Is the term "Front Line" outdated?

SGM (R) Antonio Brown — Sat, 09 Apr 2016 14:39:16 -0400

Response by CPT Joseph K Murdock made Apr 9 at 2016 2:41 PM

CPT Joseph K Murdock — Sat, 09 Apr 2016 14:41:29 -0400

It depends on the war/battle. We want a linear war, but the fact is, it is more important to gain the trust of locals, ensure governmental forces are ready to fight, and the government acts rationally. Our fight has gone into the societies minds. This was a very good question.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2016 2:54 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Apr 2016 14:54:57 -0400

We have been operating on an asymmetrical battlefield for quite some time but the day will come where we will have to focus back on our more conventional TTP'S.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2016 2:59 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Apr 2016 14:59:16 -0400

SGM (R) Antonio Brown The day may come when we might fight in more of a "Front Line" war.

Response by SSG Gerhard S. made Apr 9 at 2016 3:50 PM

SSG Gerhard S. — Sat, 09 Apr 2016 15:50:11 -0400

It is outdated.... Unless one finds oneself there.

Response by SFC Marcus Belt made Apr 9 at 2016 5:27 PM

SFC Marcus Belt — Sat, 09 Apr 2016 17:27:09 -0400

Because our enemies can "reinforce" their numbers and inflict damage upon us in our Homeland via the internet, I'd say yes.

But even in the current modes of kinetic warfare, we operate off of firebases located in (ostensibly) key areas where our front line strongly resembles a circle with US forces in the center.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2016 2:46 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Apr 2016 02:46:41 -0400

As a SGM, I'm curious if this is a probing question for simple discussion or one that is serious.
Does your S1 clerk do the same job as a rifleman? I would venture to say that when you ask both of those soldiers to tell you about their deployments, you will most certainly get a definitive view of who was on the 'front line' and who was not.

Conventional, assymetical, coin... Call the fight whatever you wish up in the strategic levels, but rest assured there is most certainly a fight going on, and not everybody fights it.
We all have our roles in this fine machine we call the Army, but to think for a second that there isn't a front line on the modern battlefield, to me, shows either a disconnect from what the soldier on the ground is doing and those who are supposed to command him, or a lack of ability to relate terminology of old to fit the modern war. Both of which are disturbing thoughts.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Apr 10 at 2016 8:55 AM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Sun, 10 Apr 2016 08:55:47 -0400

"It depends" Time and situation will tell.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2016 5:56 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Apr 2016 17:56:18 -0400

i would have to say yes on this, with full spectrum combat there are no front lines, the people we fight are in front, behind and minglally with us

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2016 12:26 AM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Apr 2016 00:26:43 -0400

A woman told me yesterday since I'm a female. I'm not in the front line. I told her no such thing anymore everybody is in the front line. I don't think it's outdated.

Response by 1SG Jacob Baty made Apr 11 at 2016 9:16 PM

1SG Jacob Baty — Mon, 11 Apr 2016 21:16:46 -0400

If you are on a FOB and never leave the wire you are not on the front line. If on a COP you most certainly are on the front line.

Response by PFC Alan Lane made Apr 12 at 2016 7:57 AM

PFC Alan Lane — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 07:57:59 -0400

I don't believe so. There is a difference.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2016 8:19 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 08:19:46 -0400

I think in today's Army the term "Front line" has been replaced with "outside the wire." In a graffical sense, front line is still used.

Response by PO2 Ron Burling made Apr 12 at 2016 9:30 AM

PO2 Ron Burling — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 09:30:41 -0400

I can't speak to more recent conflicts, but, in my opinion, the term did not accurately reflect the situation in Vietnam...

Response by Cpl Bruce Raftery made Apr 12 at 2016 9:57 AM

Cpl Bruce Raftery — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 09:57:58 -0400

Like Viet N am there is no front line. The good guys look the same as the bad guys!

Response by SFC Antonio Nieto made Apr 12 at 2016 10:16 AM

SFC Antonio Nieto — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 10:16:03 -0400

Not outdated but it depends on the theater of operations, the doctrine during OIF and OEF left us with the understanding that every Soldier, Airman and Sailor is a warrior, but it might change in future engagements

Response by Sgt David G Duchesneau made Apr 12 at 2016 10:24 AM

Sgt David G Duchesneau — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 10:24:37 -0400

All depends where we are? Since Korea and Vietnam, the front lines usually have been the whole freaking Country. Shit, we even fighting ISIS on the front lines of the USA and around the World! With all of these illegal immigrants coming in, the heavy growth of Muslim population and alike, the bastards are every where! Front lines are right where you encounter these extremist terrorist. Anyplace and at anytime is a front line! That's why we must stay so ever diligent, be aware of our surroundings and not become complacent. People have to learn to report any and all suspicious persons and/or activity at once where ever they are!

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2016 10:54 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 10:54:28 -0400

No, front line does not have to be terrain-oriented. Whether a Soldier is literally at the FLOT or FEBA or in a firefight a stone's throw from a FOB, that Soldier is on the front line. Unfortunately, the DoD defines the geographic area for hostile fire pay and we, as Soldiers. believe that we are on the front line even though we are not locked and loaded and not moving in a tactical formation.

Response by TSgt Derrol Turner made Apr 12 at 2016 11:16 AM

TSgt Derrol Turner — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 11:16:16 -0400

Outdated, term I am most familiar with is "Outside the Wire"

Response by SPC Eric Cunningham made Apr 12 at 2016 1:13 PM

SPC Eric Cunningham — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 13:13:58 -0400

No. While we may have been conducting pause 4 operations for the past several years, there will again be a time when we fight nations and that will involve taking and keeping large swaths of territory. The men holding that territory will again be on the front line.

Response by CCMSgt Mike Ramsey made Apr 12 at 2016 4:57 PM

CCMSgt Mike Ramsey — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 16:57:50 -0400

Yes, anyplace "outside the wire" is front line.

Response by AN Anita Feerer made Apr 12 at 2016 5:43 PM

AN Anita Feerer — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 17:43:26 -0400

I would say yes since Koea, Vietnam and so on the front line has really been undefined. Look at the terror attacks of 9/11 and the attacks on the recruiting centers in 2015. Prove that there are no front line to speak of.

Response by GySgt Charles O'Connell made Apr 12 at 2016 7:42 PM

GySgt Charles O'Connell — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 19:42:46 -0400

Frontline, Forward Edge of the Battle Area, Main Line of Resistance...., I'm holding out for, Point of Contact for Maximum Dispersal of Ammunition

Response by MAJ Will Sullivan made Apr 12 at 2016 8:32 PM

MAJ Will Sullivan — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 20:32:06 -0400

No, it is not outdated. Just because in the OIF/OEF environments the front lines are blurred in relation to 360 degree environment it doesn't mean the next conflict will be as dynamic.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Apr 12 at 2016 9:10 PM

SPC Byron Skinner — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 21:10:08 -0400

Sp4 Byron Skinner, The term is not dated, as has flanking, breaking into the enemies rear has either. perhaps the 18th. Century of the Battle line has changed, but at sometime in the future the Line of Battle will be used by some creative American Officers to advance a position who has dug into the study of Military History. The Lines of battle for the ground forces is just two relatively straight lines of 11B's on our side and what eve on the other advancing on each other. It is a basic battle formation. As early ass 50 years ago, the proper way to break a fire fight was to battle line advance. The hope of course the enemy seeing a grouped of pissed off Americans would decide to move in the same direction. I will agree that moving into an enemy in a fire fight requires a definite mind set, if you survive you have bragging rights the rest of your life.

Response by SSG Bill Cooke made Apr 12 at 2016 10:56 PM

SSG Bill Cooke — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 22:56:50 -0400

Believe it or not our front line is actually in the US. Yes our own CIA funds and trains ISIS. No kidding. So our front line enemy is a domestic enemy. And many in our own gov are wanting this nation to die. Yes die so that their pet project the NWO can be establish. Call be stupid or nuts but read the book None Dare Call it Conspiracy and then tell me I am wrong. Their is our front line.

Response by CWO4 Al Heb made Apr 12 at 2016 11:00 PM

CWO4 Al Heb — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 23:00:56 -0400

NO its not out dated. Cut the crap

Response by MAJ Rk Smith made Apr 13 at 2016 1:44 AM

MAJ Rk Smith — Wed, 13 Apr 2016 01:44:29 -0400

ADRP defines forward observer – (DOD) An observer operating with front line troops and trained to adjust ground or naval gunfire and pass back battlefield information. In the absence of a forward air controller, the observer may control close air support strikes. Also called FO. (JP 3-09) See FM 3-09. Otherwise, no, it is not outdated.

Response by PO2 David Allender made Apr 13 at 2016 2:08 AM

PO2 David Allender — Wed, 13 Apr 2016 02:08:38 -0400

During Viet Nam, we hac Charlie all around us. No front line, so to speak. Never knew where Charlie would strike from. Today with the Islam radicals, it is just about the same situation. They strike where and when they want to. In front, on the sides, or from behind. The coming World War 3, according to scripture will affect every body and every nation. Consider that North Korea, China, Russia and Iran will unite to take on the world. These countries are pushing right now to start something. Scripture tells how it will start, on a day with two sunrises, like on July morning in 1945 in Arizona desert. This time it will be a city beloved by most people. No, O feel that the "Front Line" concept is history.

Response by SFC Alfredo Gonzalez made Apr 13 at 2016 8:31 AM

SFC Alfredo Gonzalez — Wed, 13 Apr 2016 08:31:42 -0400

It's not outdated doctrine, but one often hears the doctrinal term asymmetrical battlefield nowadays... Here's another one I haven't heard since retiring in 1999... FEBA...

Response by PO1 Aaron Baltosser made Apr 13 at 2016 8:48 AM

PO1 Aaron Baltosser — Wed, 13 Apr 2016 08:48:18 -0400

I don't think so. That description brings an immediate picture to mind of anyone familiar with any war all the way up to Korea. A front line unit tells me a direct action combat unit. Even in Desert Storm/ Desert Shield it made sense to use.

Response by SSG Jeremy Kohlwes made Apr 13 at 2016 8:53 AM

SSG Jeremy Kohlwes — Wed, 13 Apr 2016 08:53:15 -0400

No, just because our current conflicts and operations don't fall under that classification doesn't mean there won't be future conflicts that will.

Response by SFC Carl L. Hardy Hardy made Apr 13 at 2016 3:29 PM

SFC Carl L. Hardy Hardy — Wed, 13 Apr 2016 15:29:45 -0400

Where ever you are or what ever you call it there will be a front line. Your facing it now and make sure you attack.

Response by SGT Chris Birkinbine made Apr 13 at 2016 6:17 PM

SGT Chris Birkinbine — Wed, 13 Apr 2016 18:17:27 -0400

No, it is not outdated, it has just changed. Front Line used to have a larger meaning, something you can measure on a country map scale. It has just been modified into something that we understand is more versatile, more mobile than before.

When you are under fire, you can be sure there is still a front line, sometimes that front-line is a line, and sometimes it is 360 degrees around your unit.

Response by Sgt Jamie Grippin made Apr 14 at 2016 9:55 AM

Sgt Jamie Grippin — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 09:55:29 -0400

yes, adapt or loose

Response by PO3 Jamie Richter made Apr 14 at 2016 8:14 PM

PO3 Jamie Richter — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 20:14:00 -0400

is the term warrior, soldier, outdated, unfortunately yes. the lines are blurred, we have veterans in and out of uniform, retired, disabled, and working, who may have to present a " front line" at a convenience store, grocery store, neighborhood or easily a battlefield! we fight terrorist, whose 'battlefield is anything but!'

Response by SGT Paul Mackay made Apr 14 at 2016 9:09 PM

SGT Paul Mackay — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 21:09:11 -0400

Response by SFC Charles Temm made Apr 16 at 2016 9:53 PM

SFC Charles Temm — Sat, 16 Apr 2016 21:53:06 -0400

No. Fronts may be fluid or porous but they will exist outside of COIN ops. Even COIN sees fronts to a degree.

Response by GySgt Charles O'Connell made Apr 22 at 2016 4:35 AM

GySgt Charles O'Connell — Fri, 22 Apr 2016 04:35:12 -0400

No, not an outdated term when taken in its proper context. "Front line", "Forward Edge of the Battle Area", "Main Line of Resistance"..... All tems to denote an area of engagement during battle, as in, "Take this SITREP back to the rear so the chairwarmers will know what's going on here on the, "Front line", "Forward Edge of the Battle Area", "Main Line of Resistance". The current crop of bad guys wisely don't want to get involved in a force on force engagement. Overrunning unarmed civilians is more their speed, but should they decide to collectively grow a pair and take on some real warriors then there will be, "Front lines", "Forward Edge of the Battle Areas" "Main Lines of Resistance".

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Apr 22 at 2016 4:37 AM

SSgt Jim Gilmore — Fri, 22 Apr 2016 04:37:44 -0400

If the description is accurate and nothing else describes it as well, it is not out-dated.

Response by SMSgt Sheila Berg made Apr 22 at 2016 6:26 PM

SMSgt Sheila Berg — Fri, 22 Apr 2016 18:26:23 -0400

Front line term has not been applicable since WWII. Area of operation is relevant.

Response by MSG John Wirts made May 10 at 2016 1:28 AM

MSG John Wirts — Tue, 10 May 2016 01:28:53 -0400

Yes it became obsolete in the Vietnam War, there were no "front lines",and no conflict since has had FEBA, or Front lines, they are as out of date as companies marching towards the enemy shoulder to in platoon formation, or horse calvary charging across an open field with drawn sabers!