Mentorship: Doesn't Stop When You're Promoted, Doesn't Stop When You Retire

CPO Greg Frazho — Wed, 21 Jan 2015 16:51:38 -0500

It’s strange, but I used to think mentorship was a bunch of corporate rubbish. I used a much stronger word than ‘rubbish’ when I was a younger lad, but I’ll keep it clean for the sake of consumption and professionalism. Only when I became a chief petty officer did I really understand and begin to appreciate what the importance of good mentorship is. To be fair about it, mentorship, while fairly informal, is something we should be doing almost subconsciously. I found myself in the habit of thinking: ‘Hmm, I haven’t talked to (insert name) in a while. I wonder how he or she is doing.’ And then I would contact them whether via phone, e-mail, text or smoke signal; whatever works best. As the mentor, it’s up to you to initiate a dialogue.

As junior enlisted we should all have mentors. I would argue that a good portion of American youth could really use mentorship. Did I have mentorship when I first went active in 1993? No, not really - I kind of went my own way. Perhaps I even thought deep down that I didn’t need a mentor. But, it hadn’t really taken on its current luster back in the early 1990s. As mid-grade NCOs, we could probably use both a mentor and one (if not several) protégés at the same time. As a senior enlisted NCO, whether command master chief, command sergeant major, chief petty officer, or master sergeant, we should be doing mentorship almost full-time.

It doesn’t stop when one has reached the pinnacle or even a major benchmark of a service member’s career. If anything, it becomes more profound the more rank and seniority we accrue. After all, what mentor wouldn’t leverage his or her depth of experience to make the whole enterprise more enriching?

Now to the crux of the matter: does it stop once you leave active duty? Short answer: it does if you want it to. But by the same token, it carries on if you want it to, and I think it should. I currently mentor between four and six active and formerly active service members. In some ways, my role as a mentor has become even more multi-faceted and more personally fulfilling than when I was on active duty. How is that possible?

Firstly, I have a lot more time on my hands than when I was in uniform. That alone makes for the facilitating of several mentorships. Secondly, I can give a candid and unfettered view of what I think somebody’s situation is, whether it’s a personal problem, a professional quandary or advice on life in general, or even the politics of the day. It’s not that I didn’t do that on active duty. Rather it’s the fact that I’m not really bound by hierarchical convention any longer and I can attribute a lot of what I’ve seen and done without concerns over retribution. (And, no, I’m not talking about violating OPSEC or the National Security Act when I say that.) Thirdly, and I’ve been doing a lot of this over the last year or so, I can and have put together point papers and recommendations based on observations in training ramp-ups and in combat zones. I have a certain detachment now that I’m retired from the job, but only to put it in historical perspective. In most, if not all other senses, I’m the same guy I was when I wore the uniform. In other words, I’m only as irrelevant as I want to be.

If I wanted to be a has-been that doesn’t give a damn about the future of the DoD, the Navy and my community, I could easily fly the “I-don’t-care” flag on my front lawn. There are some who have and do. Perhaps this is the Chief Petty Officer Creed still ringing in my ears from 2003, but I’m not ready to go over the hill and die just yet. I’ve still got a lot to contribute and I know you do, too, if you’ve read this far. If you want to be a part of the discussion, join one. If you want to change or advance a different point of view, initiate one. And if you want to stay active subsequent to leaving active duty, be one.

Response by SFC Boots Attaway made Jan 21 at 2015 5:39 PM

SFC Boots Attaway — Wed, 21 Jan 2015 17:39:25 -0500

Mentorship is forever as there will always be young people who need guidance.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2015 8:35 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Jan 2015 20:35:31 -0500

Mentorship is a must. All are not receptive to it, yet for all of us who were we have benefited. For those of us that have long since or recently retired still serve as mentors (at times unknowingly) here on RP. I see it often and enjoying seeing one come back and post a "thanks, much appreciated" to whomever it was that provided the guidance,advice, or an explanation in a topic.

Often, mentoring occurs without even realizing at the time. When one or some of your young Soldiers from long ago (for me 18+ yrs ago when retired) that became 1SGs, SGMs, CSMs and some Officers now and still serving, still reach out from time to time to talk, ask advice...you know made an impact. When it's been that long and they still remember....you did your job.....you were a good mentor!

Response by PO1 Michael Fullmer made Jan 22 at 2015 12:37 AM

PO1 Michael Fullmer — Thu, 22 Jan 2015 00:37:12 -0500

Mentor-ship, can be a very important part of a young persons career, with the right mentor. I had the honor of having 2 such individuals in my career. These individuals allowed me to make mistakes and learn from them. The instruction I received allowed me to flourish and in turn the ability to take a couple of folks under my wing later on in my career. The 2 gentlemen also became my friends and have been for several decades now.

Response by CPO Greg Frazho made Jan 22 at 2015 10:46 AM

CPO Greg Frazho — Thu, 22 Jan 2015 10:46:12 -0500

GEN Colin Powell once said, "Perpetual optimism is its own force multiplier." So's good mentorship, not least which because of its multi-generational impact.

Response by MSG Floyd Williams made Jan 22 at 2015 11:44 AM

MSG Floyd Williams — Thu, 22 Jan 2015 11:44:14 -0500

CPO Greg Frazho... Mentoring will never stop for me as long as I have breathe in my body and mentally stable to reach to whoever need expertise and wisdom, it isn't for me to keep for myself but to share with others.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2015 12:15 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Jan 2015 12:15:28 -0500

it should be constant. there's always someone to learn from, just as there's always someone looking to learn something new!!!

Response by CW5 Jim Steddum made Jan 22 at 2015 12:20 PM

CW5 Jim Steddum — Thu, 22 Jan 2015 12:20:52 -0500

Mentorship is critical to any aspiring leader. But what is ofter not considered is mentors should be sought, not forced to provide mentoring. And, while it is usually senior-junior relationship, it does not have to be. The mentor has more experience, and that is where the knowledge flow comes from. Mentorship is not a military thing... and therefore can happen anywhere and anytime (during or after military service.) That trust factor is critical though. I cannot go to someone and say, i am your mentor, listen to me. It should not work that way. However, offering to share experiences and new ways approaching things, can and ofter should lead to a good mentoring relationship.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2015 4:06 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Jan 2015 16:06:03 -0500

I agree mentorship is key for aspiring leaders to provide mentorship and to also seek mentorship. Trust is an important factor to have between mentor and mentee. Personally speaking, many seniors who I sought as mentors disappointed me because I did not feel I could trust them to hold our discussions in confidence. On the other hand, once I found someone I felt I could trust I would seek them out to provide me guidance on personal and professional matters. I would like to think that I was also able to provide them with something in return just by me sharing my experiences with them.

One of the most rewarding feelings for me to date is when a former Soldier contacts me to ask my advice or just to catch up with me.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2015 1:30 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Jan 2015 13:30:15 -0500

Mentorship is a enduring effort that will forever be needed. You leaders yearn for guidance through experiences that are currently beyond thier reach. More Senior Leaders are worried about thier legacy and not about making an impact. It should always be about the we's and not the me's. Pay it forward always....do for others that cannot do for themselves. Mentorship is a great place to start. Along with young people who need guidance, you will be amazed by what you as a mentor gain from the experience as well. These young people have a way of teaching as well. Every experience is an opportunity to learn, TAKE IT!!!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 7:55 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Jan 2015 19:55:05 -0500

I have a few comments. First, mentorship can come in many forms. The most common being senior to subordinate. Recently I found myself reaching out to two VERY trusted mentors who told me what I needed to hear, not necessarily what I wanted to hear. The next is peer-to-peer mentorship from which I benefit on a daily basis. I am the oldest captain in the battalion, but yet I have the sense and humility to understand that I can learn from those who are younger or subordinate than I am who have other life experiences. Furthermore, the mentee must be willing to be mentored, it is a must. I have heard countless full-bird colonels who have admitted that they still reach out to their mentors. Mentorship should not, however, be abused. I for one hope to be able to stay in contact with my mentors after I retire for the simple fact that they will have retired before me; we can continue to benefit from each other's experiences. I welcome feedback.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 12:51 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 12:51:49 -0500

Mentorship I have received in my career has not only effected my professional life but also my personal life over the short time I have been in the Army. One of the first things I did after PCSing is look for a mentorship program as soon as I changed station. I attribute the knowledge and goals I have attained to the great leaders who new of it's sometimes overwhelming importance and responsibility to do so. I can attest to the fact that when I come across a situation(s) that I have not experienced before or have not directly had to deal with, I can make a phone call or send an email to a person I know has the capacity to help walk me through my decision process to come to my own way of dealing with the issue(s). That being said, even if I was in a different profession other than the military (i.e. Doctor, lawyer, professor), I could still see myself looking for mentorship. There will always be someone out there you can learn from. Mentorship can help a person organize their thoughts, clear the path for themselves, and ultimately accomplish goals. On another note, I always hear in the Army, "It's lonely at the top." This has me wonder who do CSM or LTC go to for mentorship? They cannot know EVERYTHING that has to do with the Army and am assuming the same for other branches of service. Can anyone answer that question? Just curious.

Response by PO1 David Kazimierczak made Feb 17 at 2015 8:30 PM

PO1 David Kazimierczak — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:30:34 -0500

There is nothing ever wrong with being a good mentor. That is tradition for whatever Branch you may have served. That is being a Sea Daddy in the Navy. You take that young trooper, under your wing and teach them the ropes. That is your job as a higher enlisted rank. That is your job as a senior officer. It will always make you a stronger person your self. Keep charging ahead.. Always look out for your fellow Team member.. That's what its all about "TEAMWORK"

Response by COL John Power made Feb 25 at 2015 12:59 PM

COL John Power — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 12:59:06 -0500

I see it as the responsibility of every senior person to mentor those coming up in order to build the best force possible. It should be considered part of the job. When I was in the Army many officers had general officer "god-fathers"; senior officers who served as mentors and sort of looked after their careers and went to bat for them if necessary. Every leader should "coach" the subordinates and that is essentially mentorship. One can always teach and one should always be learning. Those that are bold enough to think they can learn nothing from those who have already walked the path are usually too unwise to go very far.

Response by Cpl Luke Smith made Feb 25 at 2015 2:32 PM

Cpl Luke Smith — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 14:32:40 -0500

I think mentorship is something that is always there. Regardless of the rank you hold in the military or after you transition into the civilian world.

Response by SFC Daniel Griffith made Feb 25 at 2015 2:34 PM

SFC Daniel Griffith — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 14:34:36 -0500

Mentorship is a continuous growth program for both parties of the mentoring relationship. As people grow and age in the military, the relationship may feel more one sided in the giving side than the receiving side. However, I will say that as a recent retiree, the mentoring must spark anew if someone is going to be successful in the transition from uniform to civilian clothing. Mentorship must be a B2G (Birth to Grave) concept to be successful and it has to be a perpetual give and receive process.

Response by Cpl Sean Rising made Feb 25 at 2015 4:18 PM

Cpl Sean Rising — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 16:18:37 -0500

To be a positive influence on people in the vicinity of your nearest pay grade is crucial and should be commended. I did a lot of team building things with my guys (didn't realize that's what i was doing at the time though). I wanted everyone to be as successful as they possibly could in whatever they wanted to do and encouraged them to better themselves without being weird about it.
Too much under is not trusting the people who you support to support their people unless you are in a political position or needing to make sweeping changes.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Feb 25 at 2015 4:54 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 16:54:08 -0500

Thank you for raising the subject. I was about to pass it by when a thought crept up on me, one that I'd like to share...

One of the last classes I had in OCS was delivered by a major who felt that it was important that we aspiring lieutenants should hear. To be a good officer, he offered, we had to be arrogant.

I bet you're reacting to that statement just about the same as I did when I first heard it. However, over the years I've learned that it's true. Standing up while all about you are confused and afraid and saying "Follow me" is the supreme act of arrogance. (Don't confuse "arrogance" with "hubris". Arrogance, good. Hubris, bad.)

The thought that occurred to me is that "mentorship" is just another word for "leadership". (Funny, my spell checker doesn't recognize "mentorship". Maybe it's exhausted from all my other misspellings. Maybe I just invented a new word.)

Sorry for getting sidetracked. Let me say it again...

"Mentorship" is just another word for "leadership", and like leadership, to mentor someone takes arrogance. You have to believe that you have something worthwhile to offer.

I've been a mentor all my life. Virtually everything I ever learned and practice, I've taught to others.

I've gained great satisfaction from mentoring others. However, on a selfish note, I've gotten a lot more from mentoring than I've given. For example, I am a self-taught computer programmer. I was pretty good at it. You can't fake good code. Either it works - the computer performs a useful function correctly - or it doesn't. I then taught computer programming. Interestingly, as I helped students discover their errors and fix them, I improved my own skills. When someone asked me how I could uncover an error and fix it so quickly, I said honestly that I had lots of practice. I had not only made that error myself (many times), but helped others with the same error even more times. (Learning, you must understand, comes from making mistakes. If you never make a mistake, you'll never learn anything new)

Sorry, I'm really going on here, aren't I? Funny, I almost didn't even respond to this discussion...

Response by SPC David Shaffer made Feb 25 at 2015 9:13 PM

SPC David Shaffer — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 21:13:05 -0500

Those who are great have always had great mentors. Who would you aspire to be if there was no one great before you?

Response by SPC James Mcneil made Feb 26 at 2015 7:28 AM

SPC James Mcneil — Thu, 26 Feb 2015 07:28:07 -0500

I believe the importance of having a mentor as well as being a mentor never goes away. There are always new things to learn and there will always be a need to share what you know.

Response by PO1 William Schluderberg made Feb 26 at 2015 4:19 PM

PO1 William Schluderberg — Thu, 26 Feb 2015 16:19:59 -0500

Motto of Navy medicine.... see one, do one, teach one!

The exposure to so many different leaders during our military career is what gives us several lifetimes of experience compared to our civilian counterparts. You have the opportunity to learn from the good and bad. The extensive volume of these experiences is unparalleled in any other setting. Had several extremely influential mentors during my 20 yrs. Ssgt. and Adm. you know who you are and I thank you dearly.

Response by SFC Collin McMillion made Feb 26 at 2015 5:43 PM

SFC Collin McMillion — Thu, 26 Feb 2015 17:43:02 -0500

I not only think it should not stop, but increase as as time and/or convenience allows. The higher we go and grow the more knowledge we aquire and are able to pass along, especially since every aspect seems to be changing so quickly.

Response by PO1 David A Moore made Mar 2 at 2015 12:22 AM

PO1 David A Moore — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 00:22:18 -0500

I wish I had had a mentor when I was on active duty. I see lots of posts from veterans who stayed on active duty for 20 or more years who said they had mentors who helped them along the way. I had one when I was in the Naval Reserves, he was a Radioman Chief who served in Vietnam as a seaman. He always answered the questions I needed answers to and I value his friendship to this day.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 12:26 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 00:26:56 -0500

Never stop...my head stone will have a link where you can get sarcastic advice that will be funny but helpful...patent pending