Is there a Regulation regarding PEB when you have no official diagnosis? Could this be a possible IG complaint?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 20:52:16 -0500

So I apologize for the lengthy question, want to be through and detailed.

So around 2016 I started having non specific, generalized symptoms. (Overall weakness, constant fatigue, headaches, dizziness and the sorts) They became chronic about April of 2017. Passed an APFT March of 2017.

I saw countless specialists outside of the military (I'm in the PA ARNG, Covered with Tricare) and after countless visits/tests, there has been no formal diagnosis. I deployed to the SE Asia (Kuwait) from 2012-2013 surrounded by constant burn pits, oil refineries burning off, exposure to many chemicals and factories. (Worked on Shuaibu Port (SPOD)) was fine throughout.

To the main reasoning. I was put on a permanent profile approximately Sept 2017(basically I was on a dead mans profile). The state of PA initiated a Physical Evaluation Board(PEB) about a year later (since my symptoms were staying relatively the same causing massive hardship with work, and everyday life, physical exercise/exhaustion etc)

I did everything I needed to do (handed in all.medical docs from 2016-present), but the state was telling our BN Medical NCO that they needed an official diagnosis to process.

While all of this was going on, I filed a VA claim shortly before going on Permanent Profile in 2017, and currently appealing their denial
And seeing physicians at the VA who also gave no diagnosis.

In August of 2019, I was advised by my Readiness NCO that the state stopped the PEB process, and was now making me fully mission capable with PHULES all at 1s.

My Questions being is there any type of regulation that indicates any of this, can the state just say I'm FMC without being cleared by my primary physician even though they were the ones to initiate it? And would this even warrant a valid IG complaint.

Always have been a Soldier/NCO to go and do the Army thing, not try and "air grievances", but I feel like there is something either the state or my unit is not telling me.

At our recent MOBEX, I spoke with our BN PA and he basically said the same thing that the state needed a diagnosis, and the diagnosis of "Chronic fatigue syndrome" that a physician put down as a "placeholder" diagnosis was not valid enough.

This obviously is going to mess with any promotions (currently in a 6 slot waiting to go to ALC) and possible retention. I only want to make it to get Tricare for life, even if that means getting a medical retirement.

I'm not looking for barracks lawyer advice here, anyone with any type of information/resources/places to go would be great. Dont want to contact IG without doing my due diligence (and not sure if theres a period to file with them since this was about 4/5 months ago)

Thanks again for listening/reading thank you.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Jan 9 at 2020 9:29 PM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 21:29:22 -0500

I can offer no real insight here. However if the PEB was initiated, you should have been assigned a PEBLO. This is who I would reach out to in your situation. PEBLOs are (supposed to be) SMEs in the process and can give you far better advice regarding what is illegal, what is against regs, what is in a grey area, and what is completely good to go.

Response by CPL Gary Pifer made Jan 9 at 2020 11:34 PM

CPL Gary Pifer — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 23:34:52 -0500

Go read the US code and AR regs regarding MEB and PEB.. also read US code and VA regs regarding Ratings and disability especially Schedule of disabilities... Know the difference between MEB and PEB... real world... IG could care less... State doesn't want you on the rolls as disabled.. signed Barrack's Lawyer

Response by CPL Gary Pifer made Jan 9 at 2020 11:38 PM

CPL Gary Pifer — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 23:38:11 -0500

Go to Civilian Doctors and get a diagnosis.. in fact get many... Get a Phych exam... make sure your diagnosis matches the ones in the VA schedule of disabilities.. at the rating you want... get Nexus letters... signed Barrack's Lawyer..

Response by MSG Brandon Lloyd made Jan 10 at 2020 1:46 AM

MSG Brandon Lloyd — Fri, 10 Jan 2020 01:46:58 -0500

I hate you are going through all that back and forth. I spent time In the medical community and even though it was on the special operations side, we all do clinical rotations. I was also severely wounded twice and after the second time I went through a medical board and was retired.
I have no idea why, nor can I think of a logical reason they couldn’t come up with a diagnosis. Without at least an initial diagnosis there is no way for them to start treating you. I don’t know if you were just unlucky because your health care was being managed by a bunch of incompetent zoo monkeys or if it was a situation where they had some plan of action and just didn’t fill you in. Either way you get screwed.
But the fact that you saw multiple providers who weren’t in contact with each other and couldn’t get a medical diagnosis on paper is strange. Also are you sure they gave you a permanent profile. A permanent profile goes in your medical and personnel records, there is no way to do that with out saying why. In other words they would have to know what the problem was to know what your limitations are. That is the diagnosis. If they started a med board they had a diagnosis of some kind.

I may not have helped you in any way. I can tell you this which may help, no one is in charge of your health except you. Be very vocal and ask a lot of questions. You should have a PEBLO or ombudsman you can go to. They are there to help. You are supposed to be a part of Things every step of the way. If they just wiped all that away and are saying you’re cleared then I would fight it all the way up the chain and even to the IG.

Or if they say you’re fine and you feel fine, Soldier on and be the best asset your unit has. .

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jan 10 at 2020 5:57 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Fri, 10 Jan 2020 05:57:35 -0500

Sorry for your troubles. A permanent profile comes with a diagnosis. You need to verify that you in fact have one. Sad to say that without a diagnosis it is challenging. There is a site with the VA where those who have been around excessive burn pits and the like can register. Then the site shows the area or province you were in and whether or not it is designated as sort of a hot zone. If you have not tried this contact the DAV, or one of the Veterans organizations, VFW, they work these cases all the time. Thank you for your service.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2020 8:42 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Jan 2020 08:42:14 -0500

Speaking as a former IG, I was not a medic and that is far from my lane, so my advice will only be from the IG side of the house. First of all, there is no time limit with which you can submit something to the IG. Keep in mind the longer you wait, the tougher it becomes for the IG to work your issue, because the people involved in your case may have switched out if you wait too long. The IG will ask you if you have talked to your Chain of Command? The IG will look at the procedures and see if they were done properly. The most important thing you have to know about the IG, is that they can not and will not tell anyone what decision needs to be made on your case. But they can definitely look into the procedure for a med board and see if in fact you were put into IDES. Just have all your ducks in a row and paperwork with you, if something is missing or left out the IG will find it. Be prepared to receive an answer you might not like. Maybe you will. But there is always an expectation from Soldiers that by going to the IG, they will wave some magic wand and give you what you want. Not true. They deal with facts and facts alone. Sometimes it works in your favor and sometimes it doesn't. but at least they may be able to give you some closure either way. But its definitely worth having them look into the procedure for you. I wish you the best of luck. Sounds like if nothing else there has been a lot of miscommunication.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 10 at 2020 4:06 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 10 Jan 2020 16:06:07 -0500

It seems to me that medical gave you a profile, thus medical needs to determine your status to keep you on profile or take you off. To me that's logical.

Response by SSG Elyzabeth Cromer made Jan 10 at 2020 4:48 PM

SSG Elyzabeth Cromer — Fri, 10 Jan 2020 16:48:14 -0500

I have some backgroud in this area; I was the MMRB coordinator for my state, I developed our MAR2 program, and was responsible for preparing all of the MEB/PEB packets for five years. I myself went through an MMRB for a nerve issue and many years later was processed out after an MAR2, through MEB, and PEB when I was injured. I have been on both sides of the system and my Father was a service officer for the DAV, additionally I was a unit administrator and a dental technician so I am probably as close to a subject matter expert as you are going to find without paying money. (Plus I checked the current regs when I answered you.)

I would suggest a visit to a civilian neurologist, many of your symptoms are listed in AR 40-501, chapter 3, section 31 Neurology (6)k. other neurological conditions. Once a civilian Neurologist has examined you they will start working with you to try and elevate your symptoms. Part of that process will be avoidance of anything that exacerbates those symptoms, this will more than likely lead to a new profile. Bring a copy of DA form 7809 with you for the civilian Neurologist to fill out. It is a requirement, according to AR 40-502 chp.3-1)that "Healthcare providers will evaluate every Soldier at every medical encounter to identify and appropriately profile potential duty limitations". Make sure any medications the Neurologist prescribes are listed, it is not uncommon for new medications to trigger an automatic 30 to 90 day temporary profile, this will give you some time to get the rest of this mess straight, and get your profile reinstated.

Next portion of your question. If you had a Permanent Profile from 2017 on and are waiting to go to ALC this should by regulation mean that you have been had an MAR2 to determine your ability to be retained and been found fit. If you were in the PEB process that normally means means you were found not fit for retention and completed a Medical Evaluation Board (MEB) of which you make no mention. ALL of this SHOULD have been explained to you as part of the MAR2 counseling process. There is something seriously wrong with what is going on in your situation. Probably not your fault. So what to do?
1. If you had an MAR2, what are the results? Get them.
2. If you didn't, you were not in the PEB process. Civilian Neurologist.
3. If you had an MAR2 and were retained with a P3 profile and the state changed it. Go to to your Command, they cannot change it without another MAR2 and they are required to provide the medical documentation that it should be changed.
4. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is the diagnosis given. The "State" can discuss it with your physician or send you to an MEB. Go to the Neurologist.
5. If you got confused somewhere in the process and had a PEB without realizing it there should be a Y on your profile indicating you were boarded, retained and your profile upgraded. You should have also received the results and been given an opportunity to appeal. Check your profile.
6. The Veterans Administration is really great for many things depending on what state you are living in. (I get a lot of my treatment through them.) When it comes to filing your claim, it is not their job to take care of you. Go get help with your claim from one of the service organizations (I like the DAV, but the VFW, Legion, and others can help.) It is the quality of the medical documentation that you have that will determine your case with the V.A. Go to a civilian Neurologist.
7. The Regulation that covers medical discharge process is AR 645-40. It is available on line. Google and read.
8. Something that many (if not most) service members do not realize is that the IG really has no power to do anything. The IG is a great investigative tool, if they are on your side they can track down a great deal of information for you, but even if you are right and they make a recommendation that the Command do XYZ, that doesn't mean anything. The Commander does not have to follow the advice of the IG. There is absolutely nothing that says the Commander must follow the recommendation and if they do not, chances are nothing will happen to them. Skip the IG.
9. If you have the medical documentation that says you have a problem, and your profile was changed, and none of the above information has helped you get this straight, file a Congressional Complaint. In the National Guard these are usually handled by the Adjutant General's Office. The AG is confirmed by the legislature, meaning it is a semi political post, and a call from a member of Congress or a Senator about a legitimate issue with a Service Member gets attention and problems taken care of. Make sure you have your ducks in a row before you go this route, no one likes to waste their time on an E5 who didn't read the reg or turn in the paperwork.
Good luck.