Is the Electoral College flawed?

Cpl Tom Surdi — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 14:14:56 -0400

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!! For the sake of argument I am going to say that everybody in the country voted in a Presidential election. The first list you see are the States that are needed to win an election with just 270 EC votes, with population and number of EC votes each state gets. As you see, it's only 11 states in all, with a total population of 175,547,114. If a candidate only wins each state by 1 vote, then to get all 270 EC votes, they would only need 87,773,568 total votes to get all EC votes.

The second list is the rest of a 39 States, and DC. Their total population is less than the first so they get less EC votes at only 268. So, even if the ENTIRE population of each of those 39 states voted for the other person, the candidate who won the first 11 states would win the overall election. Even if they only won each state by one vote. That would put the difference in popular vote by over 100 MILLION votes country wide. This is why a winner take all rule is flawed and why the EC needs to be reworked.

1 California 37,253,956 55
2 Texas 25,145,561 38
3 New York 19,378,102 29
4 Florida 18,801,310 29
5 Illinois 12,830,632 20
6 Pennsylvania 12,702,379 20
7 Ohio 11,536,504 18
8 Michigan 9,883,640 16
9 Georgia 9,687,653 16
10 North Carolina 9,535,483 15
11 New Jersey 8,791,894 14

175,547,114 270
87,773,568 to take all 270

12 Virginia 8,001,024 13
13 Washington 6,724,540 12
14 Massachusetts 6,547,629 11
15 Indiana 6,483,802 11
16 Arizona 6,392,017 11
17 Tennessee 6,346,105 11
18 Missouri 5,988,927 10
19 Maryland 5,773,552 10
20 Wisconsin 5,686,986 10
21 Minnesota 5,303,925 10
22 Colorado 5,029,196 9
23 Alabama 4,779,736 9
24 South Carolina 4,625,364 9
25 Louisiana 4,533,372 8
26 Kentucky 4,339,367 8
27 Oregon 3,831,074 7
28 Oklahoma 3,751,351 7
29 Connecticut 3,574,097 7
30 Iowa 3,046,355 6
31 Mississippi 2,967,297 6
32 Arkansas 2,915,918 6
33 Kansas 2,853,118 6
34 Utah 2,763,885 6
35 Nevada 2,700,551 6
36 New Mexico 2,059,179 5
37 West Virginia 1,852,994 5
38 Nebraska 1,826,341 5
39 Idaho 1,567,582 4
40 Hawaii 1,360,301 4
41 Maine 1,328,361 4
42 New Hampshire 1,316,470 4
43 Rhode Island 1,052,567 4
44 Montana 989,415 3
45 Delaware 897,934 3
46 South Dakota 814,180 3
47 Alaska 710,231 3
48 North Dakota 672,591 3
49 Vermont 625,741 3
50 Washington, D. C 601,723 3
51 Wyoming 563,626 3

133,198,424 268

220,971,970 a different in popular vote by 133,198,402

Here are the references I used for my numbers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States)
http://www.ipl.org/div/stateknow/popchart.html

Electoral College (United States) - Wikipedia

The United States Electoral College is the mechanism established by the United States Constitution for the election of the president and vice president of the United States by small groups of appointed representatives, electors, from each state and the District of Columbia. The Constitution specifies that each state legislature individually determines its own process for appointing electors.[1][2] In practice, all state legislatures use...

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Apr 4 at 2018 2:17 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 14:17:50 -0400

Absolutely not! Your problem with it is the result. Sorry. In my lifetime, my "favorite" won half the elections for President and the other half of the time, the opposition won. Really, it's true. An even split. Now let me tell you how I handled it. I sucked it up. I certainly didn't cry about the results for more than a year...

Response by PFC Jim Wheeler made Apr 4 at 2018 2:24 PM

PFC Jim Wheeler — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 14:24:17 -0400

Mathematically possible and actually possible are two very different things, though.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Apr 4 at 2018 3:04 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 15:04:42 -0400

Cpl Tom Surdi, I want to congratulate you for bringing this analysis to our attention. It is the first time I've seen a reason to consider changing the Electoral College for something other than, "Hillary won the popular vote, but didn't get to be President, so the Electoral College has to go!"

The reason for the Electoral College (EC) was to protect small states with smaller populations from the states with larger populations. The Founders didn't accurately foresee the highly polarized political environment we have today or the dominance of some states by one or two large cities. For example, "Red" Illinois is governed by "Blue" Chicago. The original Constitutional provision for the EC made more sense when state legislatures elected the Senators; hence there were at least two occasions when state government sent representatives to Washington to speak for the State as a whole.

The illustration of the 11 and 39 states shows how Presidential campaign strategy could be shaped to focus on those states only. A similar problem exists with election by popular vote only. The Candidates would only need to win the big population centers, such as the Boston to Miami corridor, to win the election. So they most likely would campaign in those areas almost exclusively. It really wouldn't matter whom the voters in Fayetteville, AR voted for as long as the Candidate won New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, Miami, Houston, Dallas-Ft Worth, etc.

Proportional awarding of electoral votes is a possible solution. Each State's Secretary of State could award electors to a Presidential candidate based on their share of the popular vote in the state as counted by precinct. So a candidate winning 25% of the precincts in a state would get 25% of the electoral votes from that State rounded up to a whole number of electors.

Unfortunately, the only way I see this and several other Constitutional issues being resolved is through and Article Five Constitutional Convention.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2018 3:19 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 15:19:15 -0400

Geesh. My car might break down when I go to supper so I will just never go to supper again. There problem fixed.

There is an old saying - don't fix what ain't broke. That came about because many times people found the fix was worse that the perceived problem.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2018 4:16 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 16:16:06 -0400

By the way, there is no law that says that all of a states electoral votes go to the winner of the election in that state and there are states that allow the electoral votes to be split.

Will that ever happen? Probably not.

Response by MSG Stan Hutchison made Apr 4 at 2018 4:36 PM

MSG Stan Hutchison — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 16:36:01 -0400

This could be a constructive discussion is folks would open their minds to it. Instead I see a lot of folks thinking it is just "crying" about losing the last election. For me, it is not. I have supported modifying the EC fro a long time now.
I like the idea the EC delegates be awarded based on percentage of votes for each candidate in each state. Why not?

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2018 7:54 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 19:54:37 -0400

Gaming the Electoral College
Don't like the results? Change the rules!

https://www.270towin.com/alternative-electoral-college-allocation-methods/?year=2016

Gaming the Electoral College: Alternate Allocation Methods

How the 2016 electoral college map would change if a state or states enacted one of the currently proposed alternatives to the winner take all method.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2018 2:29 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Jun 2018 14:29:39 -0400

First off, please remember we are a Democratic Republic, not a Democracy. You argument holds weight for a Democracy but not for a Republic. By moving to a popular vote you are advocating for a change to our entire system of governance. Mainly saying the power is no longer with the People but rather with the Mob (as in a large group of population). It bans the Rule of Law and insists that the Rule of Man should prevail.

For a quick rundown of the differences this is an adequate site:
https://keydifferences.com/difference-between-democracy-and-republic.html

I especially liked the very succinct chart. Take a look and let me know which type of rule you would rather have.

Difference Between Democracy and Republic (with Comparison Chart) - Key Differences

The difference between democracy and republic is complicated. Democracy is defined as a political system which is made by/of/for the people. The republic is the representative democracy with the chief of the state known as president.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2018 1:36 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Aug 2018 13:36:01 -0400

I would like to point out this little fact:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a4/2010_census_reapportionment.svg/400px-2010_census_reapportionment.svg.png

United States congressional apportionment is the process[1] by which seats in the United States House of Representatives are distributed among the 50 states according to the most recent constitutionally mandated decennial census. Each state is apportioned a number of seats which approximately corresponds to its share of the aggregate population of the 50 states.[2] However, every state is constitutionally guaranteed at least one seat.

The number of voting seats in the House of Representatives is currently set at 435, where it has been since 1913—except for a temporary (1959–1962) increase to 437 after Alaska and Hawaii were admitted into the Union. The total number of state members is capped by the Reapportionment Act of 1929.[3]

Because the size of a state's total congressional delegation determines the size of its representation in the U.S. Electoral College, congressional apportionment also affects the U.S. presidential election process as well.

400px-2010_census_reapportionment.svg.png

Response by Sgt Jerry Genesio made Mar 4 at 2019 12:24 AM

Sgt Jerry Genesio — Mon, 04 Mar 2019 00:24:40 -0500

"The renewed push comes after 2016 Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton lost the election that year despite winning the popular vote, the second time it has happened since the turn of the century."
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/432061-dem-states-move-to-bypass-electoral-college?userid=235202

Blue states band together looking to bypass Electoral College

A plan to circumvent the Electoral College is gaining momentum amongblue states afterDemocratssuffered two crushingdefeats in presidential elections over the past two decades.