Leadership and deployments

2015-03-27T11:40:12-04:00

Should Senior NCOs and Senior Grade Officers have deployment time as requirement for career advancement?

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Mar 27 at 2015 11:41 AM

2015-03-27T11:41:35-04:00

Great to have the deployment experience, lends credibility to leadership. Unsustainable as a requirement through policy.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Mar 27 at 2015 11:50 AM

2015-03-27T11:50:17-04:00

While it would be nice to be able to have both deployment as well as garrison time under one's belt as a requirement, I do not see it as a sustainable requirement as there are times where we as a nation are in a period of peace for a long time and we will cycle through leadership that will not have had the opportunity to have deployed. Something we should not have done which I saw over the last 8-9 years of my career is promote individuals too quickly just because they have deployed, I know far too many individuals that while they may excel in field/deployment environments, can not lead/mentor/train at all in a garrison environment.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 11:53 AM

2015-03-27T11:53:33-04:00

No. I mean it sounds good, briefs well, but you and I know, a deployment does not make you a good leader.

This is a very good question though...It would, I feel, create a bigger divide in our force.

Response by Cpl Michael Strickler made Mar 27 at 2015 11:55 AM

2015-03-27T11:55:08-04:00

I do not know much of the process for what happens as an SNCO, but I do know that one of my platoon sergeants came to us from the drill field because he needed a b-billet to continue his advancement. I also remember having to deal with a lot of security forces transfers that really only had book knowledge of the average rifleman, though due to their time in grade were given leadership roles above the more experienced members in the unit.

For most of these instances we were not happy with the situations and always dreaded "breaking in the new guy." We had some instances of training to dig fighting holes when we should have been working on room clearing and urban patrolling, etc. Once most got comfortable everything usually was smooth sailing.

I guess my roundabout here is that I think all types of experience are important for leadership. It is always a struggle to "correct" the new LT when something is not happening the way it should and I can only imagine how much harder that would be for those super SNCOs.

Our higher ups should have a good bit of experience with not just deployments (hopefully some combat), but also with the logistical and admin sides as well. A Rambo is great in combat, but I would think he would not be as great at ensuring the S-1 shop does not run out of paper or that the battalions get their necessary briefings, etc.

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Mar 27 at 2015 11:56 AM

2015-03-27T11:56:11-04:00

A great thought, but under this ideal, everyone that served from the close of the Vietnam war to Desert Shield/Storm would not have advanced. After Desert Shield/Storm, the next major conflict was after 11 Sep 2001.... 10 years. While there were some smaller actions, they were considered more police actions in nature and may/may not be considered deployment....again, 10 year spread of (realistically) no career advancement. At SOME point in time, I suspect that we will go dormant for a period of years again.....(this would be MY hope anyway!)

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Mar 27 at 2015 11:59 AM

2015-03-27T11:59:55-04:00

I remember there being a significant issue 5 years into combat operations and having senior "slick sleeves" trying to manage operations while many of the first line supervisors were already "combat tested". My last trip into Afghanistan (2010-11) included a few SFCs with no deployment time. The experience was painful.

Still, the requirement is unsustainable in the absence of regular deployment opportunities. It used to be that the overseas tour filled that requirement (Germany, Korea, Alaska), and future stateside positions with Homeland Security may fill those gaps.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 27 at 2015 12:24 PM

2015-03-27T12:24:20-04:00

Good in theory, bad in practice.

Here's why. You don't choose where you go, the organization does.

As a first term'er, you get assigned "randomly" (needs of the Army/Marines/Navy/Air Force). During those first 4 years, you can end up an E5. During your second term, there's a pretty solid chance you select your duty station, lat-move into what you really want to do, or get selected into a "B-Billet" (recruiting, drill instructor, school house, etc). That's 8 years where you just weren't afforded an opportunity to deploy. At the 8 year mark, you are looking at E6 for many specialties (not all, but many). The following Term 8-12 is much like the second, except it is "voluntold" instead of "volunteered" and now you are looking at E6 and possibly even E7 (outlier).

Using my own experiences. I went to a "Victor" unit first. Did 2 deployments. There were 2 other people in my class (of 30~) that did. The rest went to Regt+ sized units, which were essentially non-deployable units. We had 2 females in my class, who couldn't even go to BN/MEU units at that time, which only left one overseas duty station for them. As you can see, things get "wonky" fast.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 1:04 PM

2015-03-27T13:04:37-04:00

Great responses. Although I do agree about the sustainability of such requirement I do believe (as someone stated in one of the responses) it brings credibility to the leadership level a Soldier/Marine/Airmen possesses. From the day we arrive to boot camp we are taught how to fight and negotiate obstacles in our careers. As someone stated in their response, ten years passed since desert storm/desert shield but given the time we have been involved in wars the last 14 years (no end in sight apparently) I think deployment by leadership will bring proven valuable experience to the new generation.

Response by SGT Tyler G. made Mar 27 at 2015 1:21 PM

2015-03-27T13:21:05-04:00

That would leave us holes in our leadership during peacetime. Deployment is a great experience to have as a leader, but it would make a terrible career requirement. We go where the military tells us, and not everybody gets the chance to deploy.

Response by MSgt Jim Pollock made Mar 27 at 2015 3:32 PM

2015-03-27T15:32:18-04:00

No. One does not choose if, when, or how many times they deploy. Advancement must be tied to factors within each individual's control.