Is plagiarism ever ok in the military?

2016-07-05T14:39:25-04:00

Had a soldier get in trouble for disrespecting a NCO and his corrective training was to write a 1000 word essay on the definition of disrespecting a NCO, the effects of disrespecting a NCO, and the legal ramifications of said actions. The soldier turned in a word for word document you can find on the internet. 100% plagiarized. Any thoughts? Any words of advice of my next course of action?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 2:45 PM

2016-07-05T14:45:55-04:00

That's a good question because we recycle SOPs all the time, if that's the same thing though

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 2:50 PM

2016-07-05T14:50:01-04:00

If the soldier did not take the punishment of an essay seriously then it should not be an option, go for something more serious, like a hands-on project. Maybe have them give a presentation, or clean the barracks, or pull duties - whatever fits best.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 2:51 PM

2016-07-05T14:51:17-04:00

No. Not okay. His task was to WRITE the essay. Not to find one. I'm going to assume that there was a 4856 on the issue (which dictated the essay as a corrective action). Following that, in place of a close-out, should be another 4856 outlining the un-sat behavior. This is two negative counselings for, realistically, one issue. One more, and that's grounds for an Article 15 for Patterns of Misconduct. However, if you want to avoid hamstringing this kid, I would suggest simply writing the second counseling, assign him a 2,000 word essay and give him a 3-day deadline. If he cannot complete the assignment, then he has had his chance at redemption and the Article 15 is both warranted and expected for impartiality.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 2:51 PM

2016-07-05T14:51:34-04:00

Where and when did these essays become a good idea for corrective training? Do you want to develop Soldiers for their career or, just for the month

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 2:54 PM

2016-07-05T14:54:36-04:00

There are no set regulations that I can find about plagiarism in the Army. And, I am guessing that there were no set parameters given to the SM about this assignment in regards to plagiarism. Perhaps, as a recommendation, have the Soldier redo the essay and set the guidelines of using their own words and cite any and all sources used for the essay. This way, if it is handed in again and still blatantly obvious for plagiarism, then counsel them on failure to follow the orders of NCO.

Response by CPT Mark Gonzalez made Jul 5 at 2016 2:55 PM

2016-07-05T14:55:15-04:00

It depends on what you are trying to accomplish. I hope he did more than write an essay for disrespecting an NCO.
Recommend a new counseling to explain your intent and dictate original content. Specifically spell out that plagiarism is not authorized and give him resources on how to use citations. The new product will show how much he does or does not care and you can adjust fire from there. I have always been a lot nicer to people when I feel they have a good heart. So I would adjust this advice based on your impression of the why he did this.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 2:57 PM

2016-07-05T14:57:45-04:00

Did you express said Soldiers boundaries? Or is it just understood that he will not copy and paste? With counselings, you must be very specific with the plan of action. Soldiers are clever. Think like a Soldier, if you told me I had to "write" an essay I would write it. If you said you will "do" an essay, I'm gonna copy and paste. Your plan of action should include detail by detail i.e. Typed, single space, no copy and paste, APA format.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jul 5 at 2016 3:09 PM

2016-07-05T15:09:29-04:00

I assume your directions were to WRITE an essay as opposed to PROVIDE an essay?

If he merely PROVIDED an essay, then he failed to accomplish the task given, and further counselling is warranted.

On the larger subject of Plagarism and Academic Honesty. Passing off work that he did not complete as his own highlights Ethics and Integrity violations, possibly needing additional corrective action.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 3:54 PM

2016-07-05T15:54:22-04:00

We as NCOs, especially Team Leaders and Squad Leaders have a duty to coach and mentor the young Soldiers under the command of our Lawful Orders. We should also ensure to do this at our level whenever possible. Clearly this is a troubled young Soldier. First, you need to counsel the Soldier in writing on what he was instructed to do and what he failed to do; including what additional articles of the UCMJ he violated. Make sure to include the magic bullet. However, at the same time I would use verbal counseling to enhance the written counseling and show him the possible positive outcomes. Once this is done I would keep the counseling in my Leader's Book. I would not pass it up the Chain of Command until you have significant proof that you are unable to get through to the Soldier without assistance from higher. Young Soldiers that are troubled usually feel pressure when the Chain of Command gets involved and they shut down in regards to opening up to professional development. This is why being a Team Leader or Squad Leader is the most difficult job, but the most important job in the Army. Without you there is no order and morale can quickly go down or up with your influence alone. If you need more specific assistance feel free to message me and I will help.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 4:19 PM

2016-07-05T16:19:31-04:00

SGT Parker, in my mind assigning a Soldier a 1000 word essay is an easy way for you to take the Soldier's time without investing any of your own time in the process. There are many variables to this that are not stated though (how new is the Private, is this a first offense, level of disrespect, etc.). Rather than assigning an essay try investing some time to teach the Soldier on how to properly conduct a block of instruction, and then have him educate the rest of the Team/Squad/Platoon on the punitive articles of the UCMJ, specifically Articles 91&92, the max effective punishments of a courts martial for each, and the max effective punishments under Article 15 given by Company, Field, or Strategic Level Commanders.

Response by SGT Joseph Smith made Jul 5 at 2016 5:50 PM

2016-07-05T17:50:37-04:00

Sigh.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jul 5 at 2016 6:06 PM

2016-07-05T18:06:24-04:00

The men and women of the United States Military are adults who are expected to carry out the combat policy decisions of the officials elected by the people. We are not young impressionable children.

Write an Essay?! Really?!! An Essay?!!! Any soldier that leaves boot camp without understanding what is disrespect, is a category IV dum dum who has no business in the service. What Dr. Spock reading, Kumbaya singing, everybody gets a participation ribbon, non-warrior academic came up with essays for soldiers? Disrespect of the Chain-of-Command is, was, and always be a put it in your SRB offense. You get one bite at that apple, the second time we screw up your life with a less than honorable discharge.

I weep for America.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 7:51 PM

2016-07-05T19:51:05-04:00

Plagiarism is just as bad as disrespecting an NCO. When the soldier committed the act of plagiarism he or she broke the army values of integrity, and respect. Disrespecting an NCO or superior officer is wrong but the larger problem and one that should be more of a concern is the soldier's lack in integrity, because if he takes the easy way out and as carelessly as he or she did then where does it stop? Also what kind of message does that give hoe his or her peers? If nothing is done then peers will look at the situation and say they can do the same and in the end all respect can be lost. This is a situation that needs to be stopped and corrected before it gets worse. Good luck!

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jul 5 at 2016 8:35 PM

2016-07-05T20:35:23-04:00

as asked... the answer is yes, even encouraged.
A policy on Motorcycle mentorship written at CORPS level is BEST plagiarized when the DIV leader writes thier version, and then specifics as needed added.
An order for a recurring event be it Div run or annual gunnery that worked well, was complete, concise easy to understand and well executed without rescinds or FRAGOS should be plagiarized next time then updated as needed.

NO plagiarism is not ok with the stated or implied task is to CREATE a document,or written product.
As the situation you detailed the event that SM did not write a response he supplied one.

Response by CPL Jay Strickland made Jul 5 at 2016 8:50 PM

2016-07-05T20:50:12-04:00

It appears the solider does not wish to complete corrective training as he is actively avoiding corrective training by copying and pasting. A summarized 15 appears in order.

Response by SPC John Louiso made Jul 5 at 2016 10:17 PM

2016-07-05T22:17:08-04:00

NEVER!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 11:45 PM

2016-07-05T23:45:33-04:00

Plagiarize the last successful field grade ART15 and hope it sticks. Sounds like a great waste of resources.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jul 6 at 2016 1:06 AM

2016-07-06T01:06:29-04:00

I narrated the "Change of Responsibility" for the 29th Infantry Regiment, Fort Benning, Georgia in late 2004-early 2005. I will not name names here BUT if you look up who retired at Fort Benning as the CSM of the 29th Infantry Regiment, it was only one guy.

I, as the Narrator was at one podium and the speakers were at another one. The retiring CSM took the podium and started out giving Douglas MacArthur's Old Soldiers Never Die speech, but rather than quoting the General he spoke of when he "Took the oath on the Great Plain at Fort Jackson...(The "Great Plain" is at West Point) He said that He fondly reflected upon the words of a campfire song popular in the barracks when he was a private...( not too many campfire songs in the 1970's at Fort Jackson, but who knew, it was popular in the late 1800s when MacArthur was a Cadet) "Old Soldiers Never Die, they just fade away, so now I as the old Soldier in the ballad, just fade away....." I made sure my mike was off, stepped back from the podium and moved where I could not be seen and laughed my ass off at him. I finished the ceremony and then at the reception I heard both the Honorary Regimental Commander and the Serving Regimental Commander tell him just what an idiot he was. I give it to him, if you are going to steal a speech, steal a good one. There are SEVERAL NCOs on Rally Point that were there and we had a couple good strong ones after that was over..... SGM Private RallyPoint Member , LTC Daniel Rogne , COL Johnny Powers

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2016 2:48 AM

2016-07-06T02:48:09-04:00

Next time have that Soldier hand write the essay. Less likely to copy and well even if they do copy they still half to take the time to physically write it out. That is how I avoid that problem. As for next course of action add another essay for plagiarism.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2016 8:17 AM

2016-07-06T08:17:26-04:00

Give the Soldier an option to redo the essay or have it stapled to the counseling as evidence showing a pattern of his lack of character.

Response by MSG Mike Fitzpatrick made Jul 6 at 2016 10:30 AM

2016-07-06T10:30:39-04:00

If you, or another NCO seriously had a soldier write a 1,000 word essay about disrespecting a NCO, I can easily see why that soldier would disrespect the assigning NCO. That is one of the lamest most stupid things I have ever heard a NCO do. The United States Army is NOT high school where you have a misbehaving child write, "I will not talk back" 100 times on the white/black/green board. If that is the best you or another NCO can come up with, it's time to swap the U.S. Army nameplate for Walmart nameplate. Your soldiers should respect you for your conduct and actions, not by making them write essays. If the NCO didn't give the soldier explicit instructions on the production of the "essay," the NCO loses. In this case, the NCO lost when the essay was assigned. Soldiers have volunteered to give up their lives, not be assigned meaningless crap to do. MAJ Ballinger hasn't got a clue, and I wonder if he's ever assigned a soldier an essay for punishment. My advice to the NCO in question is to treat his/her soldiers with respect and dignity and he/she will probably be treated with respect and dignity in return. If not, then informal/formal counseling and ultimately UCMJ action is required. Essays have no identifiable place in the USA.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Jul 6 at 2016 11:28 AM

2016-07-06T11:28:15-04:00

No, plagiarism is never ok, but suspect the response from this soldier is a fallback to experiences while going through the education system. Today it is almost expected that a student will go to the internet to research and write any assignment. Teachers can usually recognize plagiarism, but not always; if the soldier got away with it in school he/she is certainly going to do it when given a rather unconventional corrective action in the military. Not entirely sure what was going through the mind of the NCO who issued the requirement. There has been disrespect towards NCOs for as long as there have been armies and this is the first time I've ever heard of such a crazy corrective action. Counseling, directing some review of regulations and follow-up monitoring seems way more appropriate.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2016 11:56 PM

2016-07-06T23:56:09-04:00

Article 15. Violation of Article 134 of the UCMJ. No F-ing Excuses.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2016 3:23 AM

2016-07-07T03:23:44-04:00

From a military standpoint, it's clear that the soldier didn't actually do the work he was told to do. That warrants corrective action in itself.
As an individual with an English degree, I also believe that what he did was stealing. Plagiarism is a huge problem within higher education and the consequences are often detrimental to your education depending on the severity.
Although not everyone in the military focuses on those technical areas, he could very well receive corrective actions based on ignoring an order as well as committing theft. If you were to use this corrective action again, you could reiterate the fact that it has to be written in their own words and if anything is found plagiarized, he or she would need to write it again along with any other continued action, such as a counseling, you deem necessary for the disobedience.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 11 at 2016 11:37 AM

2016-07-11T11:37:23-04:00

Did the counseling say "no plagiarizing"? On a counseling statement, NOTHING is implied. You must be clear and concise in what the plan of action is. Keep handing out pointless corrective training and you will get these kinds of results.

How about you form a plan of action that is actually designed to fix the problem at hand. Essays are the most overused and least effective form of corrective training. Are you an english major? What rubric did you use to grade the essay? What qualifications do you have to grade?

Unless they have issues writing counselings, awards, NCOER's, etc. and need help in the writing department, then okay, otherwise, do some REAL corrective training/actions.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 11 at 2016 7:01 PM

2016-07-11T19:01:06-04:00

Absolutely - try writing operation orders, quarterly/yearly training guidance etc.

Response by SPC George Adkins made Jul 11 at 2016 8:19 PM

2016-07-11T20:19:06-04:00

Promote above peers.

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Jul 14 at 2016 7:57 PM

2016-07-14T19:57:17-04:00

THERE IS PUNISHED UNDER ART 15 VIOLATION 92 AND 107 UNDER UCMJ.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 15 at 2016 4:07 PM

2016-07-15T16:07:57-04:00

I feel that you could have just given him a counciling and said to not do it again. Having your soldiers do an essay does not solve the problem lbvs. Take some money from em, give em an AWOL, do something that will actually make them not want to do it again.
Signed
SPC

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2016 9:51 AM

2016-07-16T09:51:34-04:00

First, the Army thrives on plagiarism. I doubt there's been a truly original memo, brief, PowerPoint, or presentation created in 30 years. Everyone just changes the names, dates, and so forth. But the issue is that this task was to make the Soldier learn of the possible consequences. If the Soldier read it and can explain it, as well as not make sure not to repeat the offense, I wouldn't worry too much that he copied it.

Response by Sgt Christian ORourke made Jul 17 at 2016 1:55 PM

2016-07-17T13:55:58-04:00

What world do we live in where you have to write an essay for disrespecting an NCO, I would have been beat to shit, and back. Really, is this still High School, come new type community college. You are an NCO, deal with him or not. It is obvious you are not. You can not learn RESPECT by writing an essay on it. However, you can run the living shit out of him/her on an O-Course. The idea is that you run with him, never show him you are tired and that you can do it all day long, he will break.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2016 7:00 PM

2016-07-17T19:00:16-04:00

This Soldier should get a superior rating on any AER (DA Form 1059) in research methods! This is not corrective training, is this what has replaced counseling, writing essays? If you want to help the soldier then have them develop a POI for a class and a slideshow to go along with it that can allow for a moment of proper training.

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2016 2:05 AM

2016-07-18T02:05:43-04:00

Plagiarism is never okay.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 16 at 2016 5:47 PM

2016-11-16T17:47:52-05:00

if you want something done do it the military way not with this dumb 100 word essays

Response by PO3 Christopher Jonah Nelson made Nov 16 at 2016 5:52 PM

2016-11-16T17:52:52-05:00

This young soldier obviously has not learned his lesson if he thinks that what he did fails to qualify as further disrespecting an NCO. He needs further counseling. If the E5's mess isn't enough to set him straight, then it's time for an E6's mess, and then a Chief's mess. If that fails, NJP is called for.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 16 at 2016 9:52 PM

2016-11-16T21:52:26-05:00

Most of the joint regs are copied straight from the MC.
There is a difference between using what's available and appropriate and passing off work as if it's your own effort.

Response by SFC George Smith made Nov 17 at 2016 3:55 AM

2016-11-17T03:55:41-05:00

there is Plagiarism in one form or another throughout the military...
but as to your troop, the issue is whether he was instructed to come up with the essay in his own words or just show with a 1000 words on a piece of paper

Response by SPC Joseph Soto made Feb 19 at 2022 6:04 AM

2022-02-19T06:04:10-05:00

I look at this thread years later and laugh my axx off. What a bunch of pansies. Giving me an essay when I was in the military. Failed leadership in that unit big time hahaha. Now im living my best life honorably. Dont have to deal with NCO's who knew nothing. Thanks Parker and Draper. Losers!

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Feb 19 at 2022 3:22 PM

2022-02-19T15:22:29-05:00

MAJs at the Combined General Staff College will be kicked out of the military for plagiarism. What the soldier did was unethical and implies he did not learn his lesson and he cheated. If you can't trust a soldier, then the professional relationship is hurt. Truth must be paramount in the military because decisions are made based on truths.

Make him write the essay. Perhaps you can make him teach a class on respect in the military.

I told the NCOs soldiers who did the crime but make up excuses would make me very angry. So, mentor that soldier.