Is the military at the point of a witch hunt for harassment?

2016-04-21T10:49:56-04:00

Ok I read a discussion on here and truthfully I am a little worried.
Are we so scared of SHARP violations and so sensitive to Soldier's views that leaders have to prove they are innocent before they are found guilty?
If a Soldier believes he or she is being harassed yet provides no proof is our standard response to report?
Should a Soldier have more rights than a NCO because of feelings?

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/how-far-is-too-far-when-an-e-5-is-harassing-you-he-is-brand-new-and-puffing-out-his-new-sergeant-chest-but-has-harassed-me-to-no-end

How far is too far when an E-5 is harassing you? He is brand new and puffing out his new sergeant...

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Apr 21 at 2016 10:50 AM

2016-04-21T10:50:40-04:00

I retired in 2014, so my opinion is somewhat dated.
But yes, at that time I felt the accuser was being afforded an automatic assumption of innocence and correctness, and the accused left to defend themselves against an automatic assumption of guilt.

It seemed leaders at all levels felt the need to do this in order to not be looked at as being part of the problem.

Response by SGT(P) Jeremy Anderson made Apr 21 at 2016 10:59 AM

2016-04-21T10:59:21-04:00

It's that way nowadays. That's why I got out of active and went reserve. There are only NCOs and Officers in my unit.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2016 11:06 AM

2016-04-21T11:06:48-04:00

Unfortunately you are guilty until proven innocent. The Army in general is coddling its Soldiers these days to the point where leaders have to think carefully how they discipline or correct them. Granted any type of violations is a serious issue but the fact of the reality is that probably half of them are false claims because the Soldier is pissed off.

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2016 11:07 AM

2016-04-21T11:07:36-04:00

I stated my thoughts on said discussion. Troops who come here for advice need to understand that we are all sea lawyers, they are probably fitting the facts to suit their narrative and that the very vast overriding majority of us have limited legal experience. They need to talk to their chain of command. I believe that there is not a fine line between harassment and leadership, that line is in fact quite broad. There are many different leadership styles and if you don't like your Sergeants style, boo-f*cking-hoo. This is not Burger King, you don't get your way. The service member acted out of line and the Sergeant responded in kind. If the service member is really that great then they will get promoted, but for some reason they did not.

Mark my words, at some point, some ass is going to toss out their version of the story and some well meaning vet or service member is going to give them bum scoop, like going to see the EO or IG for Gods sake, and the original poster is going to get screwed, with little to no lube, and answer "that is what they told me to on Rallypoint".

The only expectable answer for that inquiry was "GO TALK TO YOUR CHAIN OF COMMAND". In my opinion, anyone who answered other than that was irresponsible.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Apr 21 at 2016 1:10 PM

2016-04-21T13:10:39-04:00

I do not think this type of thing is just limited to the military. I think this sort of thing is being seen more and more throughout the country and the world. It is nothing new to see a group of people walk over another group of people, just look in your history books for examples of that. However, I do feel that people are becoming more and more scared to cause a scene or to be brought up on charges that they rather sink back into their hole rather than to stand up for what is right.

A personal example of this happened to me a few years ago during the Occupy Movement. During that time, a group of people set up "housing" in what was once one of the public parks downtown. While the space still remains to be a park, it is no longer accessible to the public. Anyways, people saw this as some sort of freedom of speech activity which it was; however harassment is not freedom of speech. While working downtown during this time, I saw these people walk up to others as we tried to make our way to work. One day, as I made my to work carrying my assault pack with my computer and other things in it, a group from Veterans for Peace came up to me. I excused myself as I was running late for work. Later that day, while making my way back home, this same group of people came up to me and tried to yet again talk to me. I stood there and let them talk but after a few minutes I had to excuse myself so I could get home. This interaction continued for 2 more days until the third end when things got a little crazy. After having this run in on back to back days, I was getting a little more than ticked off but I was willing to listen. Willing that is until one of the groups members challenged my service. I did not take to kindly to that. I'm proud of my service. I did not ask to go to war but I signed up to follow the orders of those over me and they told me to go to war. As we had our heated discussion I noticed others were harassing other people and that is when I said I had enough.

Yes practice your right to say what you want but we should not be afraid to disagree with you.

Response by MSgt Rena Schmidt made Apr 21 at 2016 2:32 PM

2016-04-21T14:32:55-04:00

because we can't "hurt anyone's feelings"

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2016 6:45 PM

2016-04-23T18:45:06-04:00

This post triggered me. I need my safe space.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2016 1:56 AM

2016-04-24T01:56:04-04:00

I wouldn't say its at the 'witch-hunt' point. Rather, I'd say it's getting there. First, a few years ago I had to testify on behalf of a fellow NCO. He was accused of sexual harassment by a SPC who would have been better suited to do reality TV alongside Tila Tequila. Long story short, her claim was proven entirely false and the NCO was cleared. (The SPC was reduced to PFC in an unrelated case, by the way.) But her false claim was allowed to proceed to the point that it did despite several witnesses (myself included) stating that she was lying, among other things. Second, I for one don't understand the need for so many SHARP classes. Yes, I get the whole thing of 'we need to be more careful" and "taking action" and all that, but we don't need to be reminded every waking moment about how we need to behave ourselves. Last time I checked, we are all adults. Punish those who truly deserve it, I say. Third, more than once I have heard some female say she wants to be in charge of EO or SHARP, and then said female goes and acts the fool, be it a GO1 violation or excessive drinking at a Yellow Ribbon event. My take? Among other things, as long as the law allows false complaints to go forward and then worries about repairing the falsely-accused soldier's damaged reputation later, if at all, I will always have a problem with SHARP.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2016 11:57 AM

2016-04-24T11:57:45-04:00

I don't know if you had a soldier going through a trauma like this but it's terrible. If you or an example a child of yours who later enters and gets assaulted and harassed by their peers or leaders you'll have a total different perspective. I'm sick of the Army / leaders thinking if a witch hunt like you said. Me personally I was a victim of both and it was a struggle everyday because of people like you thinking that I'm lying to throw someone under the bus. Stop thinking this program is nothing. Again when I was going through this I was absolutely terrified of him and his friends.