Is QMP the right or just answer for those selected that have 16 or 17 years? The past month has been rough for many senior NCOs.

Your probibly right. I look at the context of my MOS and the trends that are current and the situation is always depending

Just remember that when you get your pink slip pal.

SGM Scott dooley I will.

And I will add that when my number is up and the years have past and I have done all that I can in this force. I will leave with honor for what I have contributed to the fight. But I will alway stand by my Convictions when it's time to hang it up. Do not mistake me for a Soldier that will milk the system. I know where I stand.

Thank you for your service and yes, one situation and your out, I believe that it all depends on the situation our incident. I also believe that all the NCOs that have come down on this program have an option to fight to stay in. I believe most will win if they have shown career progression and been able to move on and not get in more trouble down the road. I am a stickler for things that happen for a reason, I believe that Soldiers will get in trouble throughout their career, even if it's severe or petty. It that Soldier shows promise and excels in his life and career, he should have a second chance. Many Soldiers can learn from that Soldiers experience and be taught that they can rebound from adversity.

Thank you, SFC Patrick. I must add this. Out of 12 NCO's selected, only one made it. He was allowed to continue service beacause it was clerical error on the Army. The rest of us were only allowed to submit factors of mitigation if it only dealt with the reason for selection. At the end of the day, it is a tool to reduce numbers. I am proud to have served and have no hard feelings towards the Army.

Keep your head up it happen to me as well. Like you said I am not bitter I would do it again, but the Army got rid of some great NCOs with the QMP downsizing. It was heartbreaking, but Im resilient. That's what they preach.

Very well said.

I don't believe it's a "proper teaching, coaching and mentoring" issue. It's far deeper than that. It's that the senior ranks are farther removed from the troops and societal norms and values. I'm not implying those norms and values are in line with the standards and Army values, but in order for a true leader to be great, they must recognize how to manage their people (talent). Many seniors get set in their ways and try to force the junior personnel to fit their ideal mold, and in today's world that mold may be outdated. For example, reference the "Greatest Generation" and their views toward Gen X, Y, etc. Also, look at our current elected leaders, as most are completely out of touch with modern American society.

I don't believe it's too much to ask to have senior leadership, who are serving at the pleasure of the public, to have excellent track records. Tolerance of indiscretions/violations may be okay in the elected arenas, but it shouldn't be in the military. If we tolerate one deviance from the standard, then why not all of them? Who's to judge what deviation is going to be tolerated? It's a slippery slope and the only true, and fair way to ensure the American public is paying for and receiving the highest quality military service is to institute these boards across all ranks.

Correct, but you don't think there's a lack of maturity in the equation?

SFC (Join to see) Your not wrong .. but your not pointed in the right direction.
Absolutely agree that the systematic issues which exist today causing, leading to, supporting the decline of the professionalism in todays enlisted ranks must be addressed...
However that is not what QMP is about.... Like it or not, the powers to be said trim the numbers... If the numbers MUST be trimmed and that is the order, and we follow orders..Then how BEST to trim them... And my opinion is ridding the organization of the non performing, then those with less than stellar paths all while continuing to bring in new blood and addressing the issues you see your self that need fixing.. THAT is the path to success.
The idea is great, I wont go so far as to say the process if perfect .. heck even if it is great.. some will still get caught up that should get a second chance. and that sucks..

But lets face it, the ones QMP are focused on,,,,, the ones the board criteria point to with focus.. If you have a 30 man platoon, and the commander said you can only choose 25 to go on the mission.. a vital one, a required one, one you will be honored to accomplish and believe in your heart it must be done right or else, say protecting the nation, or even the unit on your left or right.....do you pick your best 25? or include some of the all others and a few with issues just to be fair? Your answer is valid no matter what it is, because it is yours. I'll give you the answer I choose from 1986 when I pinned Sgt E5 to the last day in 1st Cav as the G3 Sergeant Major … only the best, only the ones I could trust, only the ones that perform EVERYDAY.

Sir you have some guys that should be gone I've seen dirt bags stay in and good soldiers get kick out

Thank you for the vote down SSG Kelly, but I don't disagree with you entirely. Every case is very different as people are more than a file and I have personally served multiple elimination actions.
I have a meeting to go to, but here is a fact.
A medical separation of 10% is roughly 67% larger than 100% separation pay. A lot of Soldiers about to RCP have figured this out as I see it all the time.

Agree whol heartedly

I would have loved to serve with a Commander like you Sir,

You're right CSM Charles Hayden. Following that, NCOs will have to fight the battle of having unsavory types in their ranks again. I have always been a fan of rehabilitating criminals but the military isn't the place to do it.

SSG Murdock, do you know what the turn around time is form the point of submitting documents to finding out what the outcome is?

So I had my Company Commander, and my Battalion S-3, and even possibly my Battalion commander write a recommendation letter. Hope I can get through this ok.

We all do SSG (Join to see)

Who's policing the ones doing the policing?

SFC Espi Espi - What are your concerns?.. Specifically if you please and please cite the occurrence of that issue that supports the concern.

I ask it in that way not to be sharp tonged or flippant with your response, but because anyone can imagine a wrong that might be done, a possible malicious person in the process.. But to hold weight .. the accusation would need to show specifically what the actual issue is, and a time and place (case/person) it happened to and then show it is a systemic issue, not a single occurrence that will unfortunately happen simply because humans are running the program and even with checks and balances, somebody will make a mistake and it will go un checked.
A follow up question.. Do you KNOW what the QMP process is? Starting with who decides the criteria to be put before the board to the criteria announcement though the board actions, selection, and then the methods of redress the selected NCO has should they feel they were selected incorrectly... After researching all of that.. Do you still feel your question is valid? Again that's not a finger to the chest.. just a question....If you still feel you posed question is valid, ie the system needs policing.. what do you propose?

SGM Erik Marquez - SMG you pose some great questions that I do not have an answer for such as who selects and how they determine criterias for QMP, I have a general understanding. But to find those answers I suggest individuals in leadership positions (Staff) CSM and LTC for example should brief and familiarize their troops with the process. My question was also posed in the content of "leadership" identifying individuals over bad evaluations, no Art !5, GOMAR, but yet the ones imposing punishment or selection for separations are the same categorized leadership recently exposed for committing adultery, embezzlement, Col kissing spouses during ceremonies, etc. Yet they can retire. Forced to retire is their punishment. So yes I still ask who's policing those doing the policing.

SFC Espi Espi - All valid wants for information and expectations of your leaders.

MAJ Ken Landgren - " some will never see it coming."

Sir, frankly.... Then they were not looking.. likely the same mentality that put them in the center mass block or below more than a few times, the same attitude that EARNED them a slot before a QMP board. All that said,,,, as I've mentioned in a few response now,, even the best system, the most planned and perfected one will capture a few that deserve a second chance.. and I don't like that.. But I don't have a better plan either.... one that address the hard requirement. Please remember the service chiefs do not have an unlimited budget to address the ORDER they were handed.. cut the numbers.. do that without spending more of your budget because that is what we must have to continue the fight.
So if you Wish for a reality without QMP to cut the force, your fight is with the POTUS and congress ..and that I'll stand with you on.

SGM Erik Marquez - I agree no system is perfect.

SFC Karen Lassiter - Have you been QMP because of the numbers game?

Sir, no I was not QMPd.

I saw a similar situation with a female SSG on Battalion extra duty when I pulled Staff Duty. That same year the list for SFC came out and she was on the list and subsequently got promoted. Just shook my head and wondered how that could be possible.. I guess there were more to the story.

Yes, I agree with you. As NCOs we know we need to act professional on and off duty, our actions and choices can hurt the force in many ways. What do you think of these NCOs only getting a severance package and not a retirement after serving 15 plus years?

That's how other jobs work as well. For *most* in the Army, their job isn't any more demanding than their civilian counterparts. I've seen a lot of fraud, waste, and abuse by SNCOs doing things just because they could. Where else do you get a retirement after 15 years?

SGM (Join to see) - you don't get a retirement after 15 years. Unless things have changed drastically in the 2.5 years since I retired, the retirement requirement is 20 years of active federal service. They may institute a 15 year retirement on very rare occasions, but it is not the norm.

SSG Stacy Carter - I understand that, I was responding to SFC Aaron Patrick.

Some oxygen thieves want to be QMP'd so they qualify to receive severance pay GySgt Carl Rumbolo. I believe that if a Soldier is passed over for promotion three times that they should be considered for separation. Of course there are mitigating factors whereby many will be retained bases on promotions...some MOS's for what ever reason are impossible to promoted in...this is why QSP and affording other options such as reclassification are great alternatives...raters, senior raters, reviewers need to take a hardline and be objective in evaluating the Soldiers they are charged with providing purpose, motivation, and direction by teaching, coaching, and mentoring them in that much of a Soldiers success is as a result of who they are led by...

SSG(P) Joshua Degraw it's a sad day when I see a fellow Drill Sergeant refer to military rank by pay grade Battle. So were you an E-4, SPC, or CPL...