Is this a case of Stolen Valor or Mental Illness

2015-01-25T01:16:49-05:00

While reading through the pages of a site exposing phonies, I began reading about this particular individual. After reading it (once you read it, it's early to figure out his det cord isn't getting a charge.

So, all joking aside, with some of these cases brought up...could there be more of a mental illness issue vs a Stolen Valor charge?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2015 4:47 AM

2015-01-25T04:47:27-05:00

I'm just going to say that from his photos, it looks as though his fire isn't getting much oxygen.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2015 1:31 PM

2015-01-25T13:31:44-05:00

He may have been suffering from a lack of identity or has confidence issues. Similar to wanting his 15 minutes of fame.

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Jan 25 at 2015 3:29 PM

2015-01-25T15:29:44-05:00

A few thoughts:
- Individuals who falsely pose as military or former military should be treated (ideally this means prosecuted) on a case by case basis. Not all fakers are mentally ill and not all mentally ill are fakers.
- Stolen Valor laws are currently limited because they supposedly intruded on a person's first amendment rights and because fakers are not obtaining anything of value. The former is debatable while the latter is proveable false.
- Unless/until we get better laws against fakers then our best tools are confrontation (legally and non violently), public shaming, and public education.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2015 9:00 PM

2015-01-25T21:00:02-05:00

I had a contractor that worked for me that I believe was a faker. I contacted a friend in the Air Force and OSI investigated. The fact they investigated and contacted me pretty much confirmed my suspicion given that if he was military, no investigation required. This fine human being seemed like he wanted attention --- did not seem mentally disturbed.

Response by SFC Collin McMillion made Jan 25 at 2015 9:36 PM

2015-01-25T21:36:45-05:00

I have no idea what the problem is with this guy,but I don't think "Stolen Valor" would cover it, there really seems that this individual have serious problems. He has more decorations on him than my Christmas tree, and from what I can see served in more branches than my tree has.

Response by SFC Collin McMillion made Jan 25 at 2015 9:59 PM

2015-01-25T21:59:00-05:00

I do realize "Stolen Valor" is a big issue, but I also think anyone guilty of this "does" have mental issues, weather it's that they don't feel manly enough, need reconization for some type of fulfillment, or trying to get something they don't deserve. I know far too many who should have been recognized ized for their actions who were not and too many orderly room clerks who just happened to be able to get a paper signed. Though to me it is a personal insult, I don't think I could call these people out on this for fear of causing further mental damage. I think I have to look at the "cause and effect" theory. Sure some should be punished, but how much time, money, and other resources should we apply to this?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 12:26 PM

2015-01-26T12:26:18-05:00

A lot of these people are mentally ill, and, as such, have my pity and not my rage. Some are opportunists, but need help.

Lastly, I think people get too wrapped around the axle about these things. Why let someone like this bring out such ire? I don't get it. He was held accountable. He paid for his "crime." Stolen Valor? Please. It's a joke of a law.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 2:20 PM

2015-01-26T14:20:59-05:00

I guess that mental illness could be a good jusification in regards to one impersonating a service member, however, if we get used to labeling those people, the bad people that due impersonate Soldiers could very well use that as an excuse as opposed to just trying to get over.

So i would say no to letting the mental ill, or normal people impersonating Soldiers be seperated and kept with one standard criminal injustice.

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 3:00 AM

2015-01-27T03:00:42-05:00

Thank you all for your responses. I didn't want to lean one way or the other, but was curious as to the responses I would get.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 11:56 PM

2015-01-29T23:56:04-05:00

IMO, if you want to wear it, EARN it!

They know what those inexpensive pieces of ribbon indicate. Most know what one has to accomplish to earn them. Better yet, they have the proper understanding and knowledge to know what the ribbons/ service medals truly mean with or without some so called "illness". Therefore! If they can comprehend all of that then they can comprehend the fact that they are stealing valor that many die to achieve. Putting an "illness" or "mental disorder" on these guys is simply an excuse for them to get away with it.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 12:14 AM

2015-01-30T00:14:29-05:00

I think he is mentally ill. He looks so sad.

Response by SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. made Feb 1 at 2015 11:14 AM

2015-02-01T11:14:07-05:00

To quote Vickie Lawrence, from the old Carol Burnett show, this guy has splinters in the windmill of his mind.

Response by MSgt Dayton (Tony) Calhoun made Feb 1 at 2015 1:28 PM

2015-02-01T13:28:03-05:00

Looking at these photos it was clear to me right away this guy is not well

Response by SP5 Michael Rathbun made Feb 1 at 2015 1:49 PM

2015-02-01T13:49:56-05:00

Thinking about the late Mr Androsky's motivations and methods, it is hard to find signs of informed, rational behavior.

What sane person would subject a sartorial mishegoss like that pictured above to scrutiny by knowledgeable military persons at a ceremony on a military facility? MUCH better to target untutored masses of civilians.

Response by PFC Scott Edelman made Feb 3 at 2015 4:42 PM

2015-02-03T16:42:05-05:00

I've seen that picture before, A vet showed it to me while I was operating an elevator, Hmmmm looks a little to young to have that stack or ribbons but who knows maybe he earned them in the Girl Scouts brigade

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 9:30 PM

2015-02-04T21:30:39-05:00

WOW..

Response by PO2 Thomas J. made Feb 5 at 2015 4:50 PM

2015-02-05T16:50:46-05:00

Most use stolen Valor for financial gain, such as the douchebag in Ohio spotted on black Friday shopping in a Ranger uniform he hadn't earned with combat badges on the uniform he had not earned, just so he could obtain a military discount on top of black Friday deals. There's several viral videos online showing these individuals being called out. I personally believe they belong in a federal correctional facility or pushed from an aircraft over IS held territory and told- pull the cord and when you hit the ground, run fast if you want to keep keep your head.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 4:54 PM

2015-02-05T16:54:58-05:00

Its probably both.

Response by MSG Scott McBride made Feb 5 at 2015 5:59 PM

2015-02-05T17:59:47-05:00

I'm sorry, that picture is a joke. There is no way someone is that stupid.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Feb 5 at 2015 6:01 PM

2015-02-05T18:01:56-05:00

It is stolen mental valor illness. This yoyo was in the air force so he should know better.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 7:45 PM

2015-02-05T19:45:15-05:00

1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member, I think nearly every case of Stolen Valor equates to SOME form of mental illness. You can equate it to depression and a skewed self-image (in trying to make people look better), then you have the narcissist (trying to bring the focus to himself).

A group that I volunteer for locally has a gentleman that has schizo-affective disorder or some type of mental illness and honestly believes that he was in the 82nd Airborne at Fort Campbell (no....not a typo). He started trying to call out a buddy of mine who is an A1C for "not having his cover on indoors" and my blood pressure spiked and I was ready to jump down his throat for being ate up when I got the "wave off" from my friend. That was when he told me about the schizoaffective disorder.

These are honestly entirely done to bring some sort of focus to themselves or a benefit to themselves. Most are so ridiculously overdone that they have no credibility and as such are more the brunt of humor and irritated stares than harm.

The ones that piss me off are the stolen valor cases that use it to obtain benefits and coerce the system. These people could fall under a borderline personality disorder, or even sociopaths in extreme cases. They don't care that they are taking money from people that need it, or that they are generating some degree of skepticism in the general population with regards to overall disabled veterans.

There are a VERY small number of people that could be so desperate that they think lying about their service is the only way to get help. These are generally homeless people or those that are in danger of losing their homes. And the sad thing is....they can be right too, as many social services are so underfunded and overwhelmed that getting help can be a challenge.

That doesn't necessarily excuse them. I think it should be evaluated on "what did they gain?" Those defrauding the system to obtain financial gain should absolutely be prosecuted to the fullest extent. Those that are just simple clowns like this one and some of the "MSG/CSM/GEN" that are just simply too ridiculous to be given ANY credibility.
v/r,
CPT Butler

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 8:47 PM

2015-02-05T20:47:09-05:00

I certainly don't condone stolen valor but one look at this guy and you can see he's got bigger issues than that going on. I think we need to distinguish between the crazies and those wanting to inflate their service record.

Response by SSG Andrew Neeb made Feb 6 at 2015 11:03 AM

2015-02-06T11:03:09-05:00

Certain types of mental disorders are very serious, and reality for them is whatever their delusional minds are cycling at any given time. It is often a horrifying and humiliating experience for the victims. Taking offense from a mentally ill person is no different from taking offense from a 4 year old who dresses up as a soldier for Halloween. If this poor young man did in fact end up committing suicide, then it is probably safe to say that he suffered greatly enough from his illness, and he should be allowed to rest in peace.

If we are going to call out acts of stolen valor, then let's focus on the those who honestly deserve retribution.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 5:22 PM

2015-02-06T17:22:18-05:00

At the end of the day and the way the Stolen Valor Act is written; It is only considered Stolen Valor if done so for personal gain. Unless he has attempted to gain something from the act, its just freedom of speech.

Response by SSG Sean Garcia made Feb 6 at 2015 7:18 PM

2015-02-06T19:18:09-05:00

Those that are guilty should be given an psych evaluation. If found of sound and mind, tried to the fullest extent of the law.

If found not of sound and mind, then they should serve time in a facility in order to give them a better understanding of their actions

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Apr 15 at 2015 12:01 PM

2015-04-15T12:01:33-04:00

Would it be fair to say that Stolen Valor IS a Mental Illness?

Response by Cpl Petrus Romanus made Jun 11 at 2015 10:50 PM

2015-06-11T22:50:04-04:00

Im pretty sure I was in USMC bootcamp with this guy, and he got das boot for being a fraud, he said his dad was some Major General or some crap , then he was congress, always lying.

Response by SFC Tim Drye made Nov 11 at 2015 8:42 PM

2015-11-11T20:42:36-05:00

Clearly this young man has some type of mental issue. If it were a simple case of stolen Valor I believe he would be a little more discreet. He would at least wear badges from the same branch of service

Response by SSG Jesse Cheadle made Mar 8 at 2016 11:02 PM

2016-03-08T23:02:37-05:00

Both. The story is whack! He arrived to my old BN CSM's BCT at Benning. It was hilarious. He was reportedly married to the mother of a recruit there. The story gets much worse. But, the DS's sure got a hold of him and the MP's too.

Response by PFC Jason Hawkins made Apr 20 at 2017 4:30 PM

2017-04-20T16:30:17-04:00

Stolen illness or mental valor, its still up in the air

Response by PO2 Seth Morgan made Mar 15 at 2018 10:21 PM

2018-03-15T22:21:22-04:00

Forget mental illness, this guy needs to get chiropractic care for that big lean from all those medals weighing him down on that one side.

Response by PO2 Seth Morgan made Mar 15 at 2018 10:23 PM

2018-03-15T22:23:06-04:00

But they will excuse murder if u are mentally ill or temporarily mentally ill

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 16 at 2018 3:30 PM

2018-03-16T15:30:12-04:00

That is for a court to decide- you just press the charges!

Response by SCPO Edward DeAngelis made Mar 18 at 2018 4:34 PM

2018-03-18T16:34:34-04:00

The Air Force probably gave the medals to him

Response by SFC Vernon McNabb made Mar 18 at 2018 5:25 PM

2018-03-18T17:25:44-04:00

He's gotta be crazy to think anyone with intelligence would fall for this PX Ranger.

Response by CH (LTC) Robert Leroe made Mar 18 at 2018 5:47 PM

2018-03-18T17:47:48-04:00

Looks like someone spent all their allowance at the local Army/Navy store.

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Sep 2 at 2018 8:23 PM

2018-09-02T20:23:45-04:00

I lean more towards mental illness. While I think there are far more phony vets who either claim to have or exaggerate their military service than those who suffer from some level of delusion, the individual pictured above looks like a loser who knows he is one. I think the law should, if it doesn't already, distinguish between those who merely claim to be something they are not and those who do so with the intent to defraud the government or others for financial or material gain. Mentally ill people should get the help they need but the intentional fraudsters should go to jail.

Response by SGM Gregory Tarancon IV made Sep 3 at 2018 1:40 PM

2018-09-03T13:40:58-04:00

I agree with many of the statements posted – “That depression, anxiety, low-self-esteem or any other kind of mental disorder” in general should not be used and an excuse for stolen valor.

With that said, I came across a case of soldier who was being treated for a traumatic brain injury at the VA hospital. I was there visiting an injured service member and the hospital staff asked me if I would not mind visiting the service member. I agreed; the staff told me that the service member had been in a motorcycle accident and had to undergo surgery to relieve pressure the head trauma. The staff told me he was improving but he was “confused” and they were working to help him “sort out” his memory.

I met with the soldier and his family; it became apparent that he was not able to process reality. Before his accident the service member worked in administration and spent most of his time reviewing awards and evaluations. He was unwittingly regurgitating awards write-up and evaluation as events from his own memory. The doctors explained that this was common in head injuries.

Today the service member remembers who he really is and is embarrassed by what he told people. I share this story only to illustrate that this service member could have been confused with someone who stole valor. Although anyone that knew him it was obviously that he could not have done the things he claimed.

Response by SrA Allan Yates made Jan 17 at 2019 11:54 PM

2019-01-17T23:54:00-05:00

So what we have here is a supposed Air Force E7 with among other trappings of stolen valor an infantryman's rifle badge (Army), Air Assault wings (Army), senior parachutist wings (Army) and a set of COMMAND PILOT WINGS. On an ENLISTED man. What a pathetic fool he is.

Response by LT Ed Skiba made Oct 8 at 2019 10:51 AM

2019-10-08T10:51:47-04:00

Very poor self image.