Is QMP the right or just answer for those selected that have 16 or 17 years? The past month has been rough for many senior NCOs.

2016-01-12T07:48:23-05:00

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jan 12 at 2016 7:52 AM

2016-01-12T07:52:46-05:00

Reading the article I just did on what the QMP board this year was looking at, sorry, I have no issue in general. Might a few get caught up, some guy fresh off the block that joined for the wrong reasons so earned an ART 15 for being dumb (drunk at PT, brought a legal girlfriend in to a barracks room, spouted off to the wrong person) but after that first tour of duty, found the path for serving for his country, his buddies and yes of course for himself along the way... Might that guy get caught up and need to submit reasons of mitigation to the board?? Yes and there is a process for that. Sadly it's true, some that should have had qualifying reason for inclusion in this board do not.. lucky, crappy CoC and they did not follow though.. what have you... but if you have 10 job slots and twenty applicants.. lets face it your going to cut the pool down by obvious discriminators first. If out of the 20 only two have a felony arrest record (CM conviction) you drop him and now you have only 19 to look at.. of 19 only three have been fired for cause ... you know darn well your going to drop them from consideration.. ect ect...

Response by CPT Mark Gonzalez made Jan 12 at 2016 8:08 AM

2016-01-12T08:08:12-05:00

It is a sad day when you cut them off at 15+ without TERA.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 8:22 AM

2016-01-12T08:22:12-05:00

By regulation, if you have17y 9m TIS by the time the QMP result notifications come out, your good to stay till 20.....I will have 17y 7m....my answer to this would be too personal.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 8:29 AM

2016-01-12T08:29:03-05:00

Yes, it's absolutely the right answer. We as SNCOs are charged with ensuring the right leaders are in the right positions, even if that position is out of the Army. Thanks for your service, time to do something else.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 8:40 AM

2016-01-12T08:40:33-05:00

I don't really disagree with QMP as a whole. I think their screening process is done with a very broad brush. A lot of the people identified were due to a very small indiscretion which will now take an immense amount of time to remedy. What I really have a problem with is the dismantling of our military at all levels. We are stripping ourselves down to a skeleton crew. It isn't a new concept, Bill Clinton did the same thing in the 90s and we felt the pain on September 11, 2001. I'm afraid we will see the same thing again in three or four years. We will go back to lowering standards and mass recruitment to fight a war.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 8:43 AM

2016-01-12T08:43:21-05:00

I think it sucks, but we all knew when we signed up that we could not do this job eternally and it has to come to an end. I think it's reasonable and it's not like you are being tossed out to the street with zero options. The bottom line if you were successful and good at your job in uniform you should not have a problem achieving the same success out of uniform.

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 8:53 AM

2016-01-12T08:53:33-05:00

It's time to move on for alot of SNCOs. If you have a MSG that had the time in service of 22 to 25 years. I'm sorry pal but your not going to get promoted and now your just holding up promotion for the next SNCO. Thanks for your service and move out. Trust me, when it my time to move out. I will pack my ruck and step. Some people just need that little nudge.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 8:59 AM

2016-01-12T08:59:13-05:00

I would like to say that having gone through this and not being allowed to continue to serve, you may want to look at exactly what each Soldier did. One Article 15 in a 19 year career should not end it. A zero defect Army is impossible. I am not bitter, I loved my service and would do it again. However there was a time when you could make one mistake and recover from it. That is no longer and it is sad.

Response by SSG Kelly Ferguson made Jan 12 at 2016 9:14 AM

2016-01-12T09:14:55-05:00

Yes it is I think it should start at 5 yrs because this is a profession and a job this is a life not at way of life

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 9:23 AM

2016-01-12T09:23:00-05:00

I don't know an answer. But, when I was forced out on a board never held before in the hisotry of the Air Force, I went to everyone in an effort to make it on the next round. Every expert went first to my command picture. A three star general told me he know of folks eliminated because they had an oak leaf turned the wrong way on his ribbons.

I am not bitter and I was lucky to salvage a retirement even though I had to wait until I was 60 to draw pay.

But, isn't having an oak leaf cluster on backwards a great excuse to end one's career with no retirement? Frankly it is not right.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 9:30 AM

2016-01-12T09:30:07-05:00

Is QMP the right answer...I would have to go with no. The reason I feel this way is because it's affecting Soldiers and their Family. The Soldier did not promote him/her selves, they were selected by a board after meeting the criteria set. When it comes down to it...we as leaders forget that Soldiers, NCOs and Officers are all human and will make mistake(s). All of the technological advances our society has made hinders the human connections that were once prevalent in our lives. The lack of proper teaching, coaching and mentoring to be an effective (mature) leader has faded away, but in my honest opinion this is what we need to bring back instead of just dismissing Soldiers.

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Jan 12 at 2016 9:30 AM

2016-01-12T09:30:40-05:00

Sounds like the Armies way of drawing down. The sad part about it many NCO's that are real close to retirement might get caught up in this and leave the Army with no benefits!

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Jan 12 at 2016 9:50 AM

2016-01-12T09:50:42-05:00

I believe that these boards are necessary, but the means used to get to the end result is what I question. A mistake in your current rank? I know it's not that simple, but if you took every Soldier, NCO and Officer and lined them up and asked "who has not stepped on his/her crank at some period in their career take one step forward". All you would have left are either liars, or people still in MEPS or Reception. Weeding out the bad is one thing, but from what I've been reading on here and other sites, it's a "clique system". If you CoC likes you, they'll fight harder to keep you, and if you're not someones "favorite" then you're gone. I hope it's just upset NCO's that are saying that, but some of the ranks aren't some Staff Sergeant's who's bitter, these are the top 3 and many are saying the same thing. I know we need to thin the herd, but at least Clinton gave them a "reward" for punching out early, and many jumped on it. I'd bet lunch to anyone here if that was offered now, a fair number of NCO's and Officers would see the writing on the wall and voluntarily leave with a reduced retirement, than leave in debt and not even know it's not their faults yet. My biggest issue with this is the loss of experience. Not so much battlefield experience, but the intangible experience that cannot be "shared" or rank would be lost, or the Garrison Army that MANY in today's units never knew. They hear stories of it, but don't really know it. It's those intangible experiences that are going to be needed soon and there will be no one to show them.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 10:33 AM

2016-01-12T10:33:35-05:00

Start at the top and work your way down for QMP, how many seniors are out there with no hope of advancement. In my career field we have no CSMs just SGMs and we have 9 of them and only 5 allocated slots. Uh

Response by SSG Leevon Leggins II made Jan 12 at 2016 10:53 AM

2016-01-12T10:53:58-05:00

This is definitely a question has multiple answers and aproaches that will all lead to the same conclusion. I say yes and no

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 10:57 AM

2016-01-12T10:57:46-05:00

My last reserve unit has an E-7 in it who's been an E-7 for a LONG time. I joined that unit in 2004 as an E-4 and he was an E-7 then. QMP is 100% necessary and I hope it is applied to the guard and reserve as well. These squatters are holding up slots and it is VERY annoying. It's probably a HUGE reason why I can't make E-7!!!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 11:12 AM

2016-01-12T11:12:23-05:00

If your pending a QMP for separation, the one piece of advice I have for you is to go do a MEB, especially if you have some issues related to service. If you have Soldiers that are going to take your slots through an MEB, then so be it. Soldiers have given valuable time to the service in, what is typically their best years for employment and education, so why not let them sit on your books a bit longer to have something to separate with.
You have to look at the big picture of the Soldier, and not forget about the families and the individual.
Remember these could be the nay-sayers when the recruiters hit the ground for the next wars.

Response by SFC Terry Murphy made Jan 12 at 2016 12:53 PM

2016-01-12T12:53:12-05:00

I remember 2 different soldiers (both SSG/E-6) being QMPed. One had a couple DUIs and didn't fight it, the other was a female that had a recent DUI in her records. She appealed and was allowed to stay in the Army. Funny thing was that the very next year she was promoted to E-7. Not good enough to remain in the Army one year and then so good she gets promoted the next!

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 1:33 PM

2016-01-12T13:33:13-05:00

I believe that as seniors we should have to convince a board every two years why we should be retained. Those 'interviews' should start as soon as you're promoted into the senior ranks. We are serving at the will of the American people, and their expectation should be that they get the best their money can buy. If every two years we have to compete for our jobs (not unprecedented...the active National Guard has a board every three years) then perhaps people will be motivated to perform at a higher level. There are too many seniors preaching one thing, and practicing another.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 2:08 PM

2016-01-12T14:08:11-05:00

I know the Army isn't doing this on a case by case situation, but I feel like they should.

Sometimes the NCO's that look good on paper are that way because they're looking out for themselves and no one else; sometimes NCO's that look bad on paper are that way because they choose common sense and welfare of their soldiers over blanketed regs and rules.

Of course that isn't always the case, but I see the system working the opposite way it should in some cases. I don't have a fix action though, so I guess it's all we've got for the moment.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 12 at 2016 2:11 PM

2016-01-12T14:11:57-05:00

When I read about QMP I am sad we don't have the decency to let them retire or retire at a lesser amount. They gave us their best years and plans of retirement with their families. This reminds me of what we did with the war dogs, disregarded after their best years were finished.

Response by CW3 Jim Norris made Jan 12 at 2016 5:13 PM

2016-01-12T17:13:38-05:00

For 16 years you where 'acceptable' for service.....and now you're not - really? I saw it happen in the roll back after Vietnam and then after the Berlin Wall came down...and now, well we just don't need 'Tommie' any more.......these honorable men and women deserve better......

Response by GySgt Carl Rumbolo made Jan 12 at 2016 8:57 PM

2016-01-12T20:57:35-05:00

So being a dumb ole jarhead, i got curious after reading this thread, went and dug up what I could in QMP - it appears all the service branches have something similar - we also see it in the civilian sector, and it's significantly quicker than the QMP process.

I am sure some good soldiers get caught up in the process but there are a lot of folks holding slots and clogging up promotions for other folks. As some have noted, if you have been stuck in the same grade for 10 years, and there is no reasonable shot at promotion - move on before some one moves you.

It appears if you are retirement eligible you can still retire. For folks who aren't retirement eligible, that is a problem- you usually get some sort of separation pay in civilian jobs past a certain level. Not the best thing, but needed

Response by SSG Thomas Gallegos made Jan 12 at 2016 9:59 PM

2016-01-12T21:59:45-05:00

I think it can be good but at the same time I think it's a "cheaper" way for the Army/DoD to get many seniors out earlier. Less retirement percentage.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jan 12 at 2016 11:41 PM

2016-01-12T23:41:23-05:00

Fairness is never a consideration. Always remember the Army is huge, and is designed to replace you, me, and everyone else. QSP, QMP, SERB etc are all tools used to reduce excess personal levels to authorized levels. This current downsizing effort has been going on since 2010, and has been rough for senior NCOs and many officers too.

The Army ebbs and flows with the situation around the world. I saw the Army go from over 780k, after Desert Storm, to around 480k, and we stayed there til 911. We ramped up to over 575k, and now we are the downside again.....

In 1940 the Army was around 270k, by 1945 it was over 8.6 Million... By 1950... 500k...

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004598.html

Active Duty Military Personnel, 1940–2011

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2016 1:27 PM

2016-01-13T13:27:05-05:00

This is why I implore the Military to take a stand. It is time to protect each other, unless what is done is illegal. But let's stop kow-towing to those who dislike us. We need to put our feet down and resist these driveby posts mean to divide us. There are, I believe, stirrers in our midst. While I will not list names publically I am on to them and will let people know through emails.
And only to the people I know. I have noticed that certain, unverified members, showing up whenever certain topics are broached. As a Meteorologist, I do observe and keep in mind, what I have seen and I believe, we military, put our collective feet down.

So, no matter what, do not agree with the stirrers, no matter what.

Response by SFC Espi Espi made Jan 16 at 2016 1:42 AM

2016-01-16T01:42:45-05:00

Ive read that it is a good tool, etc. The entire Army system in my opinion is a great tool, even better, it's a perfect system, but even the greatest tools and best systems if not used properly or administered correctly it's worthless. we know that E-8-E9, CW4-CW5, and O5 and above do nothing especially during deployments but yet get promoted off it and receive awards un-merited, the burden of doing a lot falls on a few. That few after much sacrifice are the ones being crucified by these QMP. O4 and below are the victims of this so called "good tool", OER and NCOER are a good tool not used correctly, the height and weight standards is a great tool but not used properly, reduction boards are a great tool rarely used. QMP these CW4 and CW5 that do no work or PT, an NCO can do their meetings, QMP those MSG and SGM that have 25-35 years of service, but are no longer serving, the current QMP and how its being used and who are the main target is not the right answer. Only the 2% that serves and sacrifice for our nation isn't worthy of a second chance. Discusting.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2016 4:16 PM

2016-01-26T16:16:39-05:00

Depending on the reason a soldier is being looked at for QMP could be a just reason. I was actually denied continued service and I disagree with the process of my discontinued service. It was said that I violated the buddy system in recruiting. I was accused by my former 1SG, that sexually harassed my wife a couple of months prior. I was accused of being with a female alone. The buddy system states that if you are with the opposite sex you either have to have a qualifying person present or you have to be in a qualifying public place i.e. school, restaurant, or shopping mall. The 1SG saw both people and acknowledge both people. The male applicant decided to walk to a store right across the street. Me as a senior NCO knew I couldn't be alone in my office or my GOV decided because my office was in a qualified public place (shopping mall) we would wait outside until the other applicant came back. FYI there were plenty of adults outside of this shopping mall. To make a long story short I received a gomor. Both applicants where interviewed and wrote statements on my behalf. When I asked how did I violate the policy it was said the female should've walked to the store with the male. When I showed that I followed the regulation word for word it was said that we still feel you violated the policy somehow. I don't think that's worth 21 years in the Army with never having my integrity questioned. Yet I see soldiers allowed to continue service with a DUI, multiple DUI's in a single year, being intoxicated while in a NCOES school, and adultry. I have an idea of how they are looking at packets, but something isn't right.

Response by SSG Ronald Colwell made Feb 18 at 2016 9:43 PM

2016-02-18T21:43:29-05:00

I had read an article a few years back about QMP, there was this captain who received his notice after redeploying he was on orders and his household goods were already packed up and sent, along with family, and the ARMY said sorry thanks for serving but we don't need you anymore, only gave him 4 days to out process, QMP is just a fancy acronym for downsizing instead of letting them go a few more years , and get retirement pay. It's not really a person thing it's about budgets

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2016 1:22 PM

2016-04-25T13:22:20-04:00

The QMP process is not without its faults. I have witnessed more than a few NCOs that passed through the process unscathed who definitely shouldn't have. I've also seen many good NCOs notified this year due to one bad NCOER in their OMPF. We all know that people are sometimes put into a unit with toxic leadership. In those cases specifically, it is unfortunate for the Soldier and their family.

Let us not forget that in the mid 90's the Army was downsized with much less emotion and care for the Soldier. Ask anyone that was around after the Gulf War. In comparison, I feel that QMP / QSP in an improvement but we aren't quite there.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2016 12:48 AM

2016-05-14T00:48:27-04:00

I think not.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2017 10:37 AM

2017-01-26T10:37:04-05:00

I believe that it is a good thing, but only because I have met a lot of Senior Ncos that are just sticking around to collect a pay check and don't really contribute, and do not have a chance for promotion any more. I feel for the families but it isn't about them or me it is about the whats best for the Army and young blood needs to be promoted and carry on. I am a fast tracker for my MOS and that could be a downfall later, but that is up to me and my performance.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2017 12:59 PM

2017-04-12T12:59:16-04:00

Sad fact, a lot of Soldiers are being wrongfully selected for QMP. The reasons is somewhat obvious. It is being used as a retention tool and regulations are being ignored to push a hidden agenda. The awkward thing is there are numerous of Soldiers that have submitted legitimate complaints and appeals against abusive leaders. I'm sure it's pretty common to know of leaders that are selected for QMP that shed light on leaders failing to uphold regulations and standards. The quickest way to get QMP'd is to report wrong doing of leaders especially those in groups like the Freemasons, Knights of Columbus, or Greek frats/sorority. Fact, in a television news segment a comment was made that states we can not track the Soldiers that are being QMP'd in my (Maury's voice).. that was a lie. If anyone has a clue on how EMILPO works they know for a fact you can not only verify the number of Soldiers selected for QMP you also can filter them by race which will possibly look very awkward. If the Soldiers that failed height and weight and PT test were handled properly we wouldn't have to resort to using a retention tool that's not a retention tool.