Is there any value in voting for a third party candidate for President? Or is your vote "wasted"?

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 08:18:00 -0400

Response by Lt Col Timothy Parker, DBA made Aug 25 at 2016 8:20 AM

Lt Col Timothy Parker, DBA — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 08:20:14 -0400

Wasted. I think any votes draws away from the two main parties. Best case, a third party vote signifies the dissatisfaction with the current mainstream political parties in my view. Just my humble opinion.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2016 8:22 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 08:22:06 -0400

In my opinion a vote for a third party is a vote for a candidate that has no chance of winning. Therefore, to me it is a protest vote. And that certainly is your right.

I wish we had a better choice from our two parties, but, we are stuck with Hillary and Donald.

So I will vote for the one that I think is the less evil. Again, in my opinion voting otherwise would actually support the other as it takes away one vote for my choice of the two.

Response by SGT David T. made Aug 25 at 2016 8:27 AM

SGT David T. — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 08:27:56 -0400

The vote is never wasted even if the candidate has little chance of winning. The point of voting is to vote for the person you feel is best for the job. Voting for the third party because you like what they are saying says a great deal about your integrity. You are being true to yourself and not simply voting for the person you think will mess things up less. If everyone who voted for the lessor of the evils actually voted for the 3rd party that they preferred, I think we would see a change in the mindset that the vote is wasted. No where in the constitution does it say we only can vote Democrat or Republican.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2016 8:33 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 08:33:47 -0400

It isn't wasted. It's a vote take away from the other two parties. It's my right and it's also principals. I can honestly say, when people are dissatisfied with the country (as usual), I voted for someone who actually had interest in the people and the country.

Response by SSG Michael Hartsfield made Aug 25 at 2016 8:34 AM

SSG Michael Hartsfield — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 08:34:30 -0400

Here's the thing. It's wasted because a lot of third party candidates think they can jump to the head of the line and run for president. If there is to be a viable third party, it has to and needs to start at the ground level and those people need to show that they are better leaders, stewards, options than the "prominent two parties." However, in order for that to happen, there a couple of things needed that we as a nation don't want to provide: Patience, hard work, dedication, and the will to keep it going.
Until we have people willing to and that have the four things listed, we will continue to have the "prominent two parties."

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Aug 25 at 2016 8:43 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 08:43:26 -0400

"Wasted Votes" by definition mean any vote that does not directly assist the WINNER of the election.

As an example, 100 votes, it requires 51 votes to win. The 52nd-100th vote for the WINNER are "Wasted Votes" and the 0-49 votes to the LOSER(S) are "Wasted Votes."

Therefore, it is actually "beneficial" to vote third party, as it changes the Voting Dynamic. It actually CHANGES the "Wasted Votes" because it has a potential to decide the election at 34-51 Votes, instead of the "normal" 51.

Additionally, by voting outside the bipartisan tickets, you have the "potential" shift shift party alignment left/right. If the Right/Left starts "losing votes" to an outsider, they modify their platforms to make the third part more included. The goal being to "reabsorb" those potential voters for a more decisive win.

As an example, the current "third party frontrunners" are the Libertarian & Green Party. The Libertarian part draws "about" equal numbers from BOTH primary parties (currently slightly ahead on Dem), while the Green leans towards Dem.

The (flawed) logic of "A vote for Third Party is a vote for X" just does not hold true, mainly because we have "safe states" where it is Winner Take All.

In CA, someone choosing to vote for Gary Johnson over Donald Trump is going to have "no effect" on the OUTCOME of the election within that state. Someone choosing to vote Gary Johnson over Hillary Clinton "might" affect the OUTCOME, but because there are so many "wasted votes" (overage to winner) it is unlikely. The opposite holds true in TX and "Red States."

I notice you are located in VA (Purple = Swing State). Your vote here has the "most" power to alter the election, however the mathematics model shows it unlikely.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2016 8:49 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 08:49:11 -0400

I think, for a 3rd Party to be a viable option for POTUS, they need to win at the State level in greater numbers first.

In the 58 presidential elections since 1788, third party or independent candidates have won at least 5.0% of the vote or garnered electoral votes 12 times (21%); this does not count George Washington, who was elected as an independent in 1788–1789 and 1792, but who largerly supported Federalist policies and was supported by Federalists. Occasionally, a third party becomes one of the two major parties through a presidential election (the last time it happened was in 1856, when the Republicans supplanted the Whigs, who had withered and endorsed the ticket of the American Party): such an election is called a realigning election, as it causes a realignment in the party system; according to scholars, there have been six party systems so far. Only once one of the two major parties came third in an election, but that did not cause a realignment (in 1912 the Progressive Party surpassed the Republicans, but the party quickly disappeared and the Republicans re-gained their major party status). The last third party candidate to win electoral votes was George Wallace of the American Independent Party in 1968, while the last third party candidate to win more than 5.0% of the vote was Ross Perot, who ran as an independent and as the standard-bearer of the Reform Party in 1992 and 1996, respectively.

In the 302 gubernatorial elections since 1990, third party or independent candidates have won at least 5.0% of the vote 49 times (16%), while six candidates have won election (2%). The last third party or independent governor to win was Alaska's Bill Walker, a Republican turned independent, in 2014.

In the 380 Senate elections since 1990, third party or independent candidates have won at least 5.0% of the vote 32 times (8%); two of those candidates (0.5%) have won, both in 2012 (Bernie Sanders and Angus King, who both decided to caucus with the Democrats; Sanders received Democratic support during his 2006 and 2012 electoral campaigns). In 6 of the 32 races, one or the other of the major parties failed to nominate any candidate, allowing third-party candidates to perform better than usual.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Aug 25 at 2016 9:23 AM

SrA Edward Vong — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 09:23:11 -0400

It's not wasted because you're voting for who you believe in. If everyone did the same, then that person may even get elected president.

Response by SFC George Smith made Aug 25 at 2016 9:34 AM

SFC George Smith — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 09:34:01 -0400

The serious 3rd party Candidate gave US Bill Clinton Twice... Thank you H. Ross Perot

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Aug 25 at 2016 9:49 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 09:49:08 -0400

I'll take the unpopular argument. We've seen several posts about voting for some retired Flag officer. The vote would be wasted because it wouldn't go to affect the somewhat tight race between the two who are vastly farther ahead. That said, the caveat is "this time". The vote can be wasted this cycle but with others can build up over time to create change. Problem is we as a culture tend to want instant forever which means we're too impatient. So that's why you see so much conflict with many voters. They know their vote can affect the election, but only if cast for one of two seriously flawed candidates. It's the proverbial pick the best of the worst scenario. It will be interesting to see what the percentage is of those sitting it out this time around.

Response by MSgt James Mullis made Aug 25 at 2016 10:03 AM

MSgt James Mullis — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 10:03:26 -0400

Of course a third party vote is NOT a wasted vote, its a vote cast. I will add that not voting has the EXACT same outcome. There is more in play with a third party vote than "I like Jill Stein better than Trump, Clinton, or Johnson". A Presidential election is NOT a popularity contest and its not supposed to make you feel good about yourself.

A Presidential election is a knock down drag out battle with few rules and lots of shady activity going on. You might want to look at where the third party candidate is getting his or her funding. In many cases you'l find out that it is coming from PAC's and/or donors linked directly to either the Republican or Democrat candidates. Supporting candidates who can't win in an effort to drain off votes from your competitor is a time proven method of winning an election.

With a third party vote, you are basically abstaining, you are saying that backing your candidate is more important to you than which of the two major party candidates wins. If that's how you actually feel, then great. However, the actual outcome of the election has a huge potential to affect your life, the lives of your family, and the lives of your fellow Americans. Choose wisely!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2016 10:04 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 10:04:49 -0400

if you vote for the lesser of two evils then you are voting for evil regardless.... I always suggest voting third party. but, a lot of people can argue that your vote is wasted since the elections are rigged. there are videos of people testifying that it is possible and that it has been done. Just think about all those deceased people still voting.

Response by Maj Marty Hogan made Aug 25 at 2016 10:11 AM

Maj Marty Hogan — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 10:11:23 -0400

Only wasted vote is the one uncast. It is your duty as a citizen and responsibility as a member of the I am an American club. This apathy that my vote won't count is the ticket for politicians to continue to amass power as they can show no one cares. If you don't speak up you will always be the silent majority- regardless of election outcome.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Aug 25 at 2016 10:42 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 10:42:45 -0400

Vote as you please and for whatever reason. It will only matter in the tightest of races. And most diehard Libertarians would vote for their candidate or no one at all, ergo no lost votes to either major parties. The Constitution has absolutely nothing to do with parties. In fact, quite the opposite, it is rigged not to give the actual vote for president to the average citizen.

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Aug 25 at 2016 10:48 AM

SGM Steve Wettstein — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 10:48:42 -0400

By principal, there is value for voting third party if they support your beliefs. But that vote is just one less vote for one of the big two parties.

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Aug 25 at 2016 10:53 AM

PO3 Steven Sherrill — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 10:53:17 -0400

SGM Private RallyPoint Member By definition a wasted vote is any vote for a losing candidate, and any vote above those needed to secure victory for the winning candidate. So in essence in there will be a larger number of wasted votes than effective votes. I personally view a wasted vote as a vote for a candidate that one does not support. Voting for the "lesser of two evils" is a wasted vote. Voting for Trump because one hates Hillary is a wasted vote. Voting for Hillary because one hates Trump is a wasted vote. I will vote for a third party candidate because there is a candidate running whom I believe to be the best choice. Not a perfect choice, as that exists only in the same plane of existence as unicorns, but a good choice.

https://www.theodysseyonline.com/voting-third-party-not-wasted-vote

http://www.accuratedemocracy.com/z_words.htm

5 Reasons Why Voting Third Party Is Not A Wasted Vote

Voting is a right, and don't try to tell me my right is wasted.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Aug 25 at 2016 11:09 AM

Capt Seid Waddell — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 11:09:09 -0400

One of the two major Party candidates will become POTUS in January. Voting for a third Party candidate or staying home and not voting at all only means that one will not take part in the selection, and one’s vote has therefore been thrown away.

In years like this one where two candidates unacceptable to the majority of the voters represent the two major Parties, some think that one’s vote is wasted whether one votes or not.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Aug 25 at 2016 11:24 AM

CPT Jack Durish — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 11:24:33 -0400

No vote is ever wasted. However, many are cast for losing candidates. If it's important to stick with a winner, you must choose one of the candidates from the two major parties. One of those will win. No doubt about it. However, in the interest of full disclosure, I have lived through two elections that were decided when a significant number of voters cast their ballots for a third party candidate, enough to enable the victory of a candidate they later regretted. Even then, though, they didn't "waste" their vote, they simply voted in a manner that caused an outcome they didn't want.

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made Aug 25 at 2016 11:36 AM

SGT Tony Clifford — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 11:36:39 -0400

The way I see it voting out of fear is a wasted vote. Saying you have to vote for one to prevent the other is an understandable instinct, but is not a viable way of voting. If you believe that Trump or Clinton is the candidate that best suits your own viewpoint, great knock yourself out and vote for them. If you think Johnson or Stein are best in line with your ideals, then vote for them. If we all started voting for who we believed in we would have less fear mongering in our national dialog. People would have to present ideas and not attack ads.

Response by SFC Phillip Allen made Aug 25 at 2016 11:37 AM

SFC Phillip Allen — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 11:37:42 -0400

Voting for who you believe is best suited is never wasted. Vote your conscience, and with your head. Not necessarily with your party affiliation. The only way to break the cycle of the completely ridiculous two party system is for third party and independents to make serious runs, and for people to vote for them. This changes how the system works, forces compromise, and that's a good thing, just like the Founding Fathers intended.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2016 11:59 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 11:59:45 -0400

I would say if everyone voted for character and principle then the third party question wouldn't be an issue. People are so hung up on party they forget to ask themselves if the candidate is worth it. I'm sure we can all find Republicans and Democrats regardless of your party preference that are dirt bags.

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Aug 25 at 2016 12:06 PM

SCPO David Lockwood — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 12:06:45 -0400

No vote is wasted. If you truly think that the other candidate would do a better job than the other yahoos than your vote is not wasted. It's what you feel strongly about.

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Aug 25 at 2016 12:47 PM

SPC Sheila Lewis — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 12:47:56 -0400

exercise your voting privilege makes You counted.

Response by SSG Karl Fowler made Aug 25 at 2016 12:48 PM

SSG Karl Fowler — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 12:48:43 -0400

for some reason if you don't get out to the polling stations and VOTE then you have wasted your your vote. VOTE, VOTE. just my 3 1/2 cents worth

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Aug 25 at 2016 12:52 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 12:52:30 -0400

You need to define value and wasted? I think it is your right and duty to vote the way you see right. I think IF a third party is going to win an election, this would be the one they could? I do not see a third party candidate who would engender such support currently? Castle, Johnson and Stein are not really viable alternatives and what support they do have is more opposition to the two main options. My belief is that anything but Clinton would not be wasted, and especially if it helps ensure she does not win.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2016 12:52 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 12:52:41 -0400

It seems "wasted" because third party candidates never seem to do very well in the electorate - another system we need to get rid of. Let the popular vote determine the presidency, and let that be the end of it.

Response by SFC J Fullerton made Aug 25 at 2016 1:04 PM

SFC J Fullerton — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 13:04:18 -0400

I am all for voting your conscience. If the candidate that appeals to you most is a third party, then by all means vote that way. You still do your civic duty while preserving your "right to bitch". Better than not voting at all. However, that said, we all know that in the current system, third parties have no chance at getting enough electorial votes to win. So third party votes can and will take away votes from one of the 2 major candidates. If Gary Johnson takes 12%, that 12% will make a difference for who loses in a close election (and decide the winner, obviously).

Response by CPT Tom Monahan made Aug 25 at 2016 3:25 PM

CPT Tom Monahan — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 15:25:10 -0400

I've voted Libertarian in the past two cycles and I felt great! I am actively campaigning for Johnson and Webb this cycle. The Ds and Rs have spent their time competing with each other rather than doing what is right for America. We will never break the duopoly if everyone is afraid to vote for the best candidates.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2016 3:25 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 15:25:26 -0400

I think people keep viewing Voting as if they are picking the right lotto numbers or horse at the derby. You shouldn't vote for who you think will win, you should vote for the person you think will be the best at the job. if enough people don't vote along party lines it lets the party know they need to start making good on all of those promise's.

Response by CPO Arthur Garcia made Aug 25 at 2016 3:31 PM

CPO Arthur Garcia — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 15:31:56 -0400

If you don't vote DON'T GRUMBLE, as a saying that goes where I'm at, I vote Alternative if I don't think the candidate meets my test, YES MY Test NOT FAUX NEWS, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, ETC ETC. I have voted for REPUBS, Libertarian, DEMO, Green, in the last Governors race I voted for the guy who got 1% of the vote because neither MAJOR Party had a decent candidate. So Not a waste. A waste is NOT VOTING

Response by SFC Everett Oliver made Aug 25 at 2016 3:49 PM

SFC Everett Oliver — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 15:49:20 -0400

Knowing that things could be really tight between the two major candidates, and voting for someone who has no chance of winning tells me that the voter doesn't care to make their vote count towards influencing the direction of the country. Yes it's your vote and you have the right to cast it as you please. I'm damned tired of voting against people myself. I have no doubt I could do a better job than the candidates we have been saddled with. And I would vote for me if I didn't care about who gets appointed to the courts. The next president is going to affect the rest of my life, I'll vote for the person who has the best chance of beating the person who says they want the courts to change the 1st and 2nd amendment.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Aug 25 at 2016 4:48 PM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 16:48:45 -0400

The only wasted vote is the vote not cast. I'm currently in NC and in my state, less than 1/3 of all registered voters actually voted in our primary. Can you imagine what the race would have looked like if the other 2/3 voted??? Maybe Cruz would be the front runner, maybe Carson, maybe Bernie Sanders... or maybe even the 3rd party candidates.

Voter apathy is the only vote that will ever be wasted.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2016 5:42 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 17:42:34 -0400

I have voted third party in the last two elections and will again.

If your state isn't a swing state the political parties have already subverted the constitutional method of selecting the president through the electoral college process anyway so it doesn't matter.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2016 5:47 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 17:47:39 -0400

In Connecticut and half the states you can vote for the minority party at the federal level and there is very little chance it's going to be a competitive race. Now you can go oout of your way and motivate others to join supporting xyz candidate.

The third party candidates are typically 2 to 10% in the polls. They are so low it's typically a distraction for the other two candidates at 40%. They avoid contact, because it would only build the ego and name id of the third party candidate. Typically the third party candidate can say just about anything and no one will go after their positions or history.

I was an outsider in a major party and won 3 elections. Lost the final one by a few points when all the federal candidates, Governor and their allies applied the full court press on the Senate district. Of course it did not help that I avoided negative attacks and had strict fiscally responsible voting record. Great experience, but best thing that happened to my family and life was time to regroup and take a long break from politics.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2016 5:53 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 17:53:29 -0400

Typically the third party candidate is not tested or pressed because they are so low in the polls. Now if you have any desire to impact an election and you are fiscally responsible or a tax and spend liberal you can waste your vote.

Collectively 1% support for a third party candidate might ensure your left or right party candidate loses out. Then you get a candidate with opposite ideology in office.

Example is Clinton in the 90s and possibly Clinton in 2016. I would be highly confident that many of the libertarians would vote for Trump before Clinton. Behind the curtain there are people ensuring these third parties pull from one or the other candidates.

Response by SGT Billy Vincent made Aug 25 at 2016 7:02 PM

SGT Billy Vincent — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 19:02:58 -0400

Voting is making a statement. It's not simply about winning. A vote represents what you believe. As long as you cast your vote to win, and it differs from what you truly want, there will never be any real change. There is a requirement of honesty in voting. Otherwise the system fails. It fails to represent the desires of the masses. It fails to express what changes the populous wants. It's fails to hold up hold the sanctity process of fair representation.

Response by SSgt Jonathan Dickey made Aug 28 at 2016 7:43 AM

SSgt Jonathan Dickey — Sun, 28 Aug 2016 07:43:27 -0400

A vote is not wasted no matter who you vote for. A third party candidate may not win this election but by voting for them you can show your displeasure with the two major party selections. If enough people vote third party maybe in the next election they will have more of a chance to win since the higher their percentage of votes is the more people will be willing to vote for them in a later election. This could result in one of the two major parties turning into a third party.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2016 11:24 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 28 Aug 2016 11:24:09 -0400

The only "wasted" vote is the one not cast. It's important as citizen to exercise the responsibility of voting. Yes, I used the word responsibility on purpose. The Constitution of the United States, as amended, only states who may NOT be denied the Right of Suffrage, not who has the right.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2016 11:39 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 28 Aug 2016 11:39:05 -0400

Voting for a awful candidate is a wasted vote, even more so if they win.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2016 6:59 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 Aug 2016 18:59:05 -0400

Some will say that a vote for a third party is a waste. People who say that are really saying they don't care about the voter, the voter's voice, or the voter's conscience. They are saying that the voter's views are not worth being represented. That voters should silence their voice so theirs can be louder.

Vote your conscience, SGM Private RallyPoint Member.

Response by CPO Lenny Orth made Aug 31 at 2016 2:30 AM

CPO Lenny Orth — Wed, 31 Aug 2016 02:30:10 -0400

We have a two Party system. Your vote for one of those two Party's, your non participation or your vote for a third Party candidate will only help or hinder one of the two actual Party's. Republican or Democrat. Voting for any individual because you think they are the best thing since sliced bread is naive and ignorant. Figure our which Party best supports what you believe and support that Party. (Hint: you are wearing a uniform, 99.99%of anyone else wearing a military uniform supports the Republican Party...
If you want to live in an America with three or more Party's you need to start running and supporting those Party's at the lower levels of politics.

Response by MSG Anthony Makar made Sep 1 at 2016 2:20 PM

MSG Anthony Makar — Thu, 01 Sep 2016 14:20:52 -0400

No vote is wasted. I believe that you should vote your conscience, beliefs and values. If that happens to be for a third party candidate so be it, but at least Americans will been heard. Think about this, if 100% of Americans voted and voted their beliefs, conscience and values you would have more of a representative consensus of what America wants and could remove this ruling by mandate concept. Also maybe just maybe politicians will look up and see and take notice that they can not manipulate the masses with fancy catch phrases and phony assertions or because you have R or D affiliation. When you vote I challenge you to ask yourself this question. "who is best for America and is more in line with my beliefs and the founding fathers principles?". If you are honest with yourself, you will be surprised with your answer. Its not about winning this is not a sport, this is about doing whats right for our nation and our children.

Response by PO2 Jaime Lazarus made Sep 9 at 2016 10:06 AM

PO2 Jaime Lazarus — Fri, 09 Sep 2016 10:06:29 -0400

I read Abe Lincoln was a 3rd party candidate. At what point will the general population once again get so fed up with what is happening in Washington, DC that they stop voting for the candidate they hate the least?