Is the salute obsolete? Should we salute at all? Should salutes be voluntary?

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 07:56:24 -0400

Salutes traditionally are rendered by hand, by cannon, and by music and other forms, such as rising from a siting position, presentation of arms and swords....are such customs and courtesies absolute? How might they be improved?

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2014 8:21 AM

Col Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 08:21:33 -0400

I believe that we should keep the salute as it is an integral part of the customs and courtesies. I feel that if you get rid of that, then you start the snowball effect with people wanting to get rid of other things.

Response by SPC James Mcneil made Oct 28 at 2014 8:30 AM

SPC James Mcneil — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 08:30:35 -0400

I would honestly be mortified if the salute was done away with completely.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Oct 28 at 2014 9:30 AM

COL Jean (John) F. B. — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:30:47 -0400

Traditions, customs and courtesies have a place in the military and should remain.

One of the problems with our society today is the degradation of our culture and values. This has crept into the military, as well. We need to stop further degradation and retain the customs, courtesies and traditions that are inherent in the military.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2014 10:39 AM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 10:39:28 -0400

My vote, SGM Private RallyPoint Member, is that the salute has been around for centuries and we need to keep it around, if for no other reason than to maintain the tradition. The respect shown by the salute is also important. Taking it away could contribute to a lack of respect down the line.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2014 10:53 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 10:53:58 -0400

There is the old saw that familiarity breeds contempt. Maybe a high five in place of a salute? That should do wonders for morale. Pretty soon Privates would be sitting down to eat with Colonels, chatting about this and that - all very buddy buddy. Yeah, I don't see any problem with doing away with the salute. Everyone could just be pals with no distinction between them.

...and contempt would take the place of command.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2014 11:30 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 11:30:24 -0400

Some tradition should be kept, particular those that reinforce good order and discipline, which is often related to the recognition of structure. People that would want to do away with it are those that feel like everybody should be treated the same - no one is special, everybody gets a trophy for participating, etc..

But if everybody is equal, there is no structure and nobody with authority who can clearly take charge/responsibility, and no point to having different ranks. We might as well all be privates with nobody leading the way.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Oct 28 at 2014 12:15 PM

SGT Ben Keen — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 12:15:44 -0400

The salute is only obsolete if we allow it to become obsolete.

The history of the salute goes back through history and while we are no longer doing it to show our peaceful intent; the salute still remains an important gesture.

This gesture, like other things, only becomes obsolete if the leaders do not enforce it. You can also add calling the room to attention to an officer walks in or announcing "At Ease" when a NCO walks in; stopping your vehicle and saluting towards the flag when reveille or retreat is sounded to this list as well.

So how do we as leaders stop this from becoming obsolete? Set the example for starters. Show those around you the importance of these gestures. Teach those around you the history of these gestures. These weren't some crazy idea that some person had recently; they are part of our history. Lastly, make the correction. Remind those around you, regardless of their rank, of the importance by ensuring they don't get away without doing them.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2014 12:27 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 12:27:02 -0400

I believe that as long as we retain people who value our customs, courtesies, and traditions they will never be obsolete.

I will always salute an officer when appropriate, as they have earned the right to my respect.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2014 1:15 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 13:15:44 -0400

I feel that the salute will never be obsolete. Saluting has been around since the beginning of military. It has changed form over time but it has always been around. I doubt it will be going anywhere. Saluting is a form of deference towards someone who is of a higher rank and a sign of respect. I don't believe that it should ever be voluntary. Someone earned that rank and respect and be shown the deference for getting to where they are.

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Oct 28 at 2014 1:55 PM

CW5 Sam R. Baker — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 13:55:11 -0400

SGM Private RallyPoint Member , for some reason I seem to think that some folks already are taking the voluntary angle to the salute. I don't like being the OTSC dude, but have been rather forced into it at times. I think they should all be kept, nothing is more honorable and knowing as a part of being a Profession of Arms and a Soldier. As for improvement, I challenge trainers and leaders to ensure that their service members (all services in lieu of Soldiers) render a proper salute and respect during national anthems and the like. It does rather bother me that known service members when at a function in civilian attire (pass and revue) don't stand at attention or talk while the colors pass.

My uncle was a retired COL when he passed at age 81. To the day he passed, he had a friend who a was a flag officer, and when General Wheeler came around, my Uncle always popped with respect. He was my mentor in this crazy world and I truly notice when folks regardless of service are sharp and respectful. Keep them unless they look like some of these I have seen, if rendered like this, I would prefer they not be presented!

Response by CW2 Ernest Krutzsch made Oct 28 at 2014 5:59 PM

CW2 Ernest Krutzsch — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 17:59:43 -0400

You know, Senator Barbara Boxer once told a General to refer to her as Senator when he referred to her as Ma'am. I sent an email to her, and told her that Ma'am in the Military was the higheset of greetings for female officers. Sometimes we get hung up on titles, but respect should never be placed on the back burner

Response by SPC James Mcneil made Nov 2 at 2014 9:03 AM

SPC James Mcneil — Sun, 02 Nov 2014 09:03:47 -0500

I see nothing wrong with the system as it is currently.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2014 9:36 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Nov 2014 09:36:47 -0500

I believe as a custom and sign of respect, it is completely necessary. I think the way things are it is fine.

Plus its funny when you see a major look up, see a group of enlisted coming his way, and he veers off so he doesn't have to salute back. Just saying.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2014 10:07 AM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Nov 2014 10:07:03 -0500

I think that we need to keep the salute, all forms of the salute. There is so much that is being taken away from our military. This helps to create Good Order and Discipline within the Profession of Arms.

Next you will tell me that I can't make my Soldiers do physical activity for doing the wrong thing, and that it might be demoralizing....oh wait....

Response by PFC Zanie Young made Nov 2 at 2014 10:27 AM

PFC Zanie Young — Sun, 02 Nov 2014 10:27:30 -0500

No offense, Sergeant Major, but what kind of question is that? Military members should salute whenever it is appropriate. With us veterans, that is optional and respectable. It has been that way since before Christ. On a funny note, just as long we don't use the "Hiel Hitler" salute, don't change a thing.

Response by SGT Frank Leonardo made Nov 2 at 2014 10:54 AM

SGT Frank Leonardo — Sun, 02 Nov 2014 10:54:38 -0500

Yes we should still salute to this day and forever. It goes back to the days of knights and has been rendered ever since. But to stop would be a disgrace in my eyes.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 10:21 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Nov 2014 10:21:41 -0500

Yes we must salute! It is probably the oldest tradition in military history and one of the most significant signs of respect that one service member can render to another. I don't think saluting could ever really be considered obsolete. It helps us maintain discipline, respect and it is a physical symbol of the code of ethics we live by. Maybe if more of us knew the history and relevance of the salute we would try harder to salute properly and display the proper courtesy to each other as Soldiers.

Response by SSG Ronald Rollins made Nov 4 at 2014 6:54 PM

SSG Ronald Rollins — Tue, 04 Nov 2014 18:54:42 -0500

I say we need to keep the salute. It is important to show respect. But I have seen many who were unworthy of it. Officers who actually went out with their soldiers on unofficial nights out. Got hammered and called them by first names or nicknames and actually stayed at their homes then demanded respect like nothing happened and told not to say anything. And my favorite is the cadets with family or girlfriends who demand a salute because they are "practically an officer". It seems that the the new officers want to hang out and have fun but still demand the respect they lost.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2016 11:52 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Dec 2016 11:52:26 -0500

I know that I'm going to draw a lot of fire for this, however I do believe that a saluting should be voluntary, it should be an earned gesture to our leaders, and not an obligation. If I salute a dirt bag officer, because I am regulatory requirement too, that's not me showing respect. That's me following the rules, only to avoid repercussions. Saluting should be allowed and done as a sign of respect, gratitude or admiration. And should be welcome from any military member, of any rank to another.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2016 11:53 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Dec 2016 11:53:56 -0500

is it obsolete hell no, the only time I would not do it would be in an active combat area, note not zone, area, flag pole yes, jss no, in 85-87 while serving as a medic usmc, if you were out in the field just training and you popped a salute chances were good for an ass chewing, train as you fight, fight as you train

Response by SPC Steven Depuy made Dec 17 at 2016 1:01 PM

SPC Steven Depuy — Sat, 17 Dec 2016 13:01:27 -0500

Geeze, I know I am old and things have passed me by, but that seems so stupid of a concept, I struggle to respond to it.

Response by SSG James Petrik made Dec 17 at 2016 2:18 PM

SSG James Petrik — Sat, 17 Dec 2016 14:18:35 -0500

Kids grow up playing Army, and when they Join the Army the First Thing that is taught to a young recruit is the salute. I could not wait to salute my first officer when I was in Basic Training.

During my Career I was told that there is no such thing as a STUPID Question,....well that barrier has been broken. By regulation the Salute is the highest honor to an officer,...no we may not salute the person in the charge of that rank but we salute that rank, as stated in the movie "Band of Brothers" and when in the movie "We were Soldiers". the Battalion Commander relayed a story of how the native in an Indigenous Tribe would refer to the elder as "Grandpa" out of respect and guidance. Sam Elliot who play CSM Plumly responds to his officer that "he would Kill you SOBs if they did" he relayed that at story at a conference in Houston, TX
During my time in the military and being stationed in a ROTC the enlisted was required to salute the cadets to get them used to being saluted. I always followed orders and there is no greater honor for a NCO is when after the hard work and training a person is promoted and earned that rank and charge. In 2006 while at Ft. Carson with the 4th ID the enlisted personnel was informed by a new wave of 2nd Lieutenants (more like MS-V) that the 4th ID was a real unit and we did not Salute in the field.
From 1986 to 2013, Korea, Thailand, South America, Sinai, Israel, Iraq, Europe and Kuwait. In the field and in garrison, 6TH ID, 2ND ID, XVIII ABN CORPS, 25TH ID, 3RD ID, SSI, ROTC, and the 89th ARCOM we all saluted the rank as outlined in the regulation.
I had no greater rush and pride to see a family member officer or friend returning from OCS or WOC, in uniform and to see him or her and To square off and render a salute. The only place we were officially told not to Salute Officers was in Afghanistan at Kandahar Air Field, the exception was for a General Officer and their Motorcade
I would surmise that if the Salute is obsolete that it is because of some LAZY ASSED SENIOR OFFICER DOES NOT WANT TO RETURN THAT SALUTE. IF IT IS TRUELY A SEVERE PAIN IN THE ASS TO RETURN THAT SALUTE THEN IT IS SIMPLE RESIGN YOUR COMMISION AND GET A DIFFERENT JOB.

TAKE AWAY THE SALUTE THEN WHAT IS NEXT?,...TAKE A KNEE AT THE NATIONAL ANTHEM, OR DUCK INTO THE SHOPPETE AT 0630 AND 1700?

REMBER LEGACY TROOPERS; YOU WILL HAVE A LOT OF RETIREES PISSED OFF IF WE ARE RECALLED BACK TO ACTIVE DUTY TO STRAIGHTEN YOUR ASSES OUT!!!!!

Response by SPC Mark Louvier made Dec 17 at 2016 2:58 PM

SPC Mark Louvier — Sat, 17 Dec 2016 14:58:00 -0500

When i was a E 1 in A I T a young Butter Bar yelled at me for not saluting him . About a week later i was walking to the PX and the same Lieutenant was riding by on his bicycle with a very large bag of groceries, i snapped to attention and gave him the best salute anyone ever gave, the young Lieutenant sat bolt upright and returned my salute and promptly crashed his bike. I took off running laughing my ass off !! so in response to the question YES we should continue to salute !! and if that young Lieutenant reads this i would like to say i'm sorry..........BUT I'M NOT .........BAHAHAHA

Response by PO1 Phillip Finch made Dec 17 at 2016 3:14 PM

PO1 Phillip Finch — Sat, 17 Dec 2016 15:14:18 -0500

No! A show of respect from both parties. You cannot have buddies and still be a functioning unit. There will always be someone that says, " I thought we were friends." when he is told to do something he does not want to do. There has to be respect for the leader and a salute is a good indicator.

Response by SPC Roger Giffen made Dec 17 at 2016 5:52 PM

SPC Roger Giffen — Sat, 17 Dec 2016 17:52:05 -0500

You are not saying you respect the man. Heaven knows there were several officers that I thought were dumber than a pile of rocks. However..you are respecting the uniform. That should never change.

Response by 2d Lt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2016 1:01 AM

2d Lt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 Dec 2016 01:01:31 -0500

It's not about the salute, or the rank, or the customs and courtesies. It's not about the dress and appearance, the fraternizing, or the parking spots. It's about the structure, the discipline, and the separation of leader and follower so those lines are never crossed or become blurred when the lives of sons, daughters, mothers, and fathers are at stake.

Response by MAJ Lynn Julius made Dec 18 at 2016 1:18 AM

MAJ Lynn Julius — Sun, 18 Dec 2016 01:18:31 -0500

Keep the salute! It's tradition. Let me ask the SGM, what are your motives to drop the requirement/tradition from the Army?

Response by Sgt Joseph Baker made Dec 18 at 2016 3:33 AM

Sgt Joseph Baker — Sun, 18 Dec 2016 03:33:52 -0500

It is a recognition and reminder of rank. Like it or not, when you enlist you place yourself under the authority of the officers in your military. This separation between enlisted and officers must be maintained. You don't have to be the enlisted man's pal for you men to love and respect you, you just have to be a good officer. But, you may be called to follow orders in battle from an officer you don't admire and respect, but tough **** that's the way it is; the salute being a reminder of that. Hopefully salutes are given and returned with respect. When I saluted a Marine officer I always heard in my mind two voices saying Semper Fi.

Response by Maj Marty Hogan made Dec 18 at 2016 1:54 PM

Maj Marty Hogan — Sun, 18 Dec 2016 13:54:42 -0500

Absolutely keep it. Confusing question- tradition, respect, I could go on. Picture however is what caught my eye- one of the 185th ARW KC-135s where I am stationed.

Response by SFC George Smith made Dec 19 at 2016 1:07 AM

SFC George Smith — Mon, 19 Dec 2016 01:07:02 -0500

they are a showing of respect... they should be kept...

Response by SGT Gary Sokol made Jan 13 at 2017 9:29 AM

SGT Gary Sokol — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 09:29:54 -0500

one of the funniest things I witnessed...a female LT engaged in conversation with a senior NCO as I was passing by. he rendered a proper salute, which she returned. then she gave him a hug before walking away. not entirely sure how to handle the situation, I pretended not to notice. as she passed me, she smiled and said, "he's my dad." turns out she was officially off-duty and was visiting from her unit, but wore BDU's as they were comfortable for travel.

Response by LTC Joseph Gross made Jan 13 at 2017 11:52 AM

LTC Joseph Gross — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 11:52:08 -0500

Salutes are as obsolete as the notion of showing respect for your superiors and following orders. The outward show of respect and courtesy is essential.

Response by LTC Stephan Porter made Dec 22 at 2018 12:50 AM

LTC Stephan Porter — Sat, 22 Dec 2018 00:50:54 -0500

No! Absolutely! Absolutely not!

I realize you’re likely trying to spark discussion, but the thought is so foreign, I am amazed a SGM is asking!