joe Ping made Feb 4 at 2014 11:11 AM

SFC Joe Ping — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 11:11:43 -0500

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2014 1:14 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 13:14:52 -0500

What is the point of arresting them? They get turned right back over to the unit in a few hours. So why not skip this unnecessary step and merely use UCMJ? Which is what they will be charged with anyways. What happened to keeping things at unit level. Also, unless I am mistaken all units; usually Battalion, and higher also have an OIC.

Response by MSG Cameron Davis made Feb 4 at 2014 1:40 PM

MSG Cameron Davis — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 13:40:04 -0500

Duty is but one of the seven Army Values. CQs and Staff duty should be held accountable for their actions and subsequently their inactions. I think however, as an NCO corps, the CQ or staff duty shouldn't even have time to say something before another "passer-by" NCO addresses it. NCOs need to understand that we are NCOs 24hrs a day.

Response by SSG Ralph Watkins made Feb 4 at 2014 4:20 PM

SSG Ralph Watkins — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 16:20:14 -0500

Whatever happened to having the company commander file Article 15 proceedings against the CQ/CQR & if need be send them to the CCF (Brig). That's been the standard for how many years? Yes, the general has the authority to go after the personnel for infractions. Making it into a criminal matter is going overboard. It circumvents the command structure below the general though. The company, battalion, or brigade commanders will not have the learning opportunity since the general to override what their positions require them to do. If the officers in that unit aren't maintaining discipline & punishing those who are derelict, then it should reflect in their OER or receipt of a letter of reprimand, or even relief of duty.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Feb 5 at 2014 8:46 AM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Wed, 05 Feb 2014 08:46:47 -0500

I've actually read all the posts ... I've read the following excuses - outdated books, policies, no briefing, poor briefing, etc, etc ... When I was on active duty the Army was really up on these things. Maybe too much because it had a way of keeping Officers, NCOs and Soldiers from having to make any decisions. Those that broke policy, even if it was a better decision, were punished. The example I remember was an NCO in another company broke down a flat tire (in the field, he had been a mechanic in civilian life), patched it and remounted it. His soldiers were happy to have been shown something they considered needed were bragging on him. He ended up getting a written reprimand for 'working above his echelon of maintenance'. That's the message that his troops got given. My commander would have given him a letter of commendation. My comment is UCMJ is written with the idea the the unit commander - CO Cdr, BN Cdr, so on; so on - are responsible for their soldiers. If the NCOs aren't doing their work they ought to be embarrassed, but the commander 'allowed' it to happen.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2014 2:14 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Apr 2014 02:14:42 -0400

If I am right there are examples of the 1594 at the SD desk and at CQ, I can almost bet that no one takes the time to look at them so see how to properly fill one out. Everyone that had done a duty that requires them to fill out the log thinks they are doing it right, some might be right most are not. I have worked in corrections and had to fill out logs with actual actions performed. Fool me once shame on me, fool me twice shame on you (duty NCO) take the time to follow the example. Then this would not be a problem. Should not be A CSM'S job NCO'S should know how to fill out the log, SD NCO'S should definitely know how to fill one out if they don't then they need to go back and be re trained.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 20 at 2015 2:37 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sat, 20 Jun 2015 14:37:15 -0400

I was Staff Duty Officer and noticed soldiers were outside in the hot Texas night. I asked if a party was going on. They replied they couldn't sleep because the AC was broken. In the morning I informed the BN CO, he replied with a frustrated WHAT THE EFF SHOULD I DO ABOUT IT. A couple days later I see my BN CO taking the division commander on a tour of the barracks. The lesson I learned is you can make a difference by just doing your duties.