Leadership training as a Specialist - how to best practice it?

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 16:20:43 -0400

Reason being is that over the past 8+ years in the military, I've always been taught to perform one rank above your current rank and build your leadership skills. Now that I am national guard(prior marine corps), all E5 and above assume you can delegate orders efficiently and safely. 95% of the time, this is not the case. New NCOs are power hungry and become jumble-minded when delegating tasks and highly tend to step on other NCOs toes because no one taught them how to be a leader. Being that I was an NCO before coming to the guard, I feel like all my effort is now in vain because quote(by an E8) "you do not possess the necessary knowledge or skill to task a soldier out because you are not a NCO." Anyone want to give insight on this?

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2015 4:23 PM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 16:23:57 -0400

How can I edit this post. I messed up a spot

Response by SSG Eric Eck made Jul 6 at 2015 4:32 PM

SSG Eric Eck — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 16:32:03 -0400

E-4 in the Army is expected to delegate and supervise in the absence of leadership, you may not necessarily "task out", but you are there to ensure the completion of the task.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2015 4:33 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 16:33:59 -0400

I would have told said E8 that "I was an NCO previously and I would respectively appreciate it it you would not pass judgement on what I am capable of until I am given a chance to do it"....pause a second and stare...then "Sergeant".

I might have even continued with "Since you are a Master Sergeant, I assume you know that one of the roles of NCO's is to mentor and train junior leaders. Please help me learn some of this skill and knowledge...just so I can learn, Sergeant, how would you task (said soldier) out."

But that is my style...I hate being challenged unnecessarily on my abilities

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2015 5:32 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 17:32:11 -0400

My company has a guy who recently transferred over from the Corps. He told me (as I would imagine) it's hard for him to not be an NCO anymore. Hopefully this MSG doesn't know that you ARE an NCO whether you are wearing stripes or not, and isn't just rubbing it in your face. I'd ignore him as much as possible, and drive on; prove him wrong and earn your stripes!

Response by CPL Ron Oakes made Jul 7 at 2015 2:02 AM

CPL Ron Oakes — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 02:02:31 -0400

I did the same and as prior service Marine I used my knowlege in the class room enviroment to show the NCO's that I wasn't a boot SPC. That and I was lucky enough to have NCO's that were prior service also. Keep ur bearing and use your training to mentor younger troops and the true NCO's will recognize that . It will take a while but it will come.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2015 10:50 AM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 10:50:31 -0400

The key question is: Are you in charge of any Soldiers? If so then they are your responsibility and you can task them out. If you aren't in charge, all you have is general military authority.

Response by SPC Nathan Freeman made Jul 7 at 2015 12:51 PM

SPC Nathan Freeman — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 12:51:35 -0400

I think what he's trying to say is that when they pin the stripes on you, a dove flies down from heaven and imparts special knowledge and power upon you which you cannot learn from a book. Wait, no .... That only happened to Jesus. As you were. Ask him to mentor you (which includes giving you responsibility and showing you how to improve)

Sounds like he's a condescending little prick who probably got ghost boarded

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jul 7 at 2015 4:15 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 16:15:10 -0400

I would support future leaders and their growth professionally.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2015 7:51 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 19:51:30 -0400

In my experience I find that just working hard and performing at your best will help you get to a position with your first line leaders in which they will place your in situations that will help you practice your leadership skills. wether it be in charge of a detail or in a training enviroment in the role of a team leader,squad leader and so on. The more confidence your leadership has in you the more "practice" you'll get being the one who leads

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2015 9:35 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 21:35:36 -0400

The NCO pledge or creed states that "no one is mor professional than I"... I found this to be almost never true. That does not mean that we did not have good people. They were however minimized by self important people of higher ranks that were everything but professional.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2015 11:55 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 11:55:21 -0400

I've found that knowing my job, and being reliable, has been a big help in getting me a leadership role. Hold yourself to the higher standard, and encourage your fellow lower enlisted to do the same. The good NCOs will notice and leadership opportunities will come more often. Also keep a cool and level head when doing something new.

Response by MSG(P) Rafael Aguilera made Jul 8 at 2015 4:58 PM

MSG(P) Rafael Aguilera — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 16:58:58 -0400

There has been a downward spiral in the military as a whole on the importance of mentorship. I have implemented a 2 down / 1 up system in my unit. My senior NCOs are directly responsible for mentoring a Soldier 2 ranks junior to them. In turn this prepares junior personnel to operate 1 position higher than their current level. It has worked well; morale is at an all time high in the unit and there are several units implementing it now.
You were an NCO - you know what right looks like. Be the change in that unit.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2015 6:55 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 18:55:51 -0400

I was a squad leader and in charge of 3 maintenance shops as an E4 in the 82nd. my chain of command supported this because I proved to them in iraq that I was capable of managing while my squad leader was sent elsewhere for weeks at a time. Even though my soldiers were all the same rank as me they respected the position I was placed in. I have learned (alot of it the hard way.) that the best way to be a leader as an E4 is to be competent in everything you do. That confidence bleeds through to your peers and they will find themselves naturally doing things you suggest rather then having to offend them by outright giving an order. most importantly, your NCO's will notice this quality about you eventually and you will find yourself standing before a board in short order.

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2015 7:35 PM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 19:35:06 -0400

You know, I just realized that rally point admin changed the wording in my topic. I'm sitting here wondering why I getting tips on how to be a leader but when all I wanted is to know why NCOs don't let specialists be put in a leadership position in order to build their skills instead of assuming the skills are magically squired when getting pinned E5.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jul 8 at 2015 9:14 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 21:14:02 -0400

Stick to Standards, Conditions, and Terminal Learning Objectives and any twists that will make training better.

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2015 9:40 PM

LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 21:40:32 -0400

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member Granted I am still in the process of learning and developing leadership skills myself, I can offer a few suggestions on how to learn. One method breaks learning leadership in to four categories: Study, Practice, Observe, Mentorship (SPOM). Even when you are not given the chance to practice leadership you can study the AR's and FM's and read books on leadership. You can watch both leaders you respect and the rest and compare and contrast their methods and habits. Finding a good mentor who knows your strengths and weakness and is in your corner is almost essential. At the very least it can make things more bearable.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2015 1:30 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Jul 2015 13:30:44 -0400

I would say you are in the wrong company/ battalion. In my company allows its Spc's to assume leadership positions and delegate other matters if that soldier is not a f*ck up. We as Spc are supposed to be the most knowledgable soldiers under under the nco's(sadly it doesn't always happen) so if the leadership is wise they will use their Spc to help manage and mentor the e-1's through e-3's so that when their time comes they will have the knowledge to do the same.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 7 at 2015 4:47 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 07 Sep 2015 16:47:05 -0400

Learn the OPORD format, how to set Priorities of Work, Practice backward planning if appropriate, Know that a FRAGO is an update to the OPORD. Know the Troop Leading Procedures that is nested in OPORD development. And of course be technically proficient and tactically as well. If you can master those skills you will be 99% ahead of your peers.