Is there anything wrong with this FREMM frigate design that the Canadians are rejecting for a Type 26 British design?

2018-12-06T00:25:49-05:00

I know they did not follow 'procedure'. My question is which Frigate is better?
I suspect the local shipyards in Canada prefer ships made in Canada.

I just read an article in the Canadian paper where the Canadians are rejecting a bid from an Italian and French Consortium to build 15 frigates for $30 billion dollars. The Canadian government wants Lockheed- Martin Canada and BAE Systems to build a type 26 frigate that is still on the drawing board and not proven yet. The 15 Canadian frigates planned are going to cost about $62 billion dollars. Here is the article I'm talking about it.

I bet you here there are a bunch of experts who could give a better insight into this situation and let me know what you think.

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel LT Brad McInnis SCPO Morris Ramsey LT Brad McInnis CDR Private RallyPoint Member CPT Jack Durish SPC David S. LTC Stephen F. LTC John Mohor PO3 John Wagner Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint PO1 John Miller ] PO1 Private RallyPoint Member SFC Private RallyPoint Member COL Private RallyPoint Member COL Mikel J. Burroughs CSM Charles Hayden SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL Maj Marty Hogan

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/liberals-reject-warship-proposal-that-companies-said-would-save-taxpayers-as-much-as-32b

liberals-reject-warship-proposal-that-companies-said-would-save-taxpayers-as-much-as-32b

Response by CPL Dave Hoover made Dec 6 at 2018 12:44 AM

2018-12-06T00:44:48-05:00

Interesting share brother. Great question.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2018 12:57 AM

2018-12-06T00:57:16-05:00

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/liberals-reject-warship-proposal-that-companies-said-would-save-taxpayers-as-much-as-32b

Liberals reject warship proposal that companies said would save taxpayers as much as $32B

Industry sources alleged the Canadian competition is skewed to favour a bid by Lockheed Martin Canada and the British firm BAE which would see Canada buying the Type 26 frigate

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Dec 6 at 2018 4:19 AM

2018-12-06T04:19:46-05:00

CWO3 Dennis M. 1stSgt Glenn Brackin PO3 Bob McCord PO1 Tom Martin CPO David R. D. H. Mark McGibbon PO1 Brian Austin PO1 Brian Carlson LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow PO2 Robert Aitchison PO1 Robert Payne CPO Alex Nehlebaeff PO3 Michael James CPO Joseph Grant What You think Shipmates the Italian or the Canadian Model?

Response by SPC David S. made Dec 6 at 2018 9:44 AM

2018-12-06T09:44:48-05:00

Twice as much and doesn't check all the boxes - sounds like typical defense contractor/political collusion. My guess some politicians are benefiting financially. The good news this is being challenged.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/canada-still-negotiating-with-lockheed-martin-on-warship-deal-despite-ongoing-legal-action

Canada still negotiating with Lockheed Martin on warship deal despite ongoing legal action

Negotiations on the Canadian Surface Combatant project are still underway between the federal government and the government’s “preferred bidder” Lockheed Martin Canada.Lockheed Ma…

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Dec 6 at 2018 1:53 PM

2018-12-06T13:53:17-05:00

If our experience with the LCS and the Elmo is any indicator, their rejection of the FREMM is wise. BAE is a proven company and part of the crown, which they trust. Whereas FREMM is an EU company, and given the UK is getting ready for BREXIT, politically it is harder to justify. Plus, BAE probably has a better track record than Fincantieri does at building ships. Without knowing the decades of details that go into this I can't really say, but this is my guess...

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Dec 7 at 2018 10:12 PM

2018-12-07T22:12:54-05:00

As a former Contracting Officer, I see the article is painfully full of holes. It's called an unsolicited proposal and this one followed the usual formula. We'll give you something called a frigate for half price because we're not interested in being big boys and actually competing to your specifications. The Italian government tried to weigh in supporting these outfits. What I didn't see is the Italian government guaranteeing they'd pick up the tab for any overrun for the bait and switch. It isn't a question of "better". It's a question of being responsive to what the customer wants. If proper cost controls are in place, AND both ways are efficient in producing to what they say they can do, then I'd expect $30B of something and $62B of something else. These last minute grenades tossed into the bucket are typically sore loser responses. The uneducated and inexperienced political types then demonstrate their ignorance. The article's author shows extreme bias in using the word "liberal". That has nothing to do with anything. If you want to play in the contracting world, the first thing is to follow instructions. The author was also uninterested in teasing out what the typical flawed solicitations which favor one sector over another. Well, maybe he looked and didn't find anything. Who knows? It's just too spotty to draw much hard conclusions.