Military life compared to socialism

2015-01-14T00:15:02-05:00

There have been many comparisons of military life to a socialism existence.

I am strictly conservative and find this subject distasteful, however, I bring it up to see how everyone else has responded to this argument. A large majority of military members run the conservative gamut, and therefore are largely anti-socialism.
However, we have seen many changes in the last decade thst appear to be taking this great country down a very govt-dependent path.

In a Socialism model, there is no difference in class, we are all equals, and none do without. Education, Health, Housing is all paid for...this is one of the arguments about the eerily similarities of military life and socialism.

2 million men and women wake up at approximately the same time.
They all wear the same uniform.
They all March to the same drum or cadence, even singing songs.
Their housing is taken care of and communal living is commonplace. When communal living is not provided, private housing is subsidized. Food is provided. Everyone is paid according to their rank, not merit. (Merit comes in later, of course)
Free healthcare is provided, often times for life.
There is little difference in lifestyle between troops, they can pretty much live as equals, none richer than the other.
We contribute $1200 to the MGIB, and get back $90k+. That is a free education no matter how you look at it.
The Differences:
It is a volunteer force until you sign the document, then and only then you are forced...or in a contract.
There is a merit based system, so one can advance.
The poorest soldier can, over time, make it from the stock room to the boardroom (figuratively speaking), and eventually become a General Officer.

When this topic is broached with your peers or liberal family member, how do you handle it?
Do you agree about the eery similarities?
Does it kind of create a paradox with your conservative ideals?

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 12:17 AM

2015-01-14T00:17:38-05:00

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/21/troops-of-the-uniform-unite-the-military-is-a-socialist-paradise.html

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 12:28 AM

2015-01-14T00:28:20-05:00

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member. One could just as easily argue that the military is ultimately equivalent to a feudal hierarchical oligarchy where the rich, famous, and otherwise privileged class has distinct and almost hereditary advantage in being initially appointed to officer ranks and future advancement. Or an early imperial predatory capitalist economy poaching on their neighboring indigenous populations / economies for sake of advancement of capitalist lords / economies vs exploited populations / economies. One could even argue the military might be reasonably characterized as a totalitarian dictatorship . . . only the president in this case is not president for life. The military cannot be reasonably classified as socialism. Yes, I'm a conservative constitutional constructionist. Warmest Regards, Sandy

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 12:35 AM

2015-01-14T00:35:46-05:00

I think the military is Socialist in a broad sense for the reasons stated. Military healthcare is socialized, the supply system is certainly socialized, the needs and freedoms of the organization or group are typically placed ahead of those of the individual. There could be an argument it is also somewhat Fascist.

Response by SFC Josh Jackson made Jan 14 at 2015 12:36 AM

2015-01-14T00:36:03-05:00

I don't agree. There is a clear difference in status. Economically, there is an upper, middle, and lower class (officers, NCOs and junior enlisted). Service members may change both class and occupation, commensurate with the amount of effort they put into it in the form of commissioning and reclassification (at least in the Army; I'm not sure how changing jobs works in other branches).

From my own experience, I have enjoyed greater liberty than most of my civilian friends, those who, in your analogy, supposedly live in a system with greater freedom. I have more reliable and predictable opportunity to advance than many civilians do. I enjoy greater economic prosperity as well. My ability to get a "free" education is the indirect result of the effort I put into my job. The tuition assistance I receive is a supplemental form of compensation for the work I choose to do.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 1:19 AM

2015-01-14T01:19:33-05:00

The military has the superficial appearance of socialism, but if you look at the whole instead of cherry picking points to prove a point you realize there are also fundamental military "things" that are completely opposed to socialism.

We are not equal in the military, we are equal to those of the same rank in the military; with others above us and others below. We are given rewards (recognition, coins, medals, etc.) for exceptional performance and are punished for poor performance.

To claim the military is a socialist paradise is short sighted . . . as socialism often seems to be.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Jan 14 at 2015 8:09 AM

2015-01-14T08:09:17-05:00

Military is absolutely a "class" system, not a socialist system

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Jan 14 at 2015 8:40 AM

2015-01-14T08:40:18-05:00

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member I'd call it a voluntary (initially) socialism. The phrase "War-communism" arises essentially from the idea of extending state control in military ways to all functions of society.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 8:52 AM

2015-01-14T08:52:30-05:00

The similarities are superficial, and are the result, not of comparing military life to an economic system, but because military life requires a certain amount of authoritarianism to function, being the only substantive similarity.

We've all heard, and embraced to one extent or another, that we defend Democracy, we don't practice it. And that's the crux of the matter.

And the greatest difference in this aspect is that those living under Socialism have little opportunity to exit or choice about entry. In the military, we sign a contract, absent a draft, of our own volition. We receive housing, food, medical care, education.... as terms of our very Capitalist contract.

If you remove that authoritarian element, all that remains are benefits earned in return for work.

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Jan 14 at 2015 9:25 AM

2015-01-14T09:25:47-05:00

I don't think so tho. While all are treated as equal in some aspects (food, lodging, medical, and other benefits), there is no equality. Some of the benefits are based on rank and/or time in service. As in any employment situation, you have entry level pay, mid level, high level....both on the workers/factory line (enlisted for the most part), and entry, mid, high level pay on the management side (officers for the most part).

Response by MSgt Ramon Almendarez Jr made Jan 14 at 2015 9:55 AM

2015-01-14T09:55:51-05:00

Convents and monasteries come to mind. One person in charge and every one doing the same thing at the same time. Wear the same clothing. Food for thought. In Vietnam there were the Monks.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 10:52 AM

2015-01-14T10:52:12-05:00

There is nothing more feared and hated in America.

The word alone sends shivers down the spine of the American people.

Those three syllables conger up images of Big Brother Government ruling over us all, telling us what to eat, wear, buy, and think. Our children in national uniform being indoctrinated with propaganda in government education camps that use to be schools, turning them into little slaves. While their parents work twelve hour shifts in the concentration camp that slaughters rich successful billionaires, as the poor and needy get a million dollars a month in welfare. A murderous government waging a war against freedom and liberty to gain complete control over everyone and everything.

You know, the way things were under that socialist Bill Clinton. And the way things are now under that socialist Barack Obama.

They imagine the USSR and how Democrats are turning America into it because our government will give money to poor people so they don't starve to death. (Giving money to billion dollar corporations is NOT socialism somehow. You would be a communist and a hippie to think otherwise.)

This is scary stuff!

And it's about to get scarier, because I have some terrifying news for you....

Socialism is alive and well in America and it has been here for a very long time! Every tax supported benefit program from IRS, TSA, NPR, CIA, to police and fire department to wages for teachers, politicians, military, to even our sewer and garbage are all tax supported and you all reap the benefits even if you do not pay one dime in taxes.

How ironic...I'm not any more comfortable discussing this than the next person. I'm not trying to sway your beliefs, but there it is...on paper.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 11:08 AM

2015-01-14T11:08:08-05:00

Completely tax supported...our government and the Defense to defend it. Anything completely tax supported is defined as socialism using today's definition. MSG Ramon Hidalgo-Acosta WIC, Welfare, SSDI, Military wages, Politician wages, Police, Fire, CIA, FBI, WPA wages. All of these are completely tax supported.

Response by SGT James Elphick made Jan 14 at 2015 11:16 AM

2015-01-14T11:16:42-05:00

The military is very much a socialist system, though not communist, and the difference is important. In communism, there would be not meritocracy at all - as Marx believed "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need." This pretty much sums up communism, but socialism is different. Many people think these words mean the same thing but they are different. Unfortunately for many people's beliefs the military has many socialist aspects, specifically the ones that were listed in the original post.

I've always found it interesting how anti-socialist so many military members are when that is the system they lived and worked under.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jan 14 at 2015 12:21 PM

2015-01-14T12:21:22-05:00

Socialism is not about dressing the same, living by the same schedule, marching to the beat of the same drum, etc. It's about public ownership of property. In the military, everything is GI.

Socialism isn't supposed to create classes of people, but it has in every instance in which it has been tried. Socialism always results in a two-tier division of authority, with a strong central government deciding what is "fair" for everyone else (but effectively reserved a "more fair" share for themselves). The American military depends on a multi-tiered distribution of authority with individual components being able to direct themselves when cut off from the central command. Ultimately, every E1 must take responsibility for themselves and their actions. Under socialism, the blame theoretically devolves on the collective (although the collective usually deflects it on a scapegoat).

Socialism is driven by intent. Failure is not only accepted but also celebrated so long as the intent was good. The military is results driven. Winning is all. Failure is never celebrated.

Of course, I am comparing socialism to the American military. The military serving socialism nations has failed because they too closely resembled the society they defended. The armies of the Axis powers, for example, failed largely because they were driven by command structures that closely resembled their governments. When cut off from their leaders, individual soldiers were unable to adapt. Americans were frequently led by individuals who rose to the challenge when their leaders were killed or communications were cut off. The values of individualism and liberty that we prized as civilians served us well, even in the authoritarian atmosphere of the military.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 1:31 PM

2015-01-14T13:31:01-05:00

The military is a very authoritarian type of socialism, that said... there are many different types of socialism. My own interpretation of socialism is putting the welfare of the group over that of the individual... while capitalism is putting the welfare of the individual over that of the group. I think it's obvious that there need to be a balance between the two, and that the real difference for most of us is where we would draw that line.

Hating a word like Capitalism or Socialism so much that you can't reasonably discuss how we establish an optimal balance between the two doesn't help anyone.

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Jan 14 at 2015 4:58 PM

2015-01-14T16:58:13-05:00

Of course there are similarities to Socialism in the Military. Our American way of life includes many similarities to Socialism and has since the Great Depression and FDR. One could also make the fallacious argument that the military way of life is based on Sparta rather than Athens; it would be as valid as saying Socialism rather than Democracy.

The Socialist Model fails because people may advance not through an impartial systematic system, but through self promotion but hard work, which is supposed to be the same for ALL workers in that system. There should be no difference in pay or privileges between any of the workers and there certainly should never be any managers; yet in the military you can advance through a total of 24 different promotions. What true Socialist Society would ever have that many classes?

Response by SSgt Everett Jones made Jan 14 at 2015 5:23 PM

2015-01-14T17:23:52-05:00

I was always taught that the military was an autocracy, of course, that was in the days before people could just cry about things and get them changed to their liking, as well as pick and choose which regulations and orders they wanted to follow.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Jan 14 at 2015 6:55 PM

2015-01-14T18:55:09-05:00

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member, there have been many arguments presented here about your topic, so I won't burden the RP population with more. I guess my thoughts are more concerned with your last paragraph, wherein you pose your questions. I served for 28 years, and in that time, no one, even during the Vietnam era when everyone questioned everything, has ever compared military service to socialism, whether they were liberal or conservative. I don't think that people in general think of military service that way. Quite frankly, I never looked at that way myself. It creates no paradox for me.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 8:32 PM

2015-01-14T20:32:54-05:00

You make some good points, SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member. I have thought those same thoughts about government workers. They bemoan welfare and then they sit around BS'ing half the day away (or an hour here and an hour there) all the while getting paid $45 an hour or more (and it's more in a LOT of cases).

I'm conservative minded politically, but I definitely see the similarities between military life and socialism.

Response by SPC Stewart Smith made Jan 14 at 2015 9:49 PM

2015-01-14T21:49:03-05:00

Absolutely I see the similarities. America has a lot more socialism than people like to think. Like medicaid, social security, our police force, public school system, foodstamps, pell grants, fire department, public works, and subsidized housing.

There are plenty of examples of socialism in the states and most people don't even realize it. Lots of them are even good.

Also, we are not a democracy. We are a republic. People seem to not realize that as well.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Jul 28 at 2016 2:57 PM

2016-07-28T14:57:05-04:00

Yep, it is so why make a big deal about it; it is what it is.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jul 28 at 2016 3:06 PM

2016-07-28T15:06:35-04:00

People believe the military is "socialist" because we have universal health care, retirement and other trappings that on the surface appear socialistic. However, what they fail to realize is that those benefits only come if you are IN the military.....meaning they are tied to employment not universal entitlements. As long as you are employed by the military you get them. Unless you retire (and when you retire you're still technically IN the military) or have service connected disabilities, the day you leave, you lose those bennies. That is not how socialistic entitlements work.

Response by SGT Morrison (Mike) Hogwood made Jul 28 at 2016 3:33 PM

2016-07-28T15:33:07-04:00

When i was in, during mostly cold war era,i felt like we had to live it in order to understand and fight against it ,it did feel like it it on occasions ,learned to adapt to it,but the cold beer at the end of the day was refreshing ah.