My son can't decide between Navy or AF, but he has a goal of being in special forces. What advice would you give him?

Jim Ryan — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 11:46:31 -0500

He has spoken casually to recruiters from the Air Force and Navy, including a family member who recently retired from the Navy.
ASVAB score: 92.
He is in outstanding physical shape and has been told he has a good chance at making the cut (if he doesn't, which branch would be better?).
The PJ's are fewer and, perhaps more elite?
Any advice on how to help him make a decision between the two?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2016 12:12 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 12:12:38 -0500

Does he want to shoot someone in the face or save lives?

Response by SN Greg Wright made Nov 12 at 2016 12:15 PM

SN Greg Wright — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 12:15:23 -0500

PJ's are definitely elite, but they're not Tier 1 like Delta or DEVGRU (SEAL Team 6), I don't think. Anyway, as for what he should do, the big thing I'd look at are career opportunities, obviously, but then, things like, he'll probably get a much more diverse set of options in terms of where he can be stationed in the Navy. In other words, he's a lot more likely to see more of the world in the Navy.

Response by TSgt William Meyer made Nov 12 at 2016 12:37 PM

TSgt William Meyer — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 12:37:30 -0500

The AF also has Tac-P's who go along with other special ops units and call in air strikes, also there are combat weathermen who get special ops training as well. Just depends on what he wants to do.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2016 12:37 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 12:37:41 -0500

I would ask whta does he want or think he will be doing as a PJ?
PJ's are a SOF asset that conduct SAR personnel rescue and recovery, not a DA (Dirct Action on contact Force).
If he wishes to do DA stuff and in the Airforce in needs to look into TACP, as they work Directly with ODA teams and other SOF elements that can and do Direct action missions.

You also have SOWT (Special Operations Weather Technician) this are Special weather operators assigned to ODA teams to support them in combat and team operations. I had the pleasure to meet and work with several on my SOF deployment in Afghanistan, and one ODA team the SOWT on the team was the acting JTAC and was one of the two team Snipers/overwatch.

The other is CCT's (Combat Control Teams) they work directly with Army and Navy SOF elements to provide command and control and direct air traffic in remote, and often hostile,areas.

He needs to decide what type of work he wan'ts to do not just be a SOF guy, to be elite.

Navy has several options
SEAL no explanation on that, training is long and hard.

Navy also has EOD, and they are Special operations capable and support and work directly with all military SOF units. They are a direct action combat unit.

Then you have Navy AIRR Navy Aviation Rescue Swimmers. They do water SAR like PJ's, definitely not going to do any Direct Action stuff at all.

You have SWCC but I leave that there they are boat guy's that conduct insertion and extraction of SEAL's into areas, They are not Direct action but are combat support, meaning they stay on small boats

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2016 12:45 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 12:45:51 -0500

needs to bring that score up, even though need to look at spec ops vs special forces it all depends on what he is interested in, army spec ops include ca, psyops, rangers, sf, airborne, from experience navy seals are the toughest, followed by sf and rangers, physical shape doesn't cut it mental endurance does, just my thoughts

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2016 1:24 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 13:24:01 -0500

Something you should consider is what about joining a reserve unit that can do most of the same thing.

I know guys who join infantry units in the AC or the ARNG
going who Ranger school or like my old unit ,Civil Affairs here in Southern California, that's Airborne qualified that allowed you to go to Airborne, air assault and even Ranger school if you were one of the better soldiers.

I was in Civil Affairs units this is a unit that is related to Special Operations( SO) that's why many of them are airborne qualified and they get deployed every other year and they work side-by-side with special forces.

I knew of a Civil Affairs staff sergeant who worked under me he became soldier of the Year, soldier of the Civil Affairs command he got his wish to go to Ranger school. he passed that that then he applied for Rotary Wing Aviation school and now he's a Warrant officer flying blackhawks but his civilian job is being in LA county Sheriff's Deputy!

There are lots of opportunities in the reserve component in case your son wants to go to school and earn a degree and once he gets his degree ,he can be a commissioned officer if he wants. I joined at age 31 and I became an officer almost at 34 years of age in the ARNG. This may not apply to your Son but I'm showing you that there are also lots of opportunities in the National Guard and Army Reserve and they're even in Special Forces Army National Guard detachments all over the USA. Just want to give you my opinion. hopefully Rallypoint will help you and your Son make the best decision.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2016 1:39 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 13:39:35 -0500

He needs a bit better ASVAB score for many of these vocations. Spec Ops training is pretty rugged physically and MENTALLY.

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2016 1:52 PM

ENS Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 13:52:58 -0500

Navy all the way! The Navy SEALs do it all!

Contact a recruiter and start taking PSTs.
500yard swim.
2 minutes of Push ups.
2 minutes of Sit ups.
2 minutes of Pull ups.
1.5 mile run.

Competitive scores:
Swim: Under 9 minutes.
Push ups: Between 90-100.
Sit ups: Between 90-100.
Pull ups: 18+
Run: Under 9 minutes.

When I contracted for BUDS my scores were:
9:04 Swim. 98 Chest to Ground Push ups. 102 Sit ups. 16 Pull ups. 8:54 Run.
FORM is the most important piece. No cheating. In BUDS, integrity is EVERYTHING.

Response by SSG Shavonde Chase made Nov 12 at 2016 1:57 PM

SSG Shavonde Chase — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 13:57:52 -0500

I would say approach it like any other job decision. Look at the different fields, career progression, and opportunities. Ask the recruiters directly and get online to do some research. Find people in both branches and ask what they like and what they don't.

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made Nov 12 at 2016 5:42 PM

GySgt Kenneth Pepper — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 17:42:12 -0500

A big concern should be what options will he be left with should he fail to qualify in the SOF MOS. I'm sure the kid is a stud, but reality is reality. Plan B should be a huge part of the decision.
Has he seen any of the stuff the re-designated Marine Raider battalions are doing?

Response by SPC Phil Norton made Nov 12 at 2016 6:35 PM

SPC Phil Norton — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 18:35:49 -0500

Not to sound harsh but 92 is a borderline score he should try to raise that. SOF is as much mental as physical. You have to be able to think through highly complicated tasks at an extreme level of distraction. That being said PJs are focused on the medical aspects SEALS have a variety of specialized positions. He needs to decide on a branch of service first then go from there

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2016 8:13 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 20:13:41 -0500

I think higher ASVAB scores are needed for Special Operations. What does he prefer, flying or floating?

Response by SFC George Smith made Nov 12 at 2016 9:11 PM

SFC George Smith — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 21:11:08 -0500

an ASVAB of less than 105 will preclude him from Army SF... unless they have lowered the scores...

Response by SSgt Michael Cox made Nov 13 at 2016 3:09 AM

SSgt Michael Cox — Sun, 13 Nov 2016 03:09:41 -0500

Like the others have said PJ's aren't SF they are SOF. The is a good TV series called Combat Rescue that he can watch on YouTube that will give him an idea of what it is like day to day while deployed. Also PJ's do have a very long school as they go to a bit of the schooling of the other SOF teams but also around a year of medical training before they graduate. One last thing is that PJ's don't always get assigned to AFSOC some get assigned to ACC or Air Combat Command which is the fighter command were they aren't treated the best.

I can't say much about the Navy since my only interaction with the navy was joint forces commands while deployed as AFSOC aircraft maintenance on Pavelows. And Port Ops at Hurlbert helping load Seal Team equipment on aircraft and talking to the commanders.

I do know if he wants the most comfortable life while at home station and deployed the Air Force is definitely the way to go.

Response by PO3 Michael James made Nov 13 at 2016 7:00 PM

PO3 Michael James — Sun, 13 Nov 2016 19:00:24 -0500

Yes, Interesting.. I side with the NAVY... However, if for some reason he does not make the "Cut" remember he would likely end-up onboard a surface Vessel.. Of Course he apply for Sub-Duty, which in itself is a specialized division of the NAVY.. But Remember, Should he end up on a surface vessel.. He is a SITTING DUCK!!! A surface Vessel is difficult to camouflage (it just doesn't work), they move Like Congress, they don't fit into any foxhole !! THINK, Just one good typhoon and she is tossed around like a bar of IVORY soap !! ... If underway and she is fired on... Well, you have to WAIT, sometimes up to 10/15 min.. Heart pounding.. /// ROE /// Congress has to approve , after all; the ship may offend some other country, so hold on to the life memories you have... After all, Congress does NOT want you to offend any other country (we might hurt someone) !! If response is approved.. Well ..... Secure what is around you.. Let the Hot LEAD Fly, and observe All Hell Breaking Loose... GO NAVY !!!

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2016 10:16 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Nov 2016 22:16:33 -0500

No bias here, but if he wants to go with the best then he should join the Navy... in my humble opinion :)! Now, I hope this doesn't start one of those inter-service contests (where the points don't matter but everything else does... just saying)!

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2016 8:17 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 08:17:08 -0500

He needs to decide on a MOS/Rate. The special forces option is only available after having some time in the service he wants to serve. It's not given right off the bat when at the recruiter's office. Have him start with a regular MOS, go to boot camp, school and have some time in the actual service. Friend of mine was gun-ho about Special Forces and he joined the Navy as a airman working with mechanics for F/A 18s and hasn't looked back since. He loves his job.

Telll him one step at a time; have him choose a service first, then move to boot camp.

Response by CPO Dave Homan made Nov 14 at 2016 11:06 AM

CPO Dave Homan — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 11:06:15 -0500

Not the navy. Seals are hard to get into and you need to get into the navy first. It's a pussy navy and I'd never recommend anyone join today. I did 22 years active duty in the navy. Sign me BTC retired. It's a pussy navy!

Response by SP5 Melissa Carlson made Nov 14 at 2016 12:57 PM

SP5 Melissa Carlson — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 12:57:47 -0500

Navy, I'd say more opportunity

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2017 1:00 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Feb 2017 01:00:22 -0500

A few years old, but overall a good reference: https://fas.org/irp/agency/dod/socom/factbook-2012.pdf

factbook-2012.pdf

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Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Feb 6 at 2017 4:12 PM

SFC Jim Ruether — Mon, 06 Feb 2017 16:12:17 -0500

I'd tell him to go for it but he's going to have to improve his PT score. He may be something special where he is right now but he will be in the presence of soldiers who max that PT test and then some.

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Feb 7 at 2017 1:00 PM

MSG Dan Castaneda — Tue, 07 Feb 2017 13:00:55 -0500

If he wants to be in "Special Forces," my first piece of advice, would be to join the Army. If he wants to be in Special Operations, then either one would suit.

Response by AN Earle Brown III made Feb 7 at 2017 1:22 PM

AN Earle Brown III — Tue, 07 Feb 2017 13:22:18 -0500

Para-rescue is intense the main question he should be asking is what does he want after a successful career in the military? BUDS is tough also, It comes down to military life and after life experiences.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Feb 7 at 2017 1:59 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Tue, 07 Feb 2017 13:59:38 -0500

Actually, I'd recommend the Army. The Army has an entire branch dedicated to Special Operations. Rangers, Special Forces (Green Berets), psychological operations, and SF aviation are all "special operations forces" in the Army. This means there are a lot more Soldiers engaged in special operations than any other Service. Also, SF is a combat arm of the Army and is a "main stream" part of the Army. Opportunities are improved because of the number of Soldiers engaged in special operations.

Air Force SOF is limited to PJs and the AF Special Operations Units. The C-130 and helicopter aircrews, which include enlisted personnel, are considered special operations forces. The entire AFSOF is small compared to the USAF and the opportunities are limited because of the small size compared to the entire AF.

My knowledge of Navy SOF is very limited. The SEALS and small boat crews are SOF. Like the AFSOF, the total numbers of SOF Sailors is small. The opportunities will be limited in a small community.

Hope this helps. I salute your son's willingness to serve.

Response by PO3 Frank McCain made Feb 7 at 2017 5:01 PM

PO3 Frank McCain — Tue, 07 Feb 2017 17:01:49 -0500

With all respect to all special forces think if you are all in go SEALS he needs to have the mind set it is the only thing he wants through buds and training they have the best training program bar none. My hat is off for him looking to join hope he pushes through and makes the cut.

Response by SMSgt Timothy Cathers made Feb 9 at 2017 5:03 PM

SMSgt Timothy Cathers — Thu, 09 Feb 2017 17:03:27 -0500

Air Force

Response by CPO Bill Penrod made Aug 7 at 2017 1:01 AM

CPO Bill Penrod — Mon, 07 Aug 2017 01:01:34 -0400

The Navy has a SEAL challenge program. He should request a SEAL Mentor and get his swim quals at Coanado or Little Creek. Good luck.....

Response by PVT Mark Brown made Aug 7 at 2017 1:14 AM

PVT Mark Brown — Mon, 07 Aug 2017 01:14:42 -0400

I am prejudiced but my answer is Army and then, depending on his goal or interest Ranger or SF (some have done both.)

Response by MSgt Earle Clark made Sep 29 at 2017 5:17 PM

MSgt Earle Clark — Fri, 29 Sep 2017 17:17:01 -0400

Let him decide, but Air Force Air Commando he would be close knit with Army, Navy, special Forces, and International Special Groups! If he is eagar and alert, I recommend this, but he needs comrade support!

Response by PO1 Barbara Wagner made Aug 10 at 2019 6:49 AM

PO1 Barbara Wagner — Sat, 10 Aug 2019 06:49:17 -0400

Navy SEALS are the Navy's elite force. To the best of my knowledge, the Air Force does not have special forces. I served active duty in the Navy for 14 years prior to being medically discharged. BUDS training is exceptionally difficult and he can apply and if he meets the requirements, he will be selected. ASVAB scores are only part of the requirements. I can state that if for some reason he can't complete BUDS, the Air Force has better quality of life. The real question is does he want to go to sea or does he prefer to be more stateside? Being biased, the Navy SEALS are the elite fighting force. It all comes down to the individual. He also needs to understand the Navy cannot guarantee that he will be picked up for BUDS training or a guarantee that he will complete the training.

Response by PO3 Mike Bek made Aug 11 at 2019 10:10 PM

PO3 Mike Bek — Sun, 11 Aug 2019 22:10:01 -0400

I'd say don't let the movies pick your career. With that test score pick a good civilian career and start it in the service. Pick the career and that will probably pick the branch.

Response by COL Gary Gresh made Aug 13 at 2019 7:49 AM

COL Gary Gresh — Tue, 13 Aug 2019 07:49:15 -0400

Do your own homework. Everyone and all branches of the service are different but all serve the country well. Visit all the recruiters and read all you can before jumping! Education is the key. Know what you are signing up for. Think of the future and leave room for possible family, goals, and desires. You can easily make the right decision for your family. All of us think that our path was the right path and want others to follow to reinforce our own egos. Put your shoes on and follow your own path. You will be happier.