Should a command give troops a comp day after working 24 hours doing range operations and then dealing with a missing arms room item?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 May 2023 20:16:48 -0400

For a day of blank and live, day and night fires we reported at 0600. From there we did everything a got back to the company at 0200. Due to a arms room issue, (a missing item) we did not release until 0530. We were told to be back at 1300. Was this the correct call or should we just have been compensated the day for working about 24 hours?

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made May 3 at 2023 8:29 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Wed, 03 May 2023 20:29:33 -0400

They hol you long and so compensated you with at very late 1st call, don't whine- Command can regulate you day any way the have to.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2023 8:49 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 May 2023 20:49:21 -0400

One 24 hour day with a 1300 first call is fair, and I assume that day was over by 1630 or earlier.
I had more than a few days in garrison that went to 0200 or 0300 where the late call was 1000.
And seven months in theater where it was 1200 to 0400 seven days a week except for Xmas and Super Bowl.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made May 3 at 2023 8:58 PM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Wed, 03 May 2023 20:58:05 -0400

More details are needed. What day of the week was it? What time did you release after the 1300 muster? Having an afternoon muster isn't a bad idea. Gives you a chance to inventory equipment and people and see if something gets reported that was missed previously. I don't think I would have made the call but it's not something out of the norm or uncommon.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2023 9:30 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 May 2023 21:30:21 -0400

I have seen temptation in command teams to never try and stray too far from the norm, because, well, hell, I don't know, just because they think something bad will happen I suppose. There are certainly commanders and first sergeants who are looking out for their careers and make decisions with that frame of mind always at the front and center.

If what you're asking is, "in this example how best do we take care of our people while handling the demands of our mission?" then there's nothing wrong with either choice and context of what's due that week and what's currently going on in the BN will dictate the course of action. Obviously, the comp day provides more rest. But, maybe there's an opportunity for a quick AAR that didn't happen the day before. Maybe the command team sees Friday is just around the corner and thinks they can call a half day now and get the battalion command team sold on a three day weekend to make up for the long hours. Maybe there's just some things that have to get done and a comp day risks failure. You're right to see the tension. In leadership there is always tension. We should be disciplined, but generous. While there's a lot of right answers to this question, I think there's only one real wrong answer. And that would be brining everyone back in with the late work call because they didn't earn a comp day due to that missing item, or some other issue with yesterday's performance. We ought never take time from Soldiers in that spiteful sort of way.

But, if what you're asking is how long can we work ourselves and our Soldiers, then the answer is however it long it takes to get the mission done. Some divisions say people-first, but that's meant with a grain of salt. The mission is always first. If it's not, battles are lost and the effects lead to needless deaths. Hard stop. People-first means something more akin to "place others before yourself." Fleshing this out, I take that as don't sacrifice others for anything but the mission, don't beat people to a pulp with training and tasks for the sake of good metrics, and lastly balance out the demands of training and the need for readiness.

I'm probably speaking on several things you already know, but I hop this helps to connect some more dots.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2023 11:32 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 May 2023 11:32:35 -0400

Some have hit on it already, but what was done at 1300? Was there a purpose or mission that had to be completed at 1300 before COB? Or did y'all just sit/stand around doing absolutely nothing productive? Or doing something that could've been put off until the next day. I have personally seen this all too often in my career and sleep depriving Soldiers only negatively effects the morale and effectiveness of Soldiers, then have commanders scratching their heads as to why their retention rate is so low. I understand the whole people first aspect as well. But there is a lot of misconception with that. Yes the mission comes first, however, we as leaders need to ensure our Soldiers personal affairs are in order IOT be effective in the mission. For example, before a combat deployment. Soldiers are given time to take care of their personal lives with their families, finances and other things that might stress them out while they are away, so that they are mentally sound when they are deployed.

Leadership also need to understand and implement a work/life balance for their Soldiers. Just because you have the power and authority to keep your Soldiers there all day and night, doesn't necessarily mean you should. I have experience with past commanders that absolutely do not care about the morale and welfare of their Soldiers, only about numbers and stats and how they look as a commander to the BN or BDE IOT to receive a good OER. Counterproductive leadership always fails.

Response by SFC Kelly Fuerhoff made May 4 at 2023 12:38 PM

SFC Kelly Fuerhoff — Thu, 04 May 2023 12:38:00 -0400

It was the call your leadership made and is well within their rights to make. What they could do is potentially give the people who did that operation a comp day, possibly. If it was me, I'd find a way to give my soldiers some comp time if I couldn't give them it that next day.

You guys did get a late work call so at least they didn't say go straight back to work. I don't think anyone can say what they could have or should have done as we aren't in the situation.

Talk to your leadership to see if a comp day can be worked out.

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made May 5 at 2023 3:20 AM

MAJ Byron Oyler — Fri, 05 May 2023 03:20:58 -0400

The short answer is the government owns you, within reason, 24/7. This is within reason. The leader in me that has worked a ton of nights says you should get the next day off. It is not a comp day, you were away from home for 24hrs and unless someone is going to die, you need that day for yourself. Most people cannot drive home, do personal hygiene, and get reasonable sleep to make you a safe driver coming back. Your leadership must plan that if they are going to keep a group of soldiers for so long that they have a plan for a different group of soldiers for the tasks the next day. Part of the problem with this is I bet you did not have a field grade officer anywhere to be seen at 0300 or maybe any officer aware of this and the NCOs just felt this was ok because it has been done to them.