My son is Army NG & in AIT. He failed the run by 5 sec. An NCO said he was going to recommend that he be chaptered. Can this be prevented?

2017-08-16T13:01:29-04:00

Response by SFC Kelly Fuerhoff made Aug 16 at 2017 1:04 PM

2017-08-16T13:04:59-04:00

Usually they get two chances to take the APFT - is this his second consecutive failure? If yes - then no there's nothing to be done. He's getting chaptered. If it's his first, he should get another chance to take it.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2017 1:30 PM

2017-08-16T13:30:18-04:00

Yes it can. He only needs to pass the run. It shouldn't be too hard to shave off five seconds. There is a reason why we have standards. When he will get to his unit it will only get harder.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2017 1:35 PM

2017-08-16T13:35:50-04:00

If it's two consecutive, then they must initiate the chapter, however; I've seen it plenty of times when I was in Korea, that they started the chapter, and within the time it took them to push it up, the soldier completed like 2-3 APFT's, and passed so they stopped the chapter process. It depends on your command if they want to take the speedy route, or not. Best of luck.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Aug 16 at 2017 3:49 PM

2017-08-16T15:49:39-04:00

My youngest Son was chaptered out of Basic/OSUT for PT failure, it can happen. The standards there are lower than at their assignment and they will not bend the standard even if it was 1 second. If they proceed with the chapter and he wasn't already recycled then he can attempt to join again at a minimum 6 months later with a waiver. I would say a year later at the earliest because he will have to pass a PT test for the recruiters at the AD standard. This is all depending on if the recruiters want to do the work, is your son worth all that extra effort when they have others that can make the runs etc this will also depend upon if ANY waivers are available. Your son needs to really become a PT ace or he will only run into issues should he make it into a unit. He is not alone from what I am hearing this is happening across the board will many future Soldiers. My Son now is what I call a PT Nazi and he runs like the wind, does 65 Pushups and 70 sit-ups, he is killing me on weekends. Good luck to your son.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2017 5:10 PM

2017-08-16T17:10:50-04:00

Technically they could start the paperwork but more than likely it's a scare tactic, especially if it's just AIT. At my unit anytime someone fails 2 APFTs the CO will sit them down and tell them that they are going to be chaptered out and sure enough that causes them suddenly get very motivated about PT and they pass. I wouldn't worry about it.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2017 8:07 PM

2017-08-16T20:07:33-04:00

Ma'am, as a current AIT XO, I will say that no commander worth his/her salt would want to chapter a Soldier who is only failing the run by five seconds. If the Soldier fails two record APFTs, chapter paperwork is initiated. However, we continue to work with the Soldier to pass the APFT. For example, my company conducts remedial PT six days per week. If the Soldier passes the APFT, the flag is lifted and the chapter process completely eliminated. The AIT company commander has the discretion to keep a Soldier seven days after the scheduled graduation to provide the Soldier an additional opportunity to pass the APFT, and the battalion commander can grant up to 2 weeks post graduation to pass the APFT. If the Soldier fails to pass after that time frame, the Soldier could potentially be a "restart." (Please reference TRADOC 350-6, Paragraph 5-22 for further information.) Additionally, the National Guard and Reserves are generally hurting for personnel, so the Guard/Reserve Liaisons will fight for their Soldiers to graduate if at all possible. One final caveat would be that patterns of misconduct (e.g., disrespect towards NCOs, failure to report to formation, etc.) in conjunction with less-than-stellar PT abilities may be the rationale for a zealous chapter attempt.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Aug 16 at 2017 8:16 PM

2017-08-16T20:16:49-04:00

Becky Furniss Ma'am,
THANK YOU for addressing this issue here instead of calling his chain of command. Those types of calls almost always end bad for the Recruit/ young Soldier. Calling his chain of command would equate to an embarrassing situation for all involved. It would be like your mother calling your boss because you complained that your boss told you to improve on coming into work on time or you might be fired. Don't take that as me saying that you should never call his chain of command. You deserve information about your Soldier. This situation is better handled as you are doing it though.
The short answer is that the NCO in question is trying to motivate your son. Yes, your son could get kicked out for a PT failure. There is a regulation that provides for this type of chapter/ discharge. The most likely outcome is for your son to work harder, meet standards, and move on with nothing broken but his ego.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Aug 16 at 2017 10:32 PM

2017-08-16T22:32:21-04:00

Yes- this can be prevented. Pass the run. He can do it.

Response by Becky Furniss made Aug 17 at 2017 1:52 AM

2017-08-17T01:52:22-04:00

I just wanted to thank you all for your help. I was able to relay a good amount of information to my son. Unfortunatly I did not know that he may have an injury. He assures me it is just normal pain from the run but a Sgt saw him tonight, noticed something wasn't right and brought up medical. Apparently it is bad enough that the Sgt thought he was " on profile". Now he is being ordered to medical. He knows that this is it for him because he is ARNG not active army. Well, thanks again for all the help.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Aug 17 at 2017 8:52 AM

2017-08-17T08:52:47-04:00

The straight answer is YES.
Will he be separated on a Entry Level Separation(ELS,)? That depends.....on a lot.
NG brings a whole extra level to it, because its $$$ and time.
Another consideration, if they keep him as a hold over, insert him into another training company 3,9, 20 weeks back in the training time line, and he fails the APFT again...will he still be eligible for an ELS which is only an options for those in service 180 days or less. It would be better that he is separated with an ELS then other options.

Finally, militarily service is not for everyone . The physical fitness standards are set fairly low..even lower for those in AIT. If your son is struggling to pass those low standards he really is set up for failure for his future in the NG even if he passes now.......UNLESS the failure is out of character. If he was a fit young man in HS, track, football, baseball, Motocross racer, soccer player whet ever, and this failure is due to a injury, illness ect..... then his "getting by" now is not a big deal ...
If he can look inward and say "that was not me, I've always been faster, stronger than that, what happened?" can find an answer he can address in a week or two, he could contact his unit at home, plead his case to stay, speak with the training chain of command, plead his case to them to stay..and if convincing, likely will stay.
If either chain of command do not see the same potential in the near term for him to pass as your son does, its likely he will be separated.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2017 4:20 PM

2017-08-17T16:20:50-04:00

I smell an injury that he is trying to power through.
Did your son give any indication that this was the case, Becky Furniss ?
A significant injury would be reason for a chapter as well, and makes more sense than just throwing him in remedial PT until he reduces his run time by 5 seconds.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2017 11:03 PM

2017-10-12T23:03:26-04:00

He needs to pass his next pt test