ISIS recently captured Ramadi. What are the thoughts of those who deployed there? How do other OIF veterans feel about ISIS's gains in Iraq?

2015-05-19T13:50:40-04:00

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-takes-ramadi-islamic-state-secures-largest-military-victory-for-almost-a-year-as-last-government-troops-flee-anbar-state-capital-10256693.html

Isis has secured its biggest military victory in almost a year as Ramadi 'falls'

The Isis militant group is reported to have secured its biggest military victory in almost a year, capturing one of the last remaining districts of the major city of Ramadi.

Response by SFC A.M. Drake made May 19 at 2015 2:16 PM

2015-05-19T14:16:00-04:00

Are we stretched to thin! Did we know this was coming? Where is the coalition is regards to Ramadi? Just curious

Response by SPC Donald Cook made May 19 at 2015 2:32 PM

2015-05-19T14:32:02-04:00

Posses off.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2015 2:47 PM

2015-05-19T14:47:31-04:00

Like we did not finish the job correctly the first time and was told to leave to early.

Response by SFC Douglas Duckett made May 19 at 2015 3:03 PM

2015-05-19T15:03:21-04:00

I wasted a year of my life in that hellhole of a city (2003-2004) for no good reason. They wanted to fight us all day long, but throw a couple of ISIS fighters their way and ......

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2015 3:20 PM

2015-05-19T15:20:42-04:00

We know about the problem, we know what the possible solutions are. Have we done anything to really thwart the problem? No we havent. i know im probably going to get some comments saying im crazy but its time to stop the draw down and push full into iraq and establish a permanent presense there

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2015 4:02 PM

2015-05-19T16:02:24-04:00

To take the "defeat" of Ramadi to heart is hard for me. To say I care but I don't, and I believe I have skin in the game to say so. I was there from late 04-mid 05 (Camp Corrigador/Combat Outpost) then again mid 06-to early 08 (112 MiTT Camp Ranger/Corrigador). I've spent time there and know a large part of the city. I patched up Soldiers and Marines to include Frogman and ODAs. I've seat for weeks out in the middle of the city taking marksman fire daily, to sitting in the edge of the city in Solphia and Juwaba for months at a time running intel driven ops with Iraqi's with very little American support. I've drank the water, ate food from vendors, and purchased sheep for my Iraqi counterparts to eat during my longer stints away from US service support. I'm not sure if the Iraqi BN is still there that I was apart of. My second trip there for 15 months I lived within their walls learning more about them then I was able to teach.
I took a Iraqi Infantry BN from having one medic to running their own aidstation that received combat and non-battle injury casualties.
I've ran down many alleys there, bounced over numerous curbs, and brought in over 300 soccer balls to hand out to the kids around there that was shipped by my family.
I seen the Sunni Awaking first hand helping out Sheik Jossum
I assisted in demolishing the Ramadi Hotel, establishing over 6 water facilities with 23 new wells, and closed down a FOB.
I've seen 12 VBIEDs hit our small AO in a 28 day period that was catastrophic to us, and never knew of how many were looking for a target.
I've detained numerous people and engaged many individuals with several different weapon types.
Destroyed homes, vehicles, and lives off of someone's command that was miles away.
We worked within the city and the BN to get things to, what they say is an "American Standard", just to hear it all failed time and time again.
The Iraqi medical PSG still emailed me up until 2009 or 2010. He was concerned for me being in Afghanistan and at that time said Iraq and Ramadi were doing well.
Hummm... how times have changed...

Response by SGT James Elphick made May 19 at 2015 4:04 PM

2015-05-19T16:04:01-04:00

The Iraqi Army is weak (no surprise there) and it is terrible to see our gains go to waste. However, it would also be terrible to see ourselves stuck in Iraq for another decade. My personal preference of action? Deploy a MEU and the GRF to bolster the forces already on the ground, drive through Ramadi, Mosul, and everywhere else until we are on line at the Syrian border. Then hand the now pacified situation back to the Iraqi's while leaving a residual force (a battalion of infantry plus SF units should suffice) to kick ISIS in the nuts if they come back across the border and to shore up the Iraqi's while they sort out their own problems. I think the whole assault phase should only last 90 days tops (wouldn't even need Congressional approval then) and things would look much better.

Response by SGT(P) Anthony Nestor made May 19 at 2015 4:26 PM

2015-05-19T16:26:56-04:00

There was a reason to be there; however, the time spent and the investment made did not suffice. We are viewed globally as a "police force" (for all intensive proposes), and we have been for a while now. What is it going to take for other countries to share the weight the U.S. hauls and work together as a "coalition" to improve the world.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2015 5:11 PM

2015-05-19T17:11:59-04:00

To discuss whether we should have gone to Iraq in the first place or not is just beating a dead horse at this point. Those who opposed the move will continue to do so, and those who supported it will do the same. What bothers me is that now everything we worked for while we were there has gone completely to shit. I was at Speicher, in the Tikrit area, doing route clearance. One of the places we saw most of our action was Bajii. ISIS now controls all of that area. I had a lot of buddies who did time in Ramadi, which as this article points out, now belongs to ISIS as well. We can't say they aren't a threat, when they've repeatedly said they intend to attack us, on our own soil. They've claimed responsibility for the shooting in Garland (not that it worked out real well for them). So, the way I see it, we can wait for them to come to us, maybe it happens, maybe it doesn't, but if it does, how many people will we lose? How many is too many? Or, we can sack up, kick the piss out of them before they have a chance to come over here, then call it a day and come home. No need for another occupation as both of the countries most heavily affected by these clowns have sitting governments, not our fault their armies are compromised of cowards.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2015 5:28 PM

2015-05-19T17:28:16-04:00

I wasn't surprised to see isil gain so much territory in Iraq. But at some point those people will have to stand up and fight for themselves. We can't keep sacrificing our fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, sons and daughters on a country no one living there feels is worth defending for themselves. I've seen a spark or two of heart since isil stormed through and I believe some over there are starting to get the idea. But patriotism and nationalism are not things you can just give a people that have never felt them, it's a feeling that has to grow on its own. We just need to let it grow before bull rushing back in.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2015 5:53 PM

2015-05-19T17:53:56-04:00

I knew it was coming.... We were not do what was needed to be done, we were only allowed to do what was popular here back home. I hate when the very people we protect complain about how we do it.

Response by PO2 Josh Rymer made May 19 at 2015 7:56 PM

2015-05-19T19:56:08-04:00

I wasn't in ramadi personally, but I have friends that were. I was stationed in balad, and did a few jobs and Kirkuk, and turkrit. And just to see how much Americans and nato forces have put into building up and maintaining and securing those bases and the communities around them is amazing. And all I can think about is all the sacrifices that were made for that peice of ground and what it meant to the people around it. But I am not agreeing with the war in Iraq, but I can't help think of the people around the areas that have been captured, and the living hell they are going through today. I would be happy if isis had never been formed but I think with the early release of Al Baghdadi, it is kind of our fault, and by our I mean the obama administration. But we don't live in a peaceful world, and probably never will, but what would it hurt to act peaceful, and love one another, but I usually get off topic and start ranting but I love you all and God bless

Response by CPO Greg Frazho made May 20 at 2015 12:03 AM

2015-05-20T00:03:16-04:00

Ramadi's always been a hotbed of political interest both for friend and foe of the Sunni tribes. It's also been the scene of some very heavy fighting over the last decade and some change, albeit on and off.

If the reports are true and accurate, Iraq has some serious soul-searching to do. But if they respond the way their forces are reported to, they're in deep shit. By extension, so are we.

Response by SGT Frank Leonardo made May 20 at 2015 2:14 AM

2015-05-20T02:14:30-04:00

I was not to far from ramadi and had fellow troops at ramadi. I hate to see that it has run,over after what we did

Response by CW4 Kelvin Holt made May 20 at 2015 10:17 AM

2015-05-20T10:17:24-04:00

Never served in Ramadi, I spent my time in Baghdad / Taji / Tallil and parts east but every time I see footage of Iraqi forces running away or hear of them abandoning their equipment, or that another city has fallen to ISIS I am filled with disgust. Now granted, I don't know the Iraqi forces logistics, how well-equipped they are or their unique struggles right now but I do know that the current situation sucks.

I try to imagine a similar sized American city being overtaken by a band of thugs and no matter how I play it out the American response is always different, we simply would not stand for it If the military and law enforcement couldn't take the city back then the citizens would do it either with or without military & law enforcement help, it's just the American way. Granted, American values are NOT Iraqi values but I do know that the the Iraqi citizens outnumber ISIS.

American forces have spent years training various Iraqi military and security forces but they cannot teach National Pride, they have to WANT their country back, and then TAKE IT BACK! Dangerous, sure, will people die, surely, but something hard won, like freedom, is more cherished.

Response by LTC Kathleen Maddox made May 20 at 2015 11:52 AM

2015-05-20T11:52:46-04:00

I did not serve there but my son did. I feel that it is a tragedy that we lost any of our Soldiers there and if we went back it would mean loosing more son's and daughter's. They are not worth that sacrifice

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 1:32 PM

2015-05-27T13:32:52-04:00

good for the sunni. bad for us (US). but the real fact of the matter is that none of the sides fighting have been able to hold areas that are the same religious group as they are. Daesh (ISIS) has only been able to take areas that are majority Sunni arab. same with the Iraqi (Shia) army. they only fight in areas that are majority Shiite. if it is a majority Sunni with a large population they can't and won't fight to hold it. same with the Kurds (Sunni). even in Syria this is true. as Asad govt is only holding mostly coastal areas with majority Shiite areas.

it seem the local ppl on the ground for each groups have drawn their borders. We in the US just fail to look at the plain facts.

Iraq and syria are like the former fake country in Europe. that country being Yugoslav. we need to look for the same type of solution.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made May 28 at 2015 3:18 PM

2015-05-28T15:18:52-04:00

STRATFOR: Reflections on Ramadi

Editor's Note: This analysis was written by Stratfor's lead military analyst, Paul Floyd, who served in the U.S. Army's 75th Ranger Regiment, a core component of the United States Army Special Operations Command. He deployed multiple times to Iraq and Afghanistan in a combat role.

The Iraqi city of Ramadi has fallen again into the hands of the Islamic State, a group born of al Qaeda in Iraq. That this terrorist organization, whose brutality needs no description, has retaken a city once fought for by American soldiers troubles me. I served two deployments in Ramadi, fighting al Qaeda. Comrades died in that fight. I was shot in Ramadi. My initial reaction, like that of many veterans, is to ask what the hell it was all for, when nothing seems to change. The whole endeavor was a costly bloodletting and it seems the price we paid yielded no actual benefit. Yet, Memorial Day is as much a day for reflection as it is for remembrance and commemoration. And in reflecting, I have had to sit back and define exactly what we are memorializing on this day.

Memorial Day is about honoring those who died fighting for our country. Often those memories — and the honor we attribute — are anchored to a specific place. It makes sense: soldiers fight and die in a physical, tangible environment. Invariably somewhere that is far from home. Human nature makes us hold onto that tangibility for memory. Okinawa, Antietam, the Chosin Reservoir, Ia Drang and Belleau Wood are just a handful of names that evoke the weight of battles long since past. I have a reverence for those names, those places. We all do to a point: We bestow these places with an unconscious solemnity based on how many died there. As imperfect as it is, this is the way we measure any particular fight. Certain places become emblematic, normally where the fighting was at its most ferocious. I am often asked where I was wounded. I always respond Ramadi, though technically it was in the middle of farmland between Ramadi and Fallujah. Giving the technical answer, however, loses something in translation. Saying Ramadi instills a sense of significance in people's minds. Our mission that day was a function of what started in the city, but had spilled out into the periphery.

Memorializing a place because of the weight associated with it is problematic on two fronts — it sets up a partial fallacy while ignoring what I believe to be another critical component that is often overlooked: Time.

The partial fallacy is in how we tie the significance of a soldier's last valiant action to the place where it happened. A soldier might die taking or defending a critical hill, for example, but they do not lay down their life just for the hill. No one joins the military to fight for a specific piece of terrain, city or inanimate object. We join to serve our country, which is accomplished by finishing the missions we are called upon to take. Viewing warfare as an extension of diplomacy by other means, soldiers are the ultimate executors of the national political will. A specific mission may well include the taking of a particular hill, but the soldier is not there for that specific piece of ground. They are there because the mission required them to be.

The other component we ignore is time. Once death is attached to a place and its significance established in our minds, it is meaningful from then on. It is hard to think of a permanent, physical place as having only temporary relevance in time when blood has been spilt there. There is a reason why the World War I battlefields of a century ago have such special relevance. The problem is, holding permanent unyielding sentiment for a place can override better judgment.

I ruminate on all of this when I hear calls to reintroduce U.S. combat troops to Iraq because of recent events in Ramadi. Many of the justifications for such action are not centered on military strategy, U.S. foreign policy or what would be best for Iraq. Instead, they are invoked by the fact that American lives were spent to win Ramadi in the past. The question remains: If Ramadi is back in the hands of militants, what did American soldiers die for in the first place?

My initial thoughts were informed by that exact reasoning. However, further questions immediately sprang to mind. I settled on two. Does the enemy's taking of a place that people died fighting for disparage their memory, and, should we let it influence our actions? For the first question I concluded no, though it is painful. The soldiers who gave their lives accomplishing a mission had an effect. Those effects were not limited to a single place. Wars are waged over an area and influenced by all the infinite actions that occur in that space at that time in history. An enemy's success in the present, even if it is in that same place, does not take away from a soldier's effect in the past. In this light, I find it hard to justify sending more soldiers to fight, where some will inevitably die, solely in an effort to protect the memories of those already dead.

Those memories do not need physical protection. This is why we have a day like today. Memorial Day is our formal acknowledgement of our comrade's sacrifice. We remember their actions and their willingness to give all to accomplish the mission. These memories are of course tied to place, but it should not be the defining feature. What happens now in a location such as Ramadi does not debase the past actions of those that fell there. They defined themselves outside of place, in service to country, and that is what I personally want to memorialize.

"Reflections on Ramadi is republished with permission of Stratfor."

Response by CSM Donald McGlasson made Jul 13 at 2020 7:58 PM

2020-07-13T19:58:02-04:00

That dark night in December 2011 I stood on the Iraq/Kuwait border watching one of the last conveys heading south, that Obama ordered, and knew it was not only a mistake but it would cause the vacuum to allow just this thing. When I was deployed to Iraq in 2005, I believed we were doing something positive and necessary, too bad we let the PC commanders (Petraeus) and politicians get involved.