JAG said I violated his 4th Amendment rights. What say you?

SMSgt Tony Barnes — Tue, 28 Jul 2015 13:05:22 -0400

JAG said I violated his 4th Amendment rights. What say you?

http://business.wikinut.com/1st-Sergeant-Perspective%3A-4th-Amendment-Rights-Violated/1gf2lc85/

1st Sergeant Perspective: 4th Amendment Rights Violated?

Joey was a hairs width away from being kicked out of the Air Force. While he was worth saving, did I violate his rights guaranteed in the 4th Amendment of the US Constitution? You be the judge...

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Jul 28 at 2015 1:15 PM

SGT Ben Keen — Tue, 28 Jul 2015 13:15:45 -0400

I would love to comment but the link is blocked here at work, guess I'll have to wait until I get home.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Jul 28 at 2015 1:41 PM

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Tue, 28 Jul 2015 13:41:56 -0400

SMSgt Tony Barnes Great read and great outcome. I stand behind the First Sergeant and his decision, but legally he could have had the whole thing thrown out. As a Commander I always checked with the JAG to make sure I had my T's crossed and I's dotted before I proceeded with any action against a soldier. I never had a case (court-martial or Articel 15 every rejected or overturned). Even though I totally agree with what happened and I applaud this 1SG, I feel he was lucky in this particular case. Sometimes things work out for the best. Just my opinion! Great Post!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2015 1:50 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Jul 2015 13:50:38 -0400

SUPER article SMSgt Tony Barnes, Is 1SGT like this that are the lifeline of the service.
Didn't t 1SGT have probable cause, he was told by the desk sergeant that members of his unit were drinking in the hotel room? Didn't the desk clerk give consent to enter the room when he passed the room number to the 1SGT?
From someone who served many moons ago...that's exactly how we would have handled the situation. (we weren't as PC back then).

Response by CMSgt Mark Schubert made Jul 28 at 2015 2:22 PM

CMSgt Mark Schubert — Tue, 28 Jul 2015 14:22:50 -0400

Great work 1st Sgt! Lucky? Well - I don't think it was "luck". I do think it was just as you said - keeping the INTENT of the law instead of the LETTER of the law! Yes - maybe (and I say maybe because rather than "unreasonable search without probable cause" I think it was more like a "reasonable search with probable cause") the case would have been different in court, but I think the JAG KNEW they had only a shred of a chance and that the actions you took were the right actions! God Bless you, SIR!

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jul 28 at 2015 2:44 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 28 Jul 2015 14:44:11 -0400

Leaders should use tough love, understand the constitution of a person, and when they have been punished enough. If they are worth salvaging, pick them up, dust them off, and send them on their way to redemption.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Jul 28 at 2015 3:19 PM

Capt Seid Waddell — Tue, 28 Jul 2015 15:19:20 -0400

Great success story!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2015 5:47 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Jul 2015 17:47:04 -0400

First, great article and I stand behind your decisions and GREAT final outcome. That is what Leaders should do.

There was a great deal of discussion regarding the 4th amendment when I went to Army Senior Leaders Course. A great deal of that was more focused on Soldiers living off base. There was some conversation about hotel parties, which were a huge problem when I went through AIT (Army's MOS schooling). The general consensus was that a Commander can give probable cause and, dependent on circumstance, a First Sergeant who is acting on behalf of the Commander can do so as well. There was a fine line between when that would be, but the given situation would be within that realm. If the MTL had gone without you or without Commanders approval, that would be a hard no. My Drill Sergeants got past that with a blanket order of authorization from the Commander 12 years ago. Don't know if that would still hold up.