Is the Unit obligated to update the PT card that a SPC (P) took before going to BLC or should the most recent PT card from BLC be updated?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 08:42:21 -0500

A Soldier took APFT before going to BLC (scored 280). Went to BLC took another APFT (scored 210). The school house updated the PT scores (210) on DTMS which resulted in this Soldier losing a lot of promotion points. Is the Unit obligated to updating the PT card prior to BLC so he can recover the promotion points? Training room is being difficult!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2020 8:49 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 08:49:06 -0500

I’m not exactly sure what the question is here, but I’ll take a guess. DTMS should reflect the latest record PT test. If that latest record is the one he took at BLC, then that’s it. If the latest record is the one he took at the unit, then that’s it. If the one he took at BLC is only a diagnostic, then that should not be uploaded to DTMS.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2020 8:49 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 08:49:30 -0500

The most recent PT card is the soliders new pt score. I would ask for another test prior to the board.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2020 8:49 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 08:49:51 -0500

Well when you take an APFT that’s your current physical condition so that is what you should be evaluated by as a promotion. The soldier must maintain physical conditioning at all times. Not just when his or her packet is submitted.

Your most recent For Record APFT DA 705 should be updated in IPERMS and DTMS. It is the soldiers responsibility to uptade their promotion packet as a means of integrity.

The soldier may take another APFT upon returning from BLC to recover.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2020 8:54 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 08:54:40 -0500

How do you go from a 280 to a 210???? That is his fault for staying physically conditioned. He did that to himself. Unless say he was in an accident or got injured in that time gap.

Response by CSM Eric Olsen made Jan 2 at 2020 9:11 AM

CSM Eric Olsen — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 09:11:27 -0500

Looks like you already discovered this but NCO academies are now required to update all PT and HT/WT stats in DTMS. It is one of TRADOCs ways to increase academic rigor, and frankly because many of the units are not sending their folks to school-prepared which this requirement also holds them accountable.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2020 9:22 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 09:22:02 -0500

I believe only your unit commander can issue a for record PT Test. It also has to be stated prior to the test that it is for record. If it wasn't for record they don't update it.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2020 9:23 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 09:23:16 -0500

The most recent score is the current score.
Entering a previous score does not help for points.
Also, an APFT prior to BLC might have been a diagnostic for school, not record, and therefore not necessary in DTMS and certainly not points for promotion, and would be the reason why your unit would not enter it in DTMS, or they did enter it as a diagnostic, which is why you don't see the points.

What you should be looking into at your unit is grading standards for the APFT; if a Soldier scores 280 at your unit then only scores a 210 a short time later at BLC, then it's likely you have graders at your unit that do not understand the standard for pushups and situps, and/or your 2mi run route is too short.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2020 9:24 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 09:24:52 -0500

When I was in blc they told us to focus on form. Hit the minimum and pass the pt test. I remember the phrase “181 exceeds the standard”. I’m sure it’s the same for this soldier. They didn’t update our DTMS to reflect it either. If the 280 card states “for record” then they might do it

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2020 9:39 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 09:39:34 -0500

Sounds like they need to take another PT test if they want to recover those promotion points. I don’t understand how you drop down to 210 from a 280 though.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2020 9:47 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 09:47:54 -0500

The APFT prior to BLC was for record. The Soldier stated that at BLC they were only required to "Pass" the APFT that was why he didn't put in extra effort. I spoke to his NCO at BLC and he told me that the training room should easily go into DTMS and change the dates so the prior APFT score of 280 will reflect. I was just wondering if there is a regulation to back this up or if I should go speak to the CO about it.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2020 10:41 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 10:41:18 -0500

The one taken at BLC will count, to me this look like a situation where the units grade different than BLC.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jan 2 at 2020 2:08 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 14:08:51 -0500

The most recent counts. It is for record, unless otherwise stated just like with the unit. That dramatic of a drop is indicative of other possibilities, all can fill in the blank. His current score is what it is. Thank you for your service.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Jan 2 at 2020 2:33 PM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 14:33:13 -0500

For all those asking how you go from 280 to 210, the answer is simple. On the 210, you were only concerned with passing.
WAY back when it was still PLDC, I was a 285 PT guy (100, 85, 100 with time to spare on run and PU). When I went to PLDC, I was sub- 200. I knew I wasn't competing for Iron NCO, because I wasn't on the extended scale. So I did 45 picture perfect push-ups in sets of ONE. I made absolutely sure every one would be counted and there would be no question about each push up. This was actually ENCOURAGED by the cadre. I did 55 sit-ups and stopped, saving my energy for the run. APFT was on a Monday - the previous Friday evening the Commander literally ripped my profile in half - I had been off crutches for less than a week with a sprained ankle. I was worried about the run. I ended up running it in the low 15s. I ended up with a 63, 63, 70. 196 - and I was nowhere near alone in my class.

Response by MSG Bennie Davis made Jan 2 at 2020 5:26 PM

MSG Bennie Davis — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 17:26:59 -0500

Yes the unit is responsible to update the Soldiers PT scores but it's also the Soldiers responsibility to make sure their records are kept updated especially before going to any NCOES school.