Is West Point A Deciding factor when getting promoted to BG/MG/LTG?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Oct 2016 20:47:17 -0400

Opinions!

Response by SPC(P) Patrick Westbrook made Oct 20 at 2016 8:47 PM

SPC(P) Patrick Westbrook — Thu, 20 Oct 2016 20:47:57 -0400

It shouldn't be, should be based upon experience, shown competency to get past MAJ.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Oct 20 at 2016 9:11 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Thu, 20 Oct 2016 21:11:37 -0400

There's actually an inverse correlation between longevity between Commission type. Acadamy Graduates stay in the shortest (on average). OCS stay the longest. ROTC are "middle."

Of the last few Army Chiefs of Staff, we've had about equal USMA and ROTC grads.

ROTC: Generals Milley, Schoomaker, Casey
USMA: Generals Odierno, Dempsey, Shinseki

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Oct 20 at 2016 10:40 PM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Thu, 20 Oct 2016 22:40:19 -0400

I don't think it is

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2016 7:08 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Oct 2016 07:08:50 -0400

Historically we've had a fair amount of Officers who have lead in major battles or wars who were graduates of West Point. I don't know if that's a factor though.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2016 7:29 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Oct 2016 07:29:16 -0400

IMHO...Remember at that level it is significantly political...appointed by the CinC and ratified by the Senate...so all things being equal, it may or may not...All Officers at the MAJ/LTC level must obtain a Masters Degree either through TA, through ILE or were selected for advanced schooling...I know in the Medical Service Corps they favor Baylor Graduates...our leaders pushed it heavily in every MSC professional development conference I ever attended...I know there are ring knockers out there, so if two candidates side by side had the same qualifications but the only difference was USMA...A ring knocker would select the candidate from USMA...so in my opinion there is some bias in selection...but I also believe that performance would trump everything. I was none of the above...no ROTC, no Academy, no OCS...I spent the first 16 years as Enlisted then received a Direct Commission in the AMEDD.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Oct 21 at 2016 11:39 AM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Fri, 21 Oct 2016 11:39:27 -0400

In the USAF being a grad of USAFA is a definite plus for promotion and assignments. It may have a lot to do with the type of personality necessary to succeed at a military academy, a Service tradition, a "good ol' boys" group of USAFA grads, or all three. I've posted here that after a couple of months you couldn't tell if a pilot training student came from USAFA, ROTC, or OCS. They all passed or failed flight school in about equal numbers in my experience. The differences tend to show up after they get to the Squadrons. They have shared common experiences with other USAFA grads that are completely outside the sphere of other officers. Consequently, they form a subgroup of officers in every specialty and unit. It's not necessarily bad, just a fact. I haven't done the research, but I suspect that the number of USAFA grads becoming GOs in disproportionately high compared to their numbers in subordinate grades. Again, not necessarily bad. The USAFA purposely educates its students to be the future senior leaders of the Air Force. It's built into their thinking upon graduation that one day one of them will be Chief of Staff of the Air Force. Is it a deciding factor, probably not, but it can be a tie-braker when it comes to promotion or key assignments. If two officers are being considered for aide to a MAJCOM commander, a career changing assignment, and one is an Academy grad and the other isn't, the Academy grad may have a slight edge over the other officer. This is especially true if the General is an Academy grad. Once the opportunity is presented, then performance will determine how much the officer benefits from the assignment.

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made Oct 21 at 2016 3:56 PM

SFC Joseph Weber — Fri, 21 Oct 2016 15:56:32 -0400

Who Cares?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2016 5:55 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Oct 2016 17:55:21 -0400

all I can say is if my cousin hadn't decided to retire when he did and not turned down his promo to BG and being a graduate of West Point he would have gone to be even bigger, going to West Point is definitally a feather in your cap

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2016 7:52 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 07:52:16 -0400

Generals make generals. Currently, GEN O's team is at play with GEN Milley leading the bunch. Within a year, there will be a drastic change because GEN Milley will be able to place his team in position.

To answer your question, yes, offices commissioned through West Point have a greater chance of becoming a flag officer. Go to gomo.army.mil and look at the GOs resume.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2016 8:33 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 08:33:36 -0400

West Point isn't usually a deciding fact. General officers tend to have extraordinary careers either going through Ranger School, SAMS or other special military schools separating themselves from their peers early in their careers.
West Pointers might appear to be high for a couple of factors their selection process is to enroll the best possible people, people who enroll also plan on some type of military career and also being ingrained in a military culture early on they know what it takes to have a successful military career.

Response by CH (COL) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2016 8:45 AM

CH (COL) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 08:45:26 -0400

No. By the time you get to that level it's a matter of what you've DONE. Now, there have been a lot of studies that DO show that commissioning sources have a tendency to do better at different times in their careers (OCS make great company level officers but due to their ages they tend to retire at Major or LTC. ROTC do well after they've learned the culture better and picked up some experience at CPT-LTC but retire in larger numbers at LTC and COL. Academy grads do make up a larger proportion of flag officers, but it's because you can't make them retire with a baseball bat). However, there are PLENTY of exceptions to this because it's about individuals not commissioning sources.

Response by MAJ Mark N. made Oct 25 at 2016 10:08 AM

MAJ Mark N. — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 10:08:59 -0400

Although everyone can cite numerous examples, one must accept the fact that West Point officers are generally a cut above the average ROTC/OCS grad (and this is coming from a ROTC product). But cut above, I mean in order to get into USMA, they must have already shown a great deal of leadership and academic stills. Additionally, all WP Officers are engineers first - and the Army thrives on linear thinking. And finally, yes, there is a slight degree of the "good old boy" networking going on. Not bitter, it's just part of Army lore.
(BTW: from my experience, "special schools" don't make a huge difference. I had Ranger, ABN, AA, CGSC, two Master's degrees, combat deployment and above center mass OER's, and was still shown the door by leaving my branch for functional area).