Is the ASVAB outdated? Should it be the only way to determine a person MOS?

1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Apr 2014 21:02:52 -0400

As a recruiter one of the biggest problems I have seen is to get a person/high school student test (ASVAB) qualified to join the military. Most of the teachers I have came in contact with have mentioned that the material on the ASVAB is outdated and they are not teaching the kids that particular material anymore. Furthermore, calculators are not allowed for the math section of the ASVAB and most if not all teachers are teaching math the digital way (with calculators), which is causing lower ASVAB scores. As recruiters, we are not allowed to tutor or give any study material such as ASVAB for Dummies, however, it is very noticeable that these kids struggle when taking this test.

We see a lot of kids who just "guess" on the test and luckily get a high score, but their grades in school are horrible, and the kids who actually do well in school have a harder time with the ASVAB because they actually take their time and take the test without guessing.

Do you feel as if the ASVAB is inaccurate/accurate assessment in determining a persons job?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2014 9:07 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Apr 2014 21:07:19 -0400

If it's outdated then wouldn't the same logic apply to the SAT/ACT?

I'm not going to lie, I don't remember much about the ASVAB, but I do remember not liking how it graded you in a way that measured you not so much on the right answers but as much where you placed with your peers.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2014 11:58 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Apr 2014 23:58:25 -0400

I missed every math problem on that test (lol). The shit on that test was middle school. I can't remember that far back. I hated the ASVAB.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Apr 15 at 2014 12:30 AM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Tue, 15 Apr 2014 00:30:00 -0400

Interesting question I took it like 35 years ago. Would be fun to try it again. See if I could ace the Mechanical Translation Section again. I seriously doubt it though.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2014 12:33 AM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Apr 2014 00:33:42 -0400

From what I remember from when I took the ASVAB the math portion was consistent with what I learned in middle school. I went through a decent school system, so I guess at the highest level it could be considered high school material.

One thing I do know is that I wouldn't want a medic that couldn't do simple math without a calculator. As a fresh out of AIT PV2 medic in a deployed environment I was given morphine vials, not auto-injectors, and had to rely on dosages based off ml to kg ratios.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2014 8:19 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Apr 2014 08:19:22 -0400

It has only been three years or so since I took the ASVAB, and I don't remember it being outdated. It was fairly consistent with what I was taught in middle school/high school. I went over a study book for the math problems, but I'm not very good at math. I still managed to score fairly high without using a calculator. Some people are just good test takers. If you can narrow down the answers and take a decent guess, well then good on you. Logic and deduction is a very useful skill.

If people are struggling with it, then good. It isn't supposed to be easy. If they want it enough, they'll put in the extra effort needed to pass.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2014 9:24 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Apr 2014 09:24:12 -0400

Honestly, I had hated math for my entire middle and high school career and it wasn't until college that Math really clicked for me. Lucky for me though I decided to join a year after I started college and I scored a 120 on my math portion. In fact, the lowest score I achieved was a 115 on the Mechanical one. I would never have done so well if I had not just taken Algebra in college though.

As a current high school English Teacher I can guarantee you that the problem is not with the test not being taught and being outdated. It is with the students of this generation being able to Google everything. Students can skate by all these classes and assignment by using a simple search engine and they are not taking away the skills they actually need to figure the problem out. And you would think that the tests they take would render that method unusable but in a world where it's all multiple choice even the dimmest student has a 25% percent chance of getting a perfect score.

Critical thinking skills are what these students lack, especially in the lovely state of Florida where I teach. I have so many students who come to me wanting to join the military but they can't even tell me what the main idea of a story or a decimal is.
I took the ASVAB seven years ago and it seemed up to date for me and appropriate.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Apr 21 at 2014 9:30 AM

SGT Ben Keen — Mon, 21 Apr 2014 09:30:07 -0400

What is really interesting about this is it gives an interesting point of view on what is going on with our schools and how things have changed. I for one love technology and I'm all about using it to make my life easier. The fact that some teachers are teaching kids to do math only on calculators is kind of funny to me. Lord knows, math wasn't my strongest subject and to this day, I use the calculator on my phone for just about every situation I need to add or subtract things.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2014 9:58 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Apr 2014 09:58:09 -0400

I can't speak for many people but in my experience the ASVAB did a good job of placing me in my MOS and the other soldiers I went to AIT with. I'm a 94A. I had absolutely zero electronics experience before enlisting and my EI was my lowest line score. My classmates were some of the biggest clowns and jokers I've ever met and at first glance were definitely not the people you want in charge of making sure missile launchers shoot straight. But the whole class was a first time 'GO' on every exam. Not one person failed any aspect of our training. There could probably be changes or revisions, the SAT is changing in 2016 I heard, and maybe the Army could look to update the test. But as it stands, the ASVAB, in my case, did its job.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2014 10:31 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Apr 2014 10:31:57 -0400

I don't think it is outdated at all. It is no different than the ACT or SAT, except for the use of calculators. If you are having kids that can't pass, then give them March2Success. If they are in high school, take March2Success to that school and help them improve. If they can't score a 31, don't blame the test. Adjust your prospecting efforts. It works just fine in my A.O.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2014 10:42 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Apr 2014 10:42:23 -0400

What I've noticed is more and more people these days not knowing how to do simple arithmetic. This used to be standard in all schools and memorizing multiplication and division tables was also something that was just done. Handing a kid a calculator too early in the process takes away this skill. Struggle is good. It builds character. That is what we tell them once they are in the Army anyway. From what I remember of the ASVAB the math involved only went up to algebra. Other tests out there encompass geometry and trigonometry. There was a section on spacial reasoning too right? I apologize, the last time I took it was in 2000 so it has been a while. I can't imagine it have changing overly much though and I thought it a pretty fair test if you paid attention in class.

Now one part of your post I would like to see changed is possible access to an education center before coming in. If the only thing keeping a potential recruit out is poor test taking skills or lack of confidence then maybe a few study sessions could help them. After all we are looking to recruit able minded and able bodied Soldiers.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2014 3:12 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Apr 2014 15:12:09 -0400

The more people ask to change the more it makes me think I'm not gonna make it to 20 years... If you really want to help make sure they pass this simple ass test and don't "waiver" them to get to me... I can't tell you the problems with people that have gotten a "waiver". I have had 4 Soldiers recently that scored almost half of what is a "requirement" for my MOS, and all of them were useless to me even for simple tasks.. Lowering standards to get more people is NOT going to help us out, its only helping the recruiters make "numbers" not Soldiers. If anything add more to it, don't take away from it. PLEASE!!

Response by SSG Jake Turner made Apr 22 at 2014 6:02 AM

SSG Jake Turner — Tue, 22 Apr 2014 06:02:15 -0400

I do think that the ASVAB should be updated to mirror the ACT/SAT by comparison. The premise for this test is that the military wants a smart group of professionals. The military needs to get away from the stigma that it is operated on an 8th grade level of understanding and the only way to do that is by setting the standards bar high enough to reach this goal. On a different note just because you have a high school diploma or a college degree doesn't necessarily mean that you are situationally smart. It is a combination of being book smart and being able to apply it in real life experiences that makes great Soldiers.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2014 9:54 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Aug 2014 21:54:54 -0400

I took the ASVAB back in 98 and later in 2010 to improve it. I can say that the test is updated. They didn't do the code portion anymore that i took back in the day. It seems like it is updated. I did quite well. I fear that the Army would even consider reducing the standard or making it easier. If you can't figure simple math problems in your head how you going to handle complex problems in the field.

I can only imagine getting in a fire fight and asking a soldier how much ammo he has left. Could you image the soldier asking you for a calculator to figure out how much he has left. Sorry, it is hard for you but if you let them in you are going to make hard for us.