Is there a way to get the profiling of Soldiers at TMC fixed?

2015-03-14T12:07:22-04:00

Here is the scenario; I had a 23 year old Soldier who collapsed at work on a Wednesday and was taken to the emergency room.
After some testing it was determined that she needed a Pacemaker. It was placed in on a Friday night. She was released from the hospital on Saturday afternoon.
The Soldier then went to the TMC who expected her to return to work immediately without any convalescent leave. I mean she just had a pacemaker put in and we had to go through Casualty assistance to get her Mother up here from PA. The Mother did not make it until after the surgery.
When the Commander called to verify he was told " I do not tell you how to do your job! Do not tell me how to do mine!"
I have seen Soldiers get more days off for Diarrhea.
I did not believe it was right an informed her to see the Doctor who did the surgery to get a more defined explanation of the time needed to recover.

It just seems like they randomly decide instead of clear manner.
What do all of you think?

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2015 12:31 PM

2015-03-14T12:31:35-04:00

Unless the army does it different I believe what needs to happen is she needs to get a leave form signed from the physician this needs to goto who ever handles these type of admin duties for the Army. For the AF we call it he orderly room or the CSS. Generally the doctor should have given a few weeks off.

I would see if she can get convalescent leave entered in the system. It is outside the authority of the commander. I can't believe a commander would think it was a good idea to return someone to duty after a major procedure like this.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Mar 14 at 2015 12:33 PM

2015-03-14T12:33:34-04:00

I can't speak to the Army, but on the AF side the doc provides the recommendation. The a Commander makes the final call. I have had commanders extend and shorten the length the Doc recommended based on their own judgement.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2015 1:32 PM

2015-03-14T13:32:43-04:00

I think that it had to be hard for the Army doctors who see so many Soldiers every day to provide adequate care for all of them. I don't think it's right, but with the amount of doctors we have they are always booked way out, unless you go wait for hours in the emergency room. I lost mobility in my left thumb for an Army doctor who didn't believe it was broken when I first went in. Three weeks later I went back and looking at the original xray the new doctor saw I had broken it in four places and had chipped a bone off that had been cutting into the tendon in they mean time. The original doctor got in trouble and relieved, but they just replaced the Major with a 1LT. I was mad at first, but realize that with so many patients back to back to back that I can see how doctors miss things that they shouldn't miss

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Mar 14 at 2015 2:00 PM

2015-03-14T14:00:07-04:00

This is an excellent thread topic. Thanks!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2015 2:27 PM

2015-03-14T14:27:02-04:00

Unfortunately we as a system are broken, it is not just at the physician level. I tore my rotator cuff was only partial when they found it but because of staffing at the hospital where I work I had to wait 7 months for them to sign off on getting it fixed and by the time I had surgery what would have been a simple fix with maybe 3-4 months of rehab I had a complete tear and looking at 1 year and may never get 100% of my use back. The whole system needs to be fixed, we have so many malingerers that is backs the system up and we are very short on providers. This is one reason why the services are looking to get more NP's in the system but that will take time because of the pressure from the medical community we now must have our Doctorate which will delay for at least 3 years from the time they decide that is what they want to do. It will take time to fix but on the civilian side it is not much better long wait times for appointment over use of the ER, the whole system is broken.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2015 4:05 PM

2015-03-14T16:05:55-04:00

I hope that the command team would do the right thing and give the soldier the non-charged leave and light duty regardless of the official profile.

I would also hope that his issue would be taken up to higher command to a level that can have a discussion with the authority at the TMC that can make the correction.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 14 at 2015 5:29 PM

2015-03-14T17:29:50-04:00

In the Marines, we have 2 types of leave, annual (charged), and "basket" (uncharged). If the commander has a concern that there is an unsafe condition resulting from her surgery, he can grant a "liberty" for up to 48 hours at his own discretion, while he runs it up the flagpole. At that point, if the situation is not resolved to his satisfaction, by getting the profile changed, he can have her fill out basket leave paperwork for what he deems an appropriate amount of time, and have her "check in" periodically (call each morning, or once per week, etc).

During this, file an IG complaint. If something is wrong, ring the gong. You're taking care of your soldier using "appropriate command discretion" and mitigating chances of it being abused.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2015 10:16 PM

2015-03-14T22:16:53-04:00

I have a civilian friend who got one at 33, he was laid up in the hospital for two weeks before they sent him home (with out medical insurance). Considering the follow up appointments he went through to get his platelet level under acceptable levels, I would think at least 30 days of convalescent leave would be about right.
If I was in charge I'd put the soldier on a pass for a few days, start yanking on the chain of command, IG, whoever. While that's being worked on have the soldier stay at home and call in to her NCO so she's accounted for. Telecommute. I wouldn't want that soldier driving. My friend was told not to drive for thirty days. I had to drive him across creation to get him set right.

Response by SMSgt James Johnson made Mar 15 at 2015 1:33 AM

2015-03-15T01:33:13-04:00

I had a Heart attack on duty while working, after having stints installed and the threat of additional heart attacks due to blockages they could not fix I was medically retired after over 30 years of service. It took over a month to get enough strength to return to work, and I'm still not able to pass the PT test anymore. Back during my military service while be treated at the military hospital at FT Campbell I was told by a Dr. there when he was working on my teeth and killing me with pain that "I was a soldier and should suck it up". He was removing all 4 of my wisdom teeth simultaneously and having to cut them out without adequate pain killer. I had to go to a civilian Dr. later that day just to get pain meds to make it through the next week following that debacle. I never went back to the military Doc's again after that and lost all trust in them. The treatment our soldiers get in military hospitals is driven by the dollar and should be considered an affront to everything they sacrificed for our country.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2015 3:26 PM

2015-03-15T15:26:53-04:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member, don't understand how this would have happened. When a Soldier goes in for surgery, they come out with the doctor's recommendation for Convalescent Leave (up to 31 days for regular surgery, 42 for pregnancy I think). Your Soldier should have come back with that.

As for fixing TMCs, think it starts with honest CO-command teams who are getting the ground truth from their Soldiers and identifying when there's a problem that needs fixing - and engaged BN-command team to make the change happen.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Mar 15 at 2015 5:33 PM

2015-03-15T17:33:41-04:00

A few notes. The typical recovery period for pacemaker placement is 3-7 days. I'm assuming she went the TMC that Monday? Although it may seem a bit brash because of how serious the procedure sounds, it is "ok" to go back to work.
As far as the PA, I would say we are missing a piece of the puzzle. It just doesn't add up for the PA to have that kind of response to a Commander who is trying to check on the wellbeing of his Soldier. A PA's job by definition is to literally take care of people, so to be angry with someone who is trying to do that seems a bit off.
However, the Commander doesn't need anything from a PA to put a Soldier on con-leave. The provider simply makes a recommendation for it or not. It is completely up to the CDR on what he wants to do. So even if that is what the PA said, in the end it doesn't matter. Also the discharge paperwork from he hospital can also serve as justification for con-leave for the Commander. So there's that too.