Landowner charged over killing of Cecil the lion. It's About Time, Don't You Think?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 23:15:08 -0400

One of my brother-in-laws is a big game hunter. He has hundreds of game mounts. A trip to Africa, with the kill is $27,000.00. I was interested in his hunting until I found out some of the big game are staged. All you have to do is kill the animal. It's not a sport, it's murder. I deer hunt but not with bait. I find ruts, hair, trails and I follow that. The killing of Cecil was a murder. I don't have any respect for anyone who kills animals with bait. This news report is short but at least something is being done about killing this animal illegally.

A Zimbabwean landowner has been charged with illegally allowing a Minnesota dentist to hunt and kill Cecil the lion last month.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/08/18/us-zimbabwe-wildlife-court-idUSKCN0QN1NX20150818

Zimbabwe court charges game park owner over illegal hunt of Cecil the lion

The game park owner accused of letting an American tourist illegally hunt and kill a lion on his property in Zimbabwe has been charged in connection with the killing and released on bail in Hwange, his lawyer said.

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Aug 19 at 2015 9:12 AM

Maj Chris Nelson — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 09:12:57 -0400

I have a co-worker that hunts Africa every 4-5 years. IF he pays $27,000 I would be very surprised...and he normally takes 5-8 animals every time. Now, he does hunt only the hoofed animals...no dangerous game. They set up on water holes....same type of "baiting" that any good deer, elk, and antelope hunter in the USA uses.... sit over food, water, or bed (or along the route to/from one of those). Deer and Bear, depending on where you are is baitable with food/feeders. I choose not to hunt over feeders, but that is MY choice. The hunter/dentist paid money for a lion hunt. I do not know if he was aware that 1. the lion was special to a few university type people, or 2. if he was aware that the landowner didn't have a permit for a hunt. Honestly, if I was that paying customer, I would assume that all the legal issues were addressed before I showed up (land permit, tags, etc). If the landowner was wrong, he was wrong. I actually wonder if Zimbabwe charged the landowner because he was illegally allowing the hunt OR was it because so many people got their panties in a wad??!!

Hunters pump TENS and HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of dollars every year into conservation and wildlife management programs both domestic and abroad. I know that I have supported over $100 each year over the last 6 years for my TAGS alone (and I have yet to successfully take an animal in these 6 years...hunting for me is fun, not about the kill). Those "save an animal/conservation" type people that are anti hunting...I would like to see how much money THEY donate and how much work THEY do every year for animals and conservation!! If I see trash in the woods, I pick it up. I am part of a system that helps ensure a strong herd, preventing over-population which causes disease and starvation. What are they doing? Not that much would be my guess. They just want to go out and see them next to the road when driving around.

Animals are food. Hunting and killing an animal is NOT murder. It is part of the circle of life, and has been since before time was measured...everyone/everything falls into some part of the food pyramid.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Aug 19 at 2015 9:39 AM

MSG Brad Sand — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 09:39:06 -0400

Every hamburger you eat is result of 'murder' by your definitions in this post. A lion was killed in Africa. So what? Lions die in Africa every day. This is not Africa and I have no idea about their laws but were you concerned about lions in Africa before you were spoon feed this story? I mean you are even related to a 'murder' and it does not seem you cared before you were told to be upset by an unknown group of people, with an undisclosed agenda? From everything I have read and seen the people of Zimbabwe do not care about this story and the ONLY reason they even care about it now is because of outside pressure.
Killing a lion is not murder because it is a lion. Naming a lion does not make it a person. It is fine if you do not respect the person that supports the Zimbabwe economy, because I don't either really but why is this even a story?
If there was any illegal actions taken, it was the landowner and it would be same as a poaching or hunting out season charge here in the States BUT it is not here in the States, it is Africa. It was not like the dentist from Minnesota was aware of the Zimbabwe hunting laws that is why he paid all that money to guide.
Keith, have you stopped and thought about how deeply concerned you are about poaching deer in your county? Are you looking to start helping the DNR agents in your area? Then why are you still caught up in this lie of a story? IF you were interested in lions in Africa before this story broke, disregard this post...if you were not, why are you now? My only question is why are we being distracted by this story? What are we not looking at because someone is creating the false outrage?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 10:21 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 10:21:39 -0400

It is impossible to murder an animal. Murder is the unlawful killing of another human. To apply that term to an animal trivializes human life.

Let's stop making a big deal out of nothing. I can't believe the harvesting of a mature lion (average lifespan of 10-14 years) ever made a blip on the radar of time, much less believe that people are still talking about it.

Response by SSG John Erny made Aug 19 at 2015 11:08 AM

SSG John Erny — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 11:08:24 -0400

A responsible hunter will obey the laws of the land and commit to a clean humane kill. Hunters provide a monetary resource to protect the over all population of game animals which in turn helps keep the entire ecosystem healthy. With out the income from hunters the cash may not be there to keep the land for wild life available, this being more true for poorer countries or in some cases US states. Nebraska does not have a huge tax base (population) to pull money from so revenue from hunting and fishing is very important.

Breaking hunting laws tend to carry very stiff fines and in some cases loss of hunting privileges and even jail time. The case with the dentist is a bit foggy. The dentist very well may not of known that the guide was committing a crime, but we do not know that for sure. Going to another nation to hunt will subject the hunter to the laws of that nation. One can go to Mexico to hunt with the right paper work and fee's; however, there is not a snowballs chance in hell of me doing it. Break one law or have one document missing and you have the chance of ending up in a Mexican jail. I can not imagine that an African jail is any better.

The Only place other than the US that I would even consider hunting in is Canada. Even then only with a guide and a gun provided by the guide. Moving a fire arm across national borders is just asking for trouble. If you are lucky you will get they “Rich American” treatment and fined till it hurts.

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Aug 19 at 2015 6:24 PM

PO2 Corey Ferretti — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 18:24:09 -0400

SGT Private RallyPoint Member You do understand that those hunts help fund conservation, also the meat that comes from the game killed goes to the local poor. But to say what happen in Africa was murder because there was bait is asinine. Well when i do go bear hunting i will use bait because i will be taking it with my bow and i need to be close. Also a argument can be made about those that hunt with guns instead of with a Bow.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Aug 19 at 2015 8:31 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 20:31:36 -0400

I think a day could come when there are no more wild animals and that would be sad, not only for the animals but also us. The world would be a far lonelier place without them, wouldn't it? Certainly a far less wondrous and beautiful one. Sadly, it's hard for me to get riled up over the killing of one lion when there are far greater crimes being perpetrated, crimes that a large percentage of We the People are willing to overlook, maybe even applaud. The murder of the Constitution comes to mind. I bet you can think of many others, can't you?

Response by SGT Joe Sabedra made Aug 19 at 2015 9:20 PM

SGT Joe Sabedra — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 21:20:19 -0400

The American supposedly thought he was leagal as he had a guide.
He can not be charged in the U.S. For a supposed crime he may or may not have commuted on another continent.

And we may oray not like what is going on in Africa it is not our place to get into the middle of it.

If you think we should then ask yourself if any other country should get in the middle of our domestic laws or issues.

This is being played out by activists.
In this case I only worry that he obeys our laws while in our country.
Be an Oath Keeper.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 10:31 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 22:31:02 -0400

Would whoever gave me a down vote be courteous enough to let me know why? I think it's pretty silly to get that worked up about about something you don't agree with.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 10:59 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 22:59:02 -0400

If using bait is wrong for hunting then is it also wrong for fishing? I see it as murder either way if the animal dies, either by your hand or from negligence, and you do not eat it. I'm not saying if your dog happens to die then eat them. I'm saying don't just kill for sport or attempt to hunt. If you shoot an animal and it doesn't immediately die, it just goes through the forest/living grounds and eventually bleeds out. That's murder to me because you failed to finish killing it and eat it. The animal suffered and died because you wouldn't track it down. As far as the bait thing goes, I would not call you a hunter at that point. I'd say a trapper more or less but I don't think it's wrong. The outcome is the same really so idk where I'd find it wrong necessarily

Response by TSgt Larry Abernathy made Aug 20 at 2015 12:30 AM

TSgt Larry Abernathy — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 00:30:42 -0400

I feel that you only need to hunt for something you plan to eat. Why would you want to kill something for any other reason? I have no issue with making a trophy out of the head of an animal you killed for food either. But to just kill it for saying you killed it isn't something I agree on. I also agree with what you say about the animals being staged. There's no sport in that. At least when I am deer hunting, the deer have a chance at getting away. That's what you call hunting. What your brother-in-law is doing is going to shoot something, not hunt it.

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Aug 24 at 2015 7:25 PM

TSgt Kenneth Ellis — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 19:25:01 -0400

Neither do I. But these hunts supply income which is used to hire game wardens to take down the poachers. Excuse me if I didn't call them by the right title.

Response by SFC Nikhil Kumra made Aug 24 at 2015 7:48 PM

SFC Nikhil Kumra — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 19:48:16 -0400

So... You have no respect for fishermen? .... Have never known one that doesn't use bait...

Response by CH (MAJ) Thomas Conner made Aug 24 at 2015 8:33 PM

CH (MAJ) Thomas Conner — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 20:33:56 -0400

Children are killed daily by their parents, or the parent's boyfriends or girlfriends; babies are aborted because the woman has the legal right to choose, with no regard to the desire of the biological father; and people continue to go hungry due to the state of the economy; yet we worry about of killing a lion is "murdrr" or sport?

Response by PO1 Matthew Murdock made Aug 24 at 2015 8:48 PM

PO1 Matthew Murdock — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 20:48:35 -0400

I'm so tired of hearing about this crap!!! Like everyone else has said it is a lion in Africa. It is a lion that will not hesitate to kill any human out there including those hippies that are all bent out of shape cause of it. The people in Africa are happy this lion is off the planet so they can go out at night.

Response by CH (MAJ) Thomas Conner made Aug 24 at 2015 9:02 PM

CH (MAJ) Thomas Conner — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 21:02:58 -0400

Every day babies are aborted, innocent children are maimed or killed in our streets, unemployment is horrible-forcing families to choose between eating, begging, or homelessness, yet there is more attention to a lion being killed?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2015 10:19 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 10:19:08 -0400

Hunting in Africa has an interesting history. When the Europeans tried to settle Africa they found that the local predators (lions and such) devastated the livestock herds so they hired local hunters to help control the predator population, that is until they found that outsiders would pay to harvest these beast.

As human population expands we have to manage wildlife population to maintain a ballance.

I know that many hunting areas in Africa do manage their wildlife. Think about it, this is business. People pay you to hunt, shoot, harvest these animals. You either manage and maintain you stock, or go bankrupt.

Personally I've hunted on three continents. While I have some expertise on the laws in some areas (Texas &Germany), I rely on the local outfitters to make sure everything is taken care of legally and legitimately.