Is there anything I can do to cover myself, after someone broke into my POV and stole some TA-50?

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Oct 2020 10:07:34 -0400

I live off post near fort Riley. I had gotten home from work and knew I needed to run to the store. I decided I’d take my bicycle to get a little workout in and relax a bit. I quickly changed and went to the store. Within the 1 hr 30 min, to 2hr time frame, someone had broken into my locked truck and stolen my assault pack, a cold weather jacket, my military police vest, and belt. They also stole some personal things but that’s not what I’m super concerned about. My unit is saying that I can’t store TA-50 in my vehicle, and that They’ll give me a FLIPL and I’ll pay for it out of pocket. Is there ANYTHING that can help me out here? And yes, I realize how stupid and lazy it was to not run my bag and vest inside, I completely understand that it’s my fault. I should’ve done it, and I’ve learned a lesson here. Thank you for any advice or comments.

Response by CW5 Jack Cardwell made Oct 1 at 2020 10:11 AM

CW5 Jack Cardwell — Thu, 01 Oct 2020 10:11:51 -0400

Have you contacted your insurance company? Depends on your policy they might cover some of it.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2020 10:21 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Oct 2020 10:21:29 -0400

SPC Nancy Greene Lt Col Charlie Brown CSM Chuck Stafford Col Joseph Lenertz MAJ Byron Oyler any ideas?

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2020 10:23 AM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Oct 2020 10:23:49 -0400

EDIT: I do NOT store these things in my vehicle. I normally do not leave them in there. I used these items for work that day and hadn’t gotten around to take them out of my vehicle because I was rushing to the store.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2020 10:25 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Oct 2020 10:25:38 -0400

File a police report. It won't do anything and they'll never get your stuff back but it will give you evidence of the theft. There is nothing in the regulations that says you can't store OCIE in a locked vehicle. Unless your unit has that "no OCIE in vehicles" policy in writing, they can't enforce it. Talk to JAG. I had my POV broken into in the PX parking lot and they stole my field jacket. FLIPL and it was written off.

Response by CSM Chuck Stafford made Oct 1 at 2020 10:27 AM

CSM Chuck Stafford — Thu, 01 Oct 2020 10:27:20 -0400

What does your insurance company say?

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2020 10:30 AM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Oct 2020 10:30:33 -0400

I’ve contacted insurance, they will not cover property stole, and there was minimal physical damage to my vehicle that it’s cheaper for me to fix it, than it is to pay my deductible.

Response by SSG Paul Headlee made Oct 1 at 2020 10:43 AM

SSG Paul Headlee — Thu, 01 Oct 2020 10:43:17 -0400

So the issue is, was the equipment left unsecured right? Because there were no sensitive items involved I'm thinking that the security provided was adequate. We should be able to feel reasonably safe in having locked something up versus say, leaving it on the sidewalk. You made a reasonable effort to temporarily secure your items and the fact that the criminal element there is not under control is not your problem. Lesson learned. Won't happen again. I can't see you being held liable but then, I'm no lawyer. Good luck with it!

Response by COL Kelly Hines made Oct 1 at 2020 10:43 AM

COL Kelly Hines — Thu, 01 Oct 2020 10:43:29 -0400

I've seen it go both ways, depends on the FLIPL authority. I've written one off in the past and held two others accountable. A quick run into the PX would get written off, leaving it over night in the parking lot of an apartment complex in an unsecure car would not...yours sounds like it was temporarily left in the car but some commanders will say it should have went straight into the house...police report will help especially if forced entry (broken window?) since it shows you secured it, if no evidence of forced entry other than your word it was locked, could be problematic...USAA will pay some after deductible as well. Good luck!
Edit

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Oct 1 at 2020 10:50 AM

MAJ Byron Oyler — Thu, 01 Oct 2020 10:50:35 -0400

Just because a FLIPL is done does not mean you will be found liable. Do you have renters insurance for your residence as sometimes they will cover this kind of loss. IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT someone else decided to be a thief. If this is truly your first time doing this, who is watching you and knows your patterns? You know better than me that most crime is either people you know or the random thief walking by your vehicle, looks in, and sees something worth stealing. If you have any culpability here it could be leaving a vest in plan sight. Don't change your life because of the fear of someone breaking into your vehicle but do explore was something valuable in plan sight? Don't beat yourself up over someone being a thief and your unit should not either unless this has been a routine (I give people the benefit of the doubt). Think smart and learn from this.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2020 11:00 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Oct 2020 11:00:47 -0400

Fort Campbell has a policy that prohibits the storage of TA-50 in POV's. In fact, MP's will send pictures of vehicles with visible TA-50 in it to the Garrison CDR/CSM which trickles down pretty fast. Check to see if there is a post policy.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2020 11:03 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Oct 2020 11:03:59 -0400

Police report and itemized list of TA 50 stolen and present that to your Command and S4

Response by SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee made Oct 1 at 2020 12:09 PM

SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee — Thu, 01 Oct 2020 12:09:46 -0400

Call your auto insurance. If you have comprehensive or full coverage, you can get that money and use it to buy the replacement in the worst-case scenario. At best, you get a police report and use it to get a replacement at the issuing facility and use money from auto insurance to by some beers. If so, you owe me a six-pack.

Ask your unit where did it say in your unit policy or in regulation?

If you are MP, you should know better, thou. What would you tell a victim if you are called to investigate a call of breaking in a car?

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Oct 1 at 2020 12:22 PM

SFC Jim Ruether — Thu, 01 Oct 2020 12:22:11 -0400

Did you have your name on any of the articles that were taken? They could possibly show up at the next Antifa Rally near you.
My major concern is if they are used to gain entry into a military post or base and they injure or kill someone while wearing your gear.
File a report listing all items stolen so at the very least the MP's at Ft. Riley might just pick out the poser if he tries to get on post for what ever reason.
It was a stupid mistake that could cost someone their life. The least of your worries is that you have to buy this equipment and clothing back. If you were in my unit you would be pulling a lot of add'l duty until you figure out that a vehicle is a piss poor locker for your TA-50. Lesson Learned Cpl McAda

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2020 12:32 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Oct 2020 12:32:30 -0400

You’re 100% liable for it if your post/unit has a policy against storing OCIE in your vehicle as many do. However, your auto or renters insurance may cover the loss.

If your post doesn’t have the policy then it can be written off as a loss.

Response by Cpl Benjamin Long made Oct 1 at 2020 1:49 PM

Cpl Benjamin Long — Thu, 01 Oct 2020 13:49:22 -0400

You have to file a police report... Military police cannot go after civilians so the local law enforcement needs to be utilized

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2020 7:20 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Oct 2020 19:20:27 -0400

Let the FLIPL process play out and submit the police report and the itemized list of items stolen and what happened to the folks handling the FLIPL investigation. To me this is not neglect that caused the loss of government property. Some jerk has been watching you and saw a chance to steal something (probably hoping for more meaty and expensive and sensitive items) while you were not around. So let the investigation complete and then if the findings go against you then appeal it. Good luck to you, but as others have said unless there is some specific policy about not having TA 50 stored in your vehicle (and JAG would probably argue you didn’t store it in your vehicle but rather it was being transported in your vehicle) then you should be fine and they should write it off.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Oct 1 at 2020 9:30 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 01 Oct 2020 21:30:03 -0400

I can see it going two ways. You will be found accountable due to negligence or found unaccountable because the thief’s deed was the direct action that caused the loss. I have seen it go in both directions.

Response by SPC Carmen H Ramirez made Oct 13 at 2020 12:00 AM

SPC Carmen H Ramirez — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 00:00:11 -0400

When soldiers in my unit had missing T.A. 50. It didn't matter how it became missing. They were required to replace it. You signed for it, you can't get out until you give it back. If you just don't have it, they will deduct it from your pay, and no you don't get to keep it.

Response by SPC Chris Kuhlman made Oct 22 at 2020 12:24 PM

SPC Chris Kuhlman — Thu, 22 Oct 2020 12:24:15 -0400

I agree with what has been said here about filing a police report... It at least gives you an official document saying there was a theft. You can also check out your local military surplus store and see if you can find TA-50 items. You can buy the items out of pocket and be able to replace them when you ETS for much cheaper than you will be charged for not turning the items in. If I remember correctly, as long as you turn in a matching item, they don't care if it is the EXACT SAME item in the EXACT SAME condition. But pay attention to color, pattern, size and so forth if you go this route. Most importantly, talk with your commander about what happened and see if he/she is can offer any guidance.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Oct 22 at 2020 12:38 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Thu, 22 Oct 2020 12:38:28 -0400

Hope you made a police report at the time of the theft. If you did then your auto insurance may pay all or part of the cost of the loss and damage. If you’re carrying liability only insurance on your car then you’re out of luck.

Is the policy against storing equipment in your vehicle in writing or just in the supply clerk’s head? If not written then it’s not real. Again civilian police report would help.

If you carry home or renters insurance you may be able to claim the cost of stolen goods.

Failing all that talk to your first sergeant.

Response by SGT Beth Day made Dec 3 at 2020 2:07 PM

SGT Beth Day — Thu, 03 Dec 2020 14:07:18 -0500

You can get a police report, assuming you DID report it. But you're still stuck with the fact it shouldn't have been in the vehicle in the first place (if indeed, that's a written regulation). If you have full coverage on your vehicle, your insurance company may pay part of it (after deductible).

Response by 1SG Jeffrey Mullett made Dec 17 at 2020 7:44 PM

1SG Jeffrey Mullett — Thu, 17 Dec 2020 19:44:12 -0500

Unless your unit or Command has a written policy, as long as you have a theft report with the Police Department, you are covered. Otherwise, use common sense. If you are moving from home to your duty station, or vice versa, how are you supposed to move your gear? You were returning from work when your gear was stolen...in other words, your gear was in your vehicle for duty purposes. If you keep your gear in your car all the time, it would be up to your unit to determine if you were negligent.
Provide the police report when you file any paperwork to your unit, and as LTC Burch suggested, talk to JAG.
In my opinion this would be kicking you when you are down, common with bad leadership. I also have had situations where my Supply NCO was a less than stellar NCO, holding people responsible for items that were on the expendable list. (He also stole from the unit, but that's another story) You need to make sure you have your gear inventoried and know what you should be held accountable for. It pays to be proficient in basic supply, just to cover your ass.

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Dec 25 at 2020 3:08 PM

SPC Chris Ison — Fri, 25 Dec 2020 15:08:13 -0500

Check with your insurance company, you may be covered for this, and if not you have learned to carry better car insurance.

Response by SGT Philip Klein made Dec 26 at 2020 12:00 PM

SGT Philip Klein — Sat, 26 Dec 2020 12:00:16 -0500

Hit up your local pawn shop/military surplus store.