SFC Private RallyPoint Member8445544<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Have a fellow NCO that received a GOMAR but the events behind it are weird. They used an old counseling from a previous unit for a barracks infraction, and then a new counseling flagging the SM. However the new counseling had no recommendations in the plan of action, was never closed out, and the SM was place on restriction. The only person that know anything about what was going on was the commander and the first sergeant was never consulted about it. Does this make sense and what should the SM do they tried to rebuttal but it didn’t help.What can an NCO do after unsuccessfully rebutting a GOMAR that was based on old and incomplete counselings?2023-08-29T00:05:26-04:00SFC Private RallyPoint Member8445544<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Have a fellow NCO that received a GOMAR but the events behind it are weird. They used an old counseling from a previous unit for a barracks infraction, and then a new counseling flagging the SM. However the new counseling had no recommendations in the plan of action, was never closed out, and the SM was place on restriction. The only person that know anything about what was going on was the commander and the first sergeant was never consulted about it. Does this make sense and what should the SM do they tried to rebuttal but it didn’t help.What can an NCO do after unsuccessfully rebutting a GOMAR that was based on old and incomplete counselings?2023-08-29T00:05:26-04:002023-08-29T00:05:26-04:00SGM Mikel Dawson8445662<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>No "bunkhouse lawyer". Just wondering how old was the old counseling from the previous unit? Is it the last one? Are the two counseling sessions related in any way? I think if it was me, I would consult JAG due to the fact the new counseling form is not fully complete, so how can it be used? Too many questions here (for me) to make any kind of real judgement.Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Aug 29 at 2023 3:02 AM2023-08-29T03:02:29-04:002023-08-29T03:02:29-04:00CSM Darieus ZaGara8445910<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>GOs do not Willy Molly issue GOMARs. You refer to old and new unit, if under the same GO it is likely that the person was moved as part of rehab. In any case there is only conjecture here. If the CO and 1SG had more info that would suffice. They have obviously offered nothing to the contrary. Sounds less than above board on the Soldiers side.Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Aug 29 at 2023 8:52 AM2023-08-29T08:52:20-04:002023-08-29T08:52:20-04:00CSM William Everroad8445960<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><a class="dark-link bold-link" role="profile-hover" data-qtip-container="body" data-id="124444" data-source-page-controller="question_response_contents" href="/profiles/124444-17e-electronic-warfare-specialist-eighth-army-usarpac">SFC Private RallyPoint Member</a>, the only one who can tell you their logic behind the GOMAR is the GO who issued it. You could consult IG or JAG, but they will tell you the same thing. A GO does not have to talk to anyone (they should though) before issuing a GOMAR. Obviously someone in the NCOs previous chain of command had an issue with something. <br /><br />What you have detailed is a pretty shady way of doing business. Most senior leaders would have caught this on its way up and made sure the counselings were very clear. But without know what the "infraction" was, or who the GO was and their personal "red lines", I can't say what the best course of action would be.<br /><br />Honestly, sit down with the CMD's CSM (after consulting with the BDE and BN CSMs) to see if you can learn more about it.Response by CSM William Everroad made Aug 29 at 2023 9:29 AM2023-08-29T09:29:50-04:002023-08-29T09:29:50-04:00COL Randall C.8446642<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Agree with the advice from the "Senior Enlisted Trifecta" (<a class="dark-link bold-link" role="profile-hover" data-qtip-container="body" data-id="559988" data-source-page-controller="question_response_contents" href="/profiles/559988-00z-ad-command-sergeant-majorad">CSM Darieus ZaGara</a>, <a class="dark-link bold-link" role="profile-hover" data-qtip-container="body" data-id="1598702" data-source-page-controller="question_response_contents" href="/profiles/1598702-csm-william-everroad">CSM William Everroad</a>, and <a class="dark-link bold-link" role="profile-hover" data-qtip-container="body" data-id="392324" data-source-page-controller="question_response_contents" href="/profiles/392324-sgm-mikel-dawson">SGM Mikel Dawson</a>) especially the "something doesn't sound right" type of comments.<br /><br />A few things to add-<br /><br />Whatever was presented to the GO was sufficient to convince them to write the GOMOR. These situations are usually the "this individual has extremely poor decision making capability" or "their character is not conducive to the values of the Army" type of situations (sexual harassments, recklessness that could or did endanger others, theft/fraud/etc.) or having it tacked onto a UCMJ conviction.<br /><br />It won't be written for a minor barracks infraction or being flagged for administrative reasons such as being overweight. You mentioned the NCO was placed on restriction, so that indicates they either were given it from UCMJ or an Article 15 as a commander cannot restrict a Soldier otherwise. Either supports that it was something more serious.<br /><br />Specific to what you described above - Is this what your fellow NCO told you or are these facts known to you because you're familiar with the situation? Coming from at this from the other side, the vast majority of times when Snuffy tells others about how they were wronged by leadership, they almost always leave out some key details. I'm not saying that's what happened, but if it was "told to you" rather than "known to you", I would be reluctant to believe it without confirming.<br /><br />You mentioned their doing a rebuttal to the GOMOR so I'll assume they consulted with a JAG in writing/reviewing it (that's basic 101 for GOMORs). If not, then they should absolutely consult with legal assistance on base and tell them not to leave out any of the good, bad, or ugly about the situation. <br /><br />Was the GOMOR filed in the Soldier's OPMF or was it local? If local, then it as the heavy slap on the wrist it is intended to be in order to get the NCO's attention as it will likely have no future impact if they become a model NCO, other than being a badge of shame for getting one (until they PCS or three years pass). If it was filed in the OPMF, that's a different situation...<br /><br />If the GOMOR is going to be in the OPMF, that a huge black mark that will forever be seen by every promotion board, Branch mangers, specialty assignments manager, etc. and may trigger things other adverse things like QMP. If that's the case then the NCO should do a couple of things:<br /><br />1) Head directly to legal assistance (again?) and discuss filing a request for transfer to the restricted portion of the OMPF or an appeal of the GOMOR with the Department of the Army Suitability Evaluation Board (DASEB) at the first opportunity (details in AR 600-37, especially chapters 6 & 7) as well as any next steps. Even a snowball's chance in summer should be entertained if it went to the OPMF and the NCO is planning on staying in the Army.<br /><br />2) If there is sufficient evidence that was never discussed with the issuing GO before (new information? was never revealed as part of the rebuttal?), the NCO can work with legal to craft the best possible "would you please reconsider" letter to the GO to see if they would support a DASEB appeal or (if there is sufficient evidence that it was unwarranted), the GO can ask the DASEB to remove it or transfer it.<br /><br />IF there isn't clear proof that can be provided to the DASEB (it will have to be "clear and convincing evidence" that the GO was wrong) or the GO who issued it can't be brought on-board to recommend a change in the disposition (transfer to restricted portion of OPMF, write letter of support to the Soldier's appeal, etc.) then the most important thing the NCO should do is start working on their backup plan for life after the military. While the GOMOR could theoretically never come back to bite them in the backside, the better assumption is that it would.<br />----------------------------------------------<br />* AR 600-37 (Unfavorable Information) - <a target="_blank" href="https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/ARN30763-AR_600-37-000-WEB-1.pdf">https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/ARN30763-AR_600-37-000-WEB-1.pdf</a> <div class="pta-link-card answers-template-image type-default">
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Response by COL Randall C. made Aug 29 at 2023 5:12 PM2023-08-29T17:12:41-04:002023-08-29T17:12:41-04:002023-08-29T00:05:26-04:00