Leaders vs Manager

SGM Luther Thomas — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 13:36:49 -0500

Recently I read an interesting article on the CEO of Linkedin. In the article he spoke about the difference between leaders and managers. He stated, "The key difference between managers and leaders is that managers tell people what to do, while leaders inspire them to do it."

Are you a leader or a manager?

Your thoughts?

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2014 2:18 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 14:18:00 -0500

CSM, I love the topic because leadership is a subject near and dear to me, both on the military and civilian side. There are times when different situations call for different styles of leadership. Managing isn't a bad thing per se if it's done correctly. Great leaders still need to manage people and processes effectively. There are times when leaders use a more of an assertive leadership style, ie combat or other time sensitive situations. The key for me is the situation. Great leaders know when to be assertive and when to inspire. When to take charge and when to give subordinates the freedom to come up with their own ideas.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2014 2:34 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 14:34:23 -0500

I'm always learning. From those above me and especially those under me. I've been told I'm a great leader. I can never really assess myself but I try to. I know I have faults. Everyone does. At my old age, I try to make things better before I leave. I owe the army a lifetime. It changed my life. I truly hope I have influenced the younger generation.

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Nov 17 at 2014 2:54 PM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 14:54:12 -0500

Great observation and difference statement. I would add a few more from "The Wall Street Journal Guide to Management" by Alan Murray, published by Harper Business:
- Managers maintain the status quo, leaders seek change and organizational improvement.
- The manager focuses on systems and structure, the leader focuses on people.
- The manager does things right, the leader does the right thing.
- The manager asks how and when, the leader asks what and why.
- The manager relies on control, the leader inspires trust.
- The manager has his/her eye always on the bottom line, the leader's eye is on the horizon.
- The manager has a short range view, the leader has a long range perspective.

Response by CSM Tony Bowen made Nov 17 at 2014 3:08 PM

CSM Tony Bowen — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 15:08:59 -0500

I once saw something posted somewhere that I always thought was my idea of the two.
On the Manager Post the Manager was riding on the sled while everyone else was pulling.
On the Leader Post the Leader was in front of the line pulling with the rest, the sled.

Response by SFC Dave Joslin made Nov 17 at 2014 10:16 PM

SFC Dave Joslin — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 22:16:47 -0500

CSM, I was thinking about this topic just the other day. Although there can be many answers to this question, and most of them would be relevant and accurate, I think there is a way to simplify this further:
You Manage a resource.
You Lead People.
Yes, I am aware that your staff is a resource, and when looking at the simplistic view of them as a resource, you manage them appropriately. But Leading, that is what you do FOR people (not TO). Leading an individual or a team, this is an active process that is only done to people!

I welcome thoughts and dialogue on this! Thank you,

Response by SFC Melker Johansson made Nov 17 at 2014 10:42 PM

SFC Melker Johansson — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 22:42:30 -0500

Neither, I'm afraid. I'm really good at my MOS specific duties, but leadership is something that I have always struggled with as it doesn't come natural to me. I'm Autistic and have significant impairments when it comes to the social interaction and executive functions required to effectively manage people. I wish that I could learn to become an effective leader, but my brain isn't wired for it.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2014 8:59 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:59:07 -0500

Both skill sets are absolutely required for success. I have heard people say, "I am not a manager, I'm a leader," and what I picture is someone who is behind on their subordinate evaluations, who loses leave forms, who doesn't turn in a workable training plan; in other words, someone who basically has lost track of the *business* of running a PLT, CO, BN, section, etc.

I dislike the sled image because it confuses people into thinking that doing as Joe does, rolling up your sleeves and digging the trench, is leadership. It 1000% is not. Leaders should meet the same standards (UCMJ, height/weight, moral, etc) as everyone else. Agreed. But leading from the front means being there, being aware, knowing the professional, physical, material, and personal challenges your subordinates face, and telling that story higher and gaining resources and support. It does NOT mean being Joe. Being Joe might make you well liked and might make Joe think you are doing a good job, but you are exactly the opposite of a leader. I think the image is trying to depict what I am saying, but I feel that it is vastly misinterpreted.

Response by Capt Brandon Charters made Nov 18 at 2014 10:02 PM

Capt Brandon Charters — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 22:02:50 -0500

SGM Luther Thomas Great read. Managers I served with on active duty put a task before a unit and watched them accomplish it because they were ordered to do so.
Leaders I served with would put a task before the unit, see the unit accomplish this goal, and then somehow everyone would still surge above and beyond because they carried a higher level of respect and purpose.
Leaders tell their team members what they mean to the mission no matter what the individual's strengths are. They ask what roadblocks can I remove to help us reach the goal. So many other differences to describe, but this is a great topic!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2014 11:00 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Nov 2014 11:00:43 -0500

CSM Luther Thomas, as a professional NCO I feel I am both a leader and manager. For the most part I am a leader inspiring and giving my Soldiers the motivation and desire to perform their tasks. But some days negative things (personal, professional etc.) impact the mission and I must revert to being a manager.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2015 6:56 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Jan 2015 06:56:59 -0500

I'd like to believe that I am a leader. I try my best to lead by example. I am usually the first one in and the last one out. I try to start off with "LET'S do this" vs "this is what you need to do". I make sure I am upholding the standards at all times. Now, on the flip side of this, we as leaders cannot ALWAYS do business the way we want. There are times I have to just tell people what to do and expect it to be done. But overall, I believe I care for my Soldiers and their well being, and I think that they do what needs to be done not just because I tell them what to do, but because they are loyal to me. I have had leaders that if they asked me to go on a mission with them that has a good chance of being dangerous and life threatening, I would only ask for a few minutes to get my gear and kiss the family. I have had others that I wouldn't put out if they were on fire unless ordered to do so. And quite a few in between. I'd like to say I have more Soldier's that rank me in the former category than the latter, but probably somewhere in between.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2015 7:08 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Jan 2015 07:08:17 -0500

Admiral Hopper said it best: "You don't manage people, you manage things. You lead people."

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2015 8:34 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Jan 2015 08:34:03 -0500

SGM Luther Thomas,

I am glad to have understood the difference early on in my career. I had excellent examples to emulate (one of which is CW5 Private RallyPoint Member). I am also fortunate to have been a certified Command Language Program “Manager” (CLPM) besides being a team “leader” at one point then a squad leader at another. I notice distinctly that I managed “things” and lead “people”. A crosswire is dangerous; with costs such as micromanaging and worse of all toxic leadership (I have seen those happen too: please don't ask :) Ultimately, we inspire others (not just subordinates by the way) but it is not a good idea to manage someone else's career. All great leaders are actually excellent managers; how else would they manage time or resources?

Nonetheless, we must not get caught up on “things” as LinkedIn’s CEO Jeff Weiner implied (chasing a bright shiny star) . Often times, I noticed leaders caught up on the reds on PowerPoints, Excel sheets, and statuses (numbers); they become so obsessed with making it “all green”. I’m glad you’re hearing this from the bottom of the ranks, CSM: This is exactly why subordinates misplace trust with credibility. By that I mean, sometimes I wish some leadership to entrust their people more than they would “systems”. What good is it to be renowned as “credible” but not trusted by my subordinates?

In my academic journey I learned that the most evident difference between management and leadership is that the first is oriented toward the present while the latter is future oriented (Toor 2011, 313) . Management is also concerned with numbers and portfolios alongside a higher likelihood to sacrificing empathy and sympathy in order to satisfy quantifiable results. Leadership on the other hand is about influencing people to want to struggle for common aspirations (Kouzes & Posner, 2012, 30) . In the U.S. Army the saying goes “leaders delegate authority and never responsibility”. Hence, leaders can delegate their authority through managing risks, training, and resources (a means to avoid micromanaging).

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References:

1. Nisen, M. (2013), LinkedIn CEO Jeff Weiner explains the difference between managers and leaders, http://www.businessinsider.com/linkedin-ceo-management-lessons-2013-12 (accessed January 8, 2015)
2. Toor, S. (2011). Differentiating leadership from management: an empirical investigation of leaders and managers." Leadership and Management in Engineering 11.4
3. Kouzes, J. M. & Posner, B. Z. (2012). The leadership challenge (5th ed.). Hoboken, NJ: John Wiley and Sons.

LinkedIn CEO Jeff Weiner Explains The Difference Between Managers And Leaders

Managers tell people what to do. Leaders inspire them to it.

Response by SP5 Michael Rathbun made Jan 8 at 2015 10:08 AM

SP5 Michael Rathbun — Thu, 08 Jan 2015 10:08:18 -0500

Waaay back when I was bucking for E-5, one of the SDB blocks of instruction was taught by that ol' Sarge who looked like he shaved with a blowtorch and had been around to get Sadsack off the train in WWII. Appearances can be deceiving.

Here is one thing that he taught that has been most valuable to me then and now:

"Management and Leadership are very different. You manage things, you lead people.

"If you try to manage people, you have to start treating them as things.

"Don't do that."

There was much more to this block than just that, but it neatly summarized a part of it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2015 1:27 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 01:27:04 -0500

Wow. Great area here. I recently just had a conversation with a CPT regarding this very same thing. I even went onto portray my thought that officers (already managers) learn how to lead through their NCOs while NCOs (already leaders) learn how to manage from from their officers. Great article and would love to see some follow up from this.